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Alamo in the Ardennes Mod

 
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Alamo in the Ardennes Mod - 12/4/2008 1:57:24 AM   
crushingleeek_slith

 

Posts: 89
Joined: 11/24/2008
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Below is a list of mods that I have been playing with. Let me know if you are interested in testing any or all of them out. I could post the actual file changes.

This mod has been tested from playing the Allied side.


AMERICAN teams:

Platoon leader teams, Rifle teams, Engineer teams and assault teams are half-squads (6 men each. Two teams make a squad.)
-a platoon leader team + one rifle team makes what I'll call "1st squad."
-above teams have one rifleman equipped with grenadelauncher/garand.

-Plt. lead teams have 1 bazooka roound.
-Rifle teams and Engineer teams have 2 bazooka rounds.



BAR Squads are 10 men each (this single unit represents two teams that stick together.) Squads were typically 12 men, but since CCWaR only allows a max of ten, my story is that men are spread a little thin due to casualties.
So a bar "team" in my modded game is actually a squad; I'll call "2nd squad."

-This squad is the main firepower, suppressing fire squad. Historically, most squads had a .30 cal team. Thus, BAR squads have been equipped with a light .30 cal MG with limited ammo.
-MG loader carries an M1 Carbine.
-BAR squads do not have any bazookas.



The average platoon had between 30 and 40 men.
1st squad: [one Plt lead team (6 men), one rifleteam (6 men)], 2nd squad: [one BAR squad (12 men)], 3rd squad: [another rifleteam (6 men), and a .30 cal HMG team (5 men)] = 35 total men. historically typical number of men in a platoon.


bazooka teams (still 4 men) have 3 bazooka rounds. (Decreased from 5 rounds originally.) Historically, entire platoons dealt with as little as 3 bazooka rounds. Combined with 1 or 2 rounds available for Platoon leader and rifle teams, it just spreads out rounds more. On average, you'll still have ~5 rounds per platoon if you have a plt leader, rifleteam and bazooka team.

increased bazooka accuracy and power slightly. (debate this in the other thread). The changes have slight effect, and its still very wise to ambush with bazookas. Point blank missing is reduced, but a platoon of panther tanks will still run you over.)




Sniper teams:

-added spotter to sniper. They were getting lonely.




Experience:

decreased Regular infantry experience from seen combat (3) to combat training (2). (There is still variation up or down 1 built-in to the game when choosing from force pool.) This is to simulate the green soldiers of the 106th, and 99th.

Airborne troops are veterans.(value = 5)





Weapons:

-all thompson MG fires at rate of 1 round per 0.10th of a second (600 rounds/min); input value 1
at bursts of 5 rounds

-all 30 cal MG fires at rate of 1 round per 0.10th of a second (600 rounds/min); input value 1
at bursts of 12 rounds (longer burst)

-all 50 cal MG fires at rate of 1 round per 0.13th of a second (480 rounds/min); input value 1.3
at bursts of 10 rounds (longer burst)

-BAR 1 round per 0.17th of a second (350 rounds/min); input value 1.7


-all mortars have larger animated explosions. (no gameplay effect)




GERMAN Teams:

Axis teams:

-All Command infantry teams, Volksgreandiers, Panzergrenadiers, Fallschirmjager, Pioneers (engineers) teams have 10 men. These "teams" are more precisely squads now, and the extra manpower represents the huge advantage in number of troops that the Germans had in the first half of the battle. Now, instead of 1 german company attacking 1 american company, the effect can be up to 2 companies attacking one, depending on the forcepool selection.

-MG infantry teams increased to 8 men; (now squads). Same reason as above.

--Squad sizes increased with mauser riflemen (6 per squad, as was typical.)

-MG's (not to be confused with MG infantry), still have 2 to 3 men. Hvy MG's still have 5 to 6 men.

- And all other team sizes unchanged.





