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WaR x Classic CC4

 
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WaR x Classic CC4 - 11/2/2008 11:55:26 PM   
CaptRio

 

Posts: 77
Joined: 10/26/2006
Status: offline 		Im still not quite sure about the diferences between WaR and the classic CC4 that comes with it. Anyone?
Post #: 1
RE: WaR x Classic CC4 - 11/3/2008 12:14:39 AM   
Andrew Williams


Posts: 6116
Joined: 1/8/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Classic 43 maps to Battle on

original graphics/Data etc

WaR 64 maps to battle on the Expanded strat.

New Graphics/Data etc.


I'd recommend WaR and only play Classic for nostalgia.

< Message edited by Andrew Williams -- 11/3/2008 12:15:03 AM >

(in reply to CaptRio)
Post #: 2
RE: WaR x Classic CC4 - 11/14/2008 8:58:07 PM   
KWP

 

Posts: 132
Joined: 1/13/2001
Status: offline 		Does "Classic" come fully patched?

(in reply to Andrew Williams)
Post #: 3
RE: WaR x Classic CC4 - 11/14/2008 9:17:36 PM   
Andrew Williams


Posts: 6116
Joined: 1/8/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline 		what do you mean "fully Patched"


(in reply to KWP)
Post #: 4
RE: WaR x Classic CC4 - 11/14/2008 9:42:49 PM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		Atomic released a patch for CC4 way back in early 2000

Does Classic come fully patched?

-

(in reply to Andrew Williams)
Post #: 5
RE: WaR x Classic CC4 - 11/14/2008 9:45:14 PM   
Andrew Williams


Posts: 6116
Joined: 1/8/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline 		And thye patch addressed what issues?

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 6
RE: WaR x Classic CC4 - 11/14/2008 11:31:26 PM   
KWP

 

Posts: 132
Joined: 1/13/2001
Status: offline 		The patch is for help if you experience a long lag time when saving a game and other minor issues, like the ridiculously large JagdPanzer or the inability to finish a Grand Campaign due to corrupted save games.

http://home.wanadoo.nl/cclinks/cc4.html

(in reply to Andrew Williams)
Post #: 7
RE: WaR x Classic CC4 - 11/14/2008 11:36:45 PM   
Andrew Williams


Posts: 6116
Joined: 1/8/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline 		I think you will find those issues have been addressed


(in reply to KWP)
Post #: 8
RE: WaR x Classic CC4 - 11/15/2008 12:38:37 AM   
KWP

 

Posts: 132
Joined: 1/13/2001
Status: offline 		Here is a more extensive list of what the patch resolved:

What Issues Does the 4.02 Patch Address?
A patch has been created to address many of the post-release issues of Close Combat™: Battle of the Bulge. These issues are listed below. Also, the 4.02 patch can be downloaded from this site. Scroll down to the bottom of this page for the patch.
The list that follows identifies many of the issues that are addressed by the 4.02 Patch.

Game System/TAI

* The American Calliope Rocket Tank can now fire its 75 mm L/40 cannon despite having no rocket ammo.
* Command crews no longer ignore orders after they bail out of their command vehicles.
* SAI controlled units no turn backwards when given a defend command. This was commonly referred to as the "bee dance."
* The number of wrecks allowed on a map has been reduced to fifteen. The previous maximum was thirty.
* Tank hulls will no longer rotate while the gunner is reloading. This will keep tanks from doing "the scissors" and having to waste precious seconds realigning the main gun.
* Guns and vehicles that show on the Battle Group screen and that were placed in one battle in an operation or campaign now return to later battles.
* The issue where an operation or campaign would crash when loading a map that sustained more than the maximum allowed map damage has been resolved. This was also the most common reason for an operation or campaign to crash. Previously "trashed" games can also be loaded.
* Vehicles no longer move back and forth when they are too close to other vehicles.
* The version number now appears on the Main screen.
* Tanks now engage AT guns with their auxiliary weapons even if the main gun becomes disabled.

Net

* International, French and U.S. versions are now compatible.
* When the client flees a truce, the game no longer crashes.
* The issue that caused the host and client to become out-of-sync during campaigns or operations when one side disbanded its troops.

