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Pz-IIIj - 10/11/2000 10:59:00 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		its a general rule of thumb that an AFV (or any other armored unit for that matter) that has armor of a single thickness is more sound structurally and resistant to penetration than an equivlent thickness but made up of multiple plates (applique armor) All my references on the Pz-III state that as of the j varient (i think) it had 50mm armor (front) as an integral part of the hull vs previous varients which where 30mm + 30mm Steel panthers series, + Panzer commander have always expressed this as 60mm, but the J varient loses 10mm in the process down to 50mm thus is technically a step back for campaigners (until the j2 series which introduces the long 50mm) this is a hair splitting exerice only, realize that the OOB's must be finalized but of course we are all free to modify to our heart's content for our solo play. I suppose the best solution would be to reduce applique'd AFV's 'effective' thickness to slightly below their actual physical thicknesses to represent but we're probably only talking a few mm here or there. just brainstormin on a Wed.

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- 10/12/2000 10:50:00 PM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		You'll have to wait till Paul V returns and present that one to him. I am nowhere near knowledgeable of these features of the game to comment for you. When he magically reappears, give him a holler via the forum. Let's see what he has to say..WB

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Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

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- 10/13/2000 6:34:00 AM   
Skorpion

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 10/4/2000
Status: offline 		Hey Nik How come we never see you at Warships1 any more? People have been asking about you. (only a BB-nut would know one thick layer is better than two thin) scorpion

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- 10/13/2000 4:39:00 PM   
BA Evans

 

Posts: 250
Joined: 5/25/2000
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Skorpion: Hey Nik How come we never see you at Warships1 any more? People have been asking about you. (only a BB-nut would know one thick layer is better than two thin) scorpion
Why would one thick layer be better than two thinner layers? Isn't that the idea behind modern tank armor? Chobbom, how ever it is spelled?!? BA Evans

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Post #: 4
- 10/13/2000 5:24:00 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Skorpion: [B]Hey Nik How come we never see you at Warships1 any more? People have been asking about you. (only a BB-nut would know one thick layer is better than two thin) a number of reasons, one of which was that i've been spending what little free time i have had here helping support the new and improved Steel Panthers. (now if only i can convince Matrix to overhaul and redo the old Battlecruiser/Warship series of Gary's!) Appreciate the inquiries, i've missed being there. Hoping someday i'll be able to wrap of the BotPS storyline too

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Post #: 5
- 10/13/2000 7:53:00 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by BA Evans: [B] Why would one thick layer be better than two thinner layers? Isn't that the idea behind modern tank armor? Chobbom, how ever it is spelled?!? the idea behind 'spaced armor' is a different concept. In quoting the Pz-IIIj was refering to the strength of the armor at the point of impact in which case if you have to vehicles, one with a single thickness vs another which has an equiv thickness but is made up of smaller plates added together. The one thickness will invariably offer better resistance. with spaced armor your looking at a shell having penetrate multple layers of armors in different locations but each piece of armor is a homogenous plate made up of a single thickness. did that make sense? i probably did'nt explain it too well....its early, and i hav'nt had any coffee

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- 10/13/2000 10:19:00 PM   
Ismael

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 9/12/2000
From: co
Status: offline 		two plates in parallel are weaker than a single plate twice as thick in terms of their ability to widthstand stress (kinetic energy penetrator). this is because the individual plates are allowed to shear somewhat at the interface, resulting in considerable (a factor of 2 for plates allowed to fully shear, but less for the actual pz3j geometry because of the finite unsupported size of the plates). the stress goes as the inverse cube of the unsupported thickness times the half thickness of the plate (for a net effect proportional to the inverse square of the unsupported thickness). bottom line is, because the individual plates are allowed to shear relative to each other, the second plate does not add its full strength to the first. spaced armor works differently. it is designed to protect agains HEAT or other high explosive penetrators by allowing the explotion to dissipate somewhat in the relatively large space between the plates, which allows lateral expansion.

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Post #: 7
- 10/13/2000 10:43:00 PM   
Skorpion

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 10/4/2000
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Nikademus: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Skorpion: [B]Hey Nik How come we never see you at Warships1 any more? People have been asking about you. (only a BB-nut would know one thick layer is better than two thin) a number of reasons, one of which was that i've been spending what little free time i have had here helping support the new and improved Steel Panthers. (now if only i can convince Matrix to overhaul and redo the old Battlecruiser/Warship series of Gary's!) Appreciate the inquiries, i've missed being there. Hoping someday i'll be able to wrap of the BotPS storyline too
Ah, good reason. Hope you've been at least following Letterstime. If not, the HSF is up to something like 10 DN kills while losing 1 pre-D. The GF LOB disengaged, but the HSF LOB pursued and caught them. Koenig just pulled out of the LOB because of severe damage;we may lose her. If you'd like more details, let me know and I'll try to get them to you Mon. Jim's writing is getting better and better, and the co-authors are doing some fantastic stuff.

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Post #: 8
- 10/14/2000 12:13:00 AM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Skorpion: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Nikademus: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Skorpion: [B]Hey Nik
Ah, good reason. Hope you've been at least following Letterstime. If not, the HSF is up to something like 10 DN kills while losing 1 pre-D. The GF LOB disengaged, but the HSF LOB pursued and caught them. Koenig just pulled out of the LOB because of severe damage;we may lose her. If you'd like more details, let me know and I'll try to get them to you Mon. Jim's writing is getting better and better, and the co-authors are doing some fantastic stuff.[/B][/QUOTE] Heh, the HSF "might" lose one Dreadnought eh? after having sunk the entire British BC fleet too. Yeah, Jim's writing is excellent and he's awesome to spar with on the debate board (wistful sigh in memory), but his game engine there is a little too biased towards his favorite fleet for my tastes. (not to mention his representation of British command is worse than the AI in PacWar ) I'll just let you give me the highlights

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Post #: 9
- 10/14/2000 7:42:00 AM   
KGzim

 

Posts: 25
Joined: 9/3/2000
Status: offline 		PZIII J had a single 50mm Face hardened front hull plate PZIII G late had a extra 30mm face hardened plate on the bow,front superstructure and hull rear PZIII H had the extra 30mm FHP installed at the factory. PZIII L had a single 50mm FHP and spaced 20mm FHP on the front superstructure.

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