GoodGuy
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Joined: 5/17/2006
From: Cologne, Germany
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Neil N
Now the schreck, I found some information in my research that said Hitler almost cancelled production because the accuracy of the weapon was not very good. He was observing a weapons training, and the schreck team only put 3 rockets out of 12 on a stationary target from 100m.
Question is, which version had been tested during that training?
According to what I've read so far, the first version of the Panzerschreck used a 88mm RP-warhead (R.Pz.B.Granate 4332) which could penetrate 60mm armor at 60 degrees. After 2 meters, the grenade traveled with a speed of 105 meters per second.
The second version featured the new protection shield for the gunner and fired the new RPzBGranate [grenade] 4992, which had a range of 180 meters.
The "Waffenamt" (the Wehrmacht's ordnance department) and the troops in the field rejected more than 13% of the Panzerschreck's 4992 grenades, most likely due to quality inconsistency. This could be the reason for the bad results during the training exercises, as the Germans faced various problems during production of the 4992 (design? material quality?).
The Belgian "Blindicide" and the Swiss "Raketenrohr 58/80" were post-war derivates of the Panzerschreck ...
http://www.geocities.com/Augusta/8172/panzerfaust3.htm#RPzB54
An instructor (Swiss Army) stated the following:
"Our regulation state a maximum range of 300 meters, but in NCO school our instructor told us to reduce it to 250 meters max for static targets and 200 for moving targets. (...) A 400m range is right on for engagement of non-moving large targets, such as buildings or pillboxes, against which AT weapons are effective. A 1000m range is reachable only through the use of a parabolic trajectory, and I imagine that more than one round was fired. (...) Parabolic-trajectory firing of the RR80 was not cited in the manual for fighting enemy infantry emplacements (I suspect the tactic went against Wehrmacht doctrine as well and was used by soldiers as an ad hoc alternative to mortar fire) but it was allowed for avalanche detachment. A sight attachment existed which allowed the gunner to properly aim the weapon this way. The engagement drill procedure were still valid with the RR80 10 years ago."
The Wehrmacht ordered additional special targeting devices for the Schrecks as late as February 1945, in order to be able to fire the Schreck from consealed positions/cover (parabolic-trajectory fire) - most likely an early version of the "sight attachment" described by the instructor, but even without this targeting aid, a crack AT soldier should have been able to hit a MOVING target beyond the Waffenamt's suggested max range of 180 meters.
I'd say the Panzerschreck excelled regarding max range (not necessarily accuracy above 200 meters, due to quality inconsistence) and could still penetrate light/medium tanks above the official max range, unlike the zookas. Still, it lacked punch as it could only penetrate armor up to 60 mm. The German soldiers used to overestimate the Schreck, as its impressive look suggested it had kick-ass firepower.
The Panzerfaust was probably the most effective AT weapon (right after AT guns) for the infantry, as the Panzerfaust100m could penetrate up to 200 mm, it had a range of 100 meters. At short ranges, it was pretty much a "fire and forget" - weapon  , as even Hitlerjugend kids (age: 14 - 16) scored various tank kills in Berlin, in close combat (30-40 meters), pretty much instant kills.
The Panzerfaust was harder to handle at medium ranges (above 70 or 80 meters), as the gunner had to use a parabolic "curve" at these relatively low ranges - already, where a Schreck gunner had to use this method only at very long ranges, as described by the instructor quoted above (I guess above 400 meters, although he suggests at ranges around 1000 meters).
I can't do the math for you here, but I'd say the current stats in the game don't reflect the Panzerfaust's deadliness within a range of let's say 30-80 meters, the Panzerschreck's range in the game is ridiculously low, and the Bazookas are still too effective in terms of penetration (that is without me knowing their exact historical penetration values, but i doubt they could knock out a Panther tank easily - which happens sometimes in the game), let alone a KingTiger tank. There are so many reports that Bazookas even bounced off StuG III armors, with the particular German units either retreating or opening fire.
There is a "funny" vet story about a group of GIs stumbling over a StuG III in heavy fog in the Ardennes, they sprint back to their jeep, get the zooka rounds, totally nervous, one guy even drops one round.... lol, then they move back towards the StuG III and fire around 3 rounds at the side, where 2 rounds hit, causing light damage/"scratches" on the plate, 1 round bounces off. The StuG III just pulls back full speed and gets away, without a vital scratch. 
< Message edited by GoodGuy -- 11/26/2008 4:42:19 AM >
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December 22nd, 1944
Bastogne
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