SAI

* Vehicles now take the quickest and easiest path to their destination.
* The special handling for "pathing" near bridges has been removed. This resolves the issue where tanks stall in the middle of a bridge.
* The issue that caused orders between TAI and SAI to become out-of-sync has been resolved.
* SAI is more aggressive.
* Probing units now return enemy fire. This resolves the "crawl of death" condition and provides platoons with some over-watch capabilities.
* Support units, such as AT guns and mortars, no longer wander about the battlefield. (Machine-gun teams will still be cleared for movement if certain conditions are met.)
* Default deployment of units will now face the enemy.
* Calculations regarding "pathing" now address other vehicles.

SLAI

* Overall aggressiveness is increased.
* Battlegroups clear their supply depots on the 4 pm turn, allowing new BG's to enter play.
* Unit Stagnation: The issue where the SLAI would ignore vacant enemy controlled maps has been resolved.
* Reinforcement requests are handled more efficiently during the last day of a campaign or operation.

Art

* The Jadgpanther and Jagdtiger have been scaled down to their appropriate sizes.
* The German 1st and 2nd class Iron Crosses were reordered on the Soldier screen.
* Rank insignia are now consistent on all screens.
* The graphics for the SdKfz 234/1 and SdKfz 234/2 on the Battle group screen are now correct.

Data

* The armor value for the gun shield on the American 57 mm AT gun has been increased. It is now able to withstand rifle fire without exploding.
* The Panzer IVG was changed to a Panzer IVH.
* Terrain data was changed to greatly increase the cover value in the middle of buildings.
* Armor values of the Jumbo Sherman were changed.
* Armor values of the Tiger I were changed.
* Medium range for the American 37 mm gun was changed to 500 meters.
* The force pool for the 1st SS was changed. The Hetzer was removed and the Jagdpanzer IV and Tiger I were added.
* The force pool for FBB removed the Hetzer and added the StuG G.
* The force pool for the 15th PG was altered to give it the Jagdpanzer IV.
* Bazooka maximum range was increased to 300 meters.
* Bazooka teams now have an additional round of HT.
* Various spelling changes were made in German units to make them more grammatically correct.
* A minimum range of 100 meters has been imposed on the U.S. Calliope Rocket Tank.
* Panzerschreck maximum range was increased to 230 meters.

http://support.broderbund.com/fix.asp?isid=14630&prog=1294819002&printer=1

(in reply to Andrew Williams)
Post #: 9
RE: WaR x Classic CC4 - 11/15/2008 4:49:06 AM   
Andrew Williams


Posts: 6116
Joined: 1/8/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline 		A quick scan of the data looks like all the 4.02 patch data was used.

(in reply to KWP)
Post #: 10
RE: WaR x Classic CC4 - 11/15/2008 8:43:24 PM   
KWP

 

Posts: 132
Joined: 1/13/2001
Status: offline 		Good to know. Thanks for looking into it.

(in reply to Andrew Williams)
Post #: 11
RE: WaR x Classic CC4 - 11/16/2008 1:10:47 AM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2614
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline 		Is there any change list from CC4 to WaR?

_____________________________

People shouldn't ask themselves why schools get shoot up.
They should ask themselves why people who finish schools burned out due to mobbing aren't receiving high enough compensations to not seek vengeance.

(in reply to KWP)
Post #: 12
RE: WaR x Classic CC4 - 11/16/2008 1:27:23 AM   
Andrew Williams


Posts: 6116
Joined: 1/8/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline 		It should be standard CC4 but running with the CCe.exe

battles/ops/campaigns data , maps, etc are all cc4 classic.

(in reply to Perturabo)
Post #: 13
RE: WaR x Classic CC4 - 11/16/2008 1:28:44 AM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2614
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline 		I mean what was changed from old CC4 to Re-edition.

_____________________________

People shouldn't ask themselves why schools get shoot up.
They should ask themselves why people who finish schools burned out due to mobbing aren't receiving high enough compensations to not seek vengeance.

(in reply to Andrew Williams)
Post #: 14
RE: WaR x Classic CC4 - 11/16/2008 1:21:48 PM   
Stwa


Posts: 484
Joined: 8/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

I mean what was changed from old CC4 to Re-edition.


Well, lets see, the maps! I think some of the maps were changed.

Oh, and oh ya, the tanks, I think the tanks were changed.

And... hmmm... The interface. The user interface changed.

What else, [thinking], Oh ya, the NAME was changed.

And ... and ... and ... The box art was changed, definately!



(in reply to Perturabo)
Post #: 15
RE: WaR x Classic CC4 - 11/16/2008 7:06:40 PM   
Tejszd

 

Posts: 3437
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline 		For CC4 to WAR the manual lists the bigger changes but it definitely doesn't list them all.

Example the CC5 bugs are not all listed nor are all the real obvious things (for example the stuff stwa listed).

General Improvements Page 13
-The game’s AI in battle performance and vehicle pathing has been improved.
- Battle groups (Armoured, Armoured infantry and Recon) can no longer move when out of fuel
- Battle groups can retreat when routed instead of just disbanding
- The game now provides a sounds volume control
- There are point values for all selected and individual squads displayed to assist in balancing head to head single player battles
- The strategic level has been expanded to 64 maps
- There are now 54 battle groups (up to 64 available to modders)

Mod Maker Improvements Page 83
- Battle group reinforcement can be set by the battle group and for variable number of times
- The data file format has been changed to text file format
- A “Campaign.txt” file has been created to allow editing of previously hard coded campaign settings (for example: air, artillery, mortar, air supply and weather)
- A “Nations.txt” file has been created to allow for multiple nations to be used in the game
- A “Stratmpa.txt” has been created to allow easier editing of the strategic map
- A “Uniforms.txt” file has been created to allow easier editing of soldier colors
- The size of the Scenario Editor strategic map has been increased to display larger strategic maps
- Maximum number of teams has been expanded to 196
- Maximum number of weapons has been expanded to 256
- Map BTD files have been change to a text file format



< Message edited by Tejszd -- 11/16/2008 11:05:39 PM >

(in reply to Stwa)
Post #: 16
RE: WaR x Classic CC4 - 11/16/2008 10:04:06 PM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

I mean what was changed from old CC4 to Re-edition.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Stwa
Well, lets see, the maps! I think some of the maps were changed.

Oh, and oh ya, the tanks, I think the tanks were changed.

And... hmmm... The interface. The user interface changed.

What else, [thinking], Oh ya, the NAME was changed.

And ... and ... and ... The box art was changed, definately!





You got all that wrong. For Classic CC4 nothing was changed.
-




(in reply to Stwa)
Post #: 17
RE: WaR x Classic CC4 - 11/16/2008 10:53:42 PM   
Stwa


Posts: 484
Joined: 8/12/2005
Status: offline 		Your right, I see that NOW. Its been a long week!

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 18
RE: WaR x Classic CC4 - 11/23/2008 4:43:01 PM   
madorosh


Posts: 390
Joined: 3/2/2003
Status: offline 		What I really disliked about CC4 was that the campaign was distressingly dull - often all the fighting took place on the same handful of maps, and it got to a point where you really wanted to lose, and lose hard for a turn or two, just so you could fall back and fight on some different terrain for a change. Has this changed at all in WaR? Does the campaign model still force fights on the same key pieces of terrain, with set-ups in the same general locations, or has a move been made to either randomize this or increase the scope of the maps/missions?

_____________________________

The Tactical Wargamer


(in reply to Stwa)
Post #: 19
RE: WaR x Classic CC4 - 11/23/2008 7:48:20 PM   
Tejszd

 

Posts: 3437
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline 		In the original CC4 you ended up fighting on the Allied re-entry/supply maps. This can still happen in WAR but it is less likely as it is harder to get to those maps as the number of maps has been increased from 43 to 64 maps.

(in reply to madorosh)
Post #: 20
RE: WaR x Classic CC4 - 11/23/2008 7:59:08 PM   
Andrew Williams


Posts: 6116
Joined: 1/8/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline 		I'll double check..but there are more "entry" points as well so dispersing the battles more than in Classic.

Also the the new maps have been enlarged from the size used in Classic cc4 and the entry points on the maps have been given more cover so there is a chance for movement and maneouvre

< Message edited by Andrew Williams -- 11/23/2008 8:00:42 PM >

(in reply to Tejszd)
Post #: 21
RE: WaR x Classic CC4 - 11/25/2008 1:00:49 AM   
madorosh


Posts: 390
Joined: 3/2/2003
Status: offline 		Cool, thanks for the replies.

_____________________________

The Tactical Wargamer


(in reply to Andrew Williams)
Post #: 22
RE: WaR x Classic CC4 - 11/26/2008 12:47:15 AM   
Senior Drill


Posts: 199
Joined: 11/21/2007
From: Quantico
Status: offline 		There are two major and a couple of minor differences between the original CC4 and CC WaR's "classic CC4". All are wonderful in some ways and "grog" unsettling in others.

CC WaR's classic CC4 utilizes an improved CC5 engine along with CC WaR. The battles have the increased AI agressiveness without the "crawl of death" (but still some tactically insane attack and defend behavior). That is one of the major differences. The other is the random deployment from CC5 for single battles. The pet map deploys from the original CC4 only work a percentage of the time and only so-so against the improved AI. On other plays, the deployments zones can be any of the 8 possible positions, which makes "classic CC4" a totally new game compared to the origianl. It's still stock and patched data from the original and not up to Vet BoB mod levels, but the result is a whole new game when compared to the "classic" game. The minor advantages are the ablility to view the enemy BG prior to battle and to also view the enemy stats after the battle. In "classic CC4" you can't edit the enemy or your BG prior to battle as you can in CC WaR.

Compared to "classic CC4", CC WaR steps all that up another level or two. The new data and maps, CC5 style supply requirements, BG edititing, the shifting deploy areas and the revised terrain of the original maps creates quite the challenge against the AI.

H2H is going to be all new to me. I'm a couple of weeks behind the power curve to prepare for a Grand Campaign challenge from mick(XE5). Not looking forward to picking up the tossed glove before I have a better handle on who can now kill what from how far (which is a bit farther, IMHO, than in the original).



_____________________________

C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre.

(in reply to madorosh)
Post #: 23
RE: WaR x Classic CC4 - 11/27/2008 8:04:17 AM   
Ragbag

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline 		Just found out about this release-verrry exciting! Looking forward to H2H campaigning with my CC nemisis/nephew!
Worried about:
1) The arrival of the "Veteran" Shermans (with the little sandbags graphic) totally threw balance out the window, they were unstoppable Panther squashers. We played from both sides and ultimately quit in frustration. ( Don't remember if it was CC4 on CC5 engine or original)
2) The CC5 engine, which ALWAYS corrupted somewhere in the middle of our campaign.
Excited about: Did I hear some kind of retreat option? I miss the ability to bug out off the map edge like in CC3. You need that option! (Shouts: Run away!!!)

(in reply to Senior Drill)
Post #: 24
RE: WaR x Classic CC4 - 11/27/2008 8:14:04 AM   
Andrew Williams


Posts: 6116
Joined: 1/8/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Retreat:

It is not an option as such

but

If you are driven off the map and still control an exit VL to a friendly held but empty map you will retreat the there instead of disbanding as you did in the past.

A much improved mechanic of the game.

(in reply to Ragbag)
Post #: 25
RE: WaR x Classic CC4 - 11/27/2008 6:00:10 PM   
Ragbag

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 12/7/2006
Status: offline 		Way, way better! (Of course "perfect" would be allowing two units to occupy an uncontested map in the tactical screen.)
Anyone have any thoughts on or experience with the veteran Sherman thing?

(in reply to Andrew Williams)
Post #: 26
RE: WaR x Classic CC4 - 11/27/2008 8:17:22 PM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2614
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline 		One thing that would be interesting would be adding a possibility of having up to 4 units on one board and there could be several fights in a row.

_____________________________

People shouldn't ask themselves why schools get shoot up.
They should ask themselves why people who finish schools burned out due to mobbing aren't receiving high enough compensations to not seek vengeance.

(in reply to Ragbag)
Post #: 27
RE: WaR x Classic CC4 - 12/3/2008 11:13:29 PM   
Platoon_Michael


Posts: 1119
Joined: 3/9/2003
Status: offline 		What new editable features are there for Classic CCIV?

(in reply to CaptRio)
Post #: 28
RE: WaR x Classic CC4 - 12/3/2008 11:18:01 PM   
Neil N

 

Posts: 740
Joined: 8/24/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Platoon_Michael

What new editable features are there for Classic CCIV?


Everything that is editable in WaR is editable in Classic CCIV

(in reply to Platoon_Michael)
Post #: 29
RE: WaR x Classic CC4 - 12/4/2008 2:43:26 AM   
crushingleeek_slith

 

Posts: 89
Joined: 11/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

One thing that would be interesting would be adding a possibility of having up to 4 units on one board and there could be several fights in a row.


So I like this idea. For instance at Hosingen, the Germans attacked from the north, east, and south. If the game could allow multiple battle groups to attack one map, that would add an extra dimension to the game. It would also be an easy way (once in place) to incorporate realistic flanking attacks!!!

(in reply to Neil N)
Post #: 30
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