Sniper:

added spotter to sniper


Experience:

increased experience of all SS troops to elite. (Even though many of the SS troops in this sector were not typical SS-trained elite troops, there still existed some of the best troops Germany still had.)

increased experience of combat training germans (level2) to seen battle (level3). (This is to aid German AI attacks more than anything. Historically, some German units were pretty green.)




weapons:


all MG42 MG fires at rate of 1 round per 0.05 th of a second (1200 rounds/min); input value 0.5
at bursts of 32 rounds

all MG34 MG fires at rate of 1 round per 0.07th of a second (~900 rounds/min); input value 0.7


all mortars have larger animated explosions. (no gameplay effect)







Terrain:

-halved all the soldier moving times [(soldier move low, soldier move med, soldier move high) x 0.5]

-increased vehicle and tracked armor speeds by 1.5. THIS HELPS AI ATTACKS cONSIDERABLY.

-increased hull rotation speeds by 1.5.

-increased rubble/debris cover. (398 --> 431)

-Soldiers can only enter buildings through doors and windows.

-Soldiers can dig in on more terrain (brush, making digging in in forests easier.)

-Bogged-down/Immobilize chances have been scaled down by an order of magnitude.


Grand Campaign:

Howitzer Artillery increased for both sides.
Post #: 1
RE: Alamo in the Ardennes Mod - 12/4/2008 3:49:41 AM   
Neil N

 

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I just read that book (awesome book), are you going to contain the campaign to the Bastogne corridor focusing on 28th ID, 9th & 10th armored combat commands and the 101st airborne like the book, or are you using the full campaign.

I know when I read it, I though...awesome mod potential.  In fact it is very similar to scope and scale of my old Race to Bastogne mod for CCV

(in reply to crushingleeek_slith)
Post #: 2
RE: Alamo in the Ardennes Mod - 12/6/2008 3:51:58 AM   
crushingleeek_slith

 

Posts: 89
Joined: 11/24/2008
Status: offline
Thanks Neil!

I'm still reading the book right now, very fascinating.
I'm doing the full campaign right now, and I haven't delved too deeply into campaign mods yet. Still tweaking with the gameplay mods right now to get them closer to what I interpret to be most realistic!

I will check out your mod when I get the chance.

(in reply to Neil N)
Post #: 3
RE: Alamo in the Ardennes Mod - 12/6/2008 4:11:00 AM   
Neil N

 

Posts: 740
Joined: 8/24/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crushingleeek

I will check out your mod when I get the chance.


Don't bother...it never got finished

(in reply to crushingleeek_slith)
Post #: 4
RE: Alamo in the Ardennes Mod - 12/9/2008 5:21:51 AM   
dodger bullet

 

Posts: 34
Joined: 12/4/2008
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i'm hella interested in testing. especially the claim that the speed in A.I. armors helps their aggressiveness. Nice. Hope the devs can input this int heir official mod if it's true.


(in reply to Neil N)
Post #: 5
RE: Alamo in the Ardennes Mod - 12/9/2008 9:47:51 AM   
Moss Orleni

 

Posts: 201
Joined: 11/3/2008
Status: offline
Mod sounds interesting...

On the rates of fire: I'd say be careful with applying cyclical rates of fire to weapons; they are theoretical and don't take into account things like barrel changing, heating and other battlefield effects. Practical ROF's are easily a factor 5 below cyclical ones...
Besides, I don't know how much ammo you will load on those poor MG teams, but at an effective ROF of fi 1200 RPM, you'd better have a supply truck attached to that unit

Cheers,
Moss

(in reply to dodger bullet)
Post #: 6
RE: Alamo in the Ardennes Mod - 12/9/2008 2:14:46 PM   
Neil N

 

Posts: 740
Joined: 8/24/2004
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yeah, you're going to run out of ammo real quick.  Like Moss said, too many factors that affect actual sustained rate of fire vs cyclical.  You increased speed of vehicles to help the AI attacks.  Rather than halving the soldiers movement rate, if you increase it, you will see a big difference.

(in reply to Moss Orleni)
Post #: 7
RE: Alamo in the Ardennes Mod - 12/9/2008 10:59:47 PM   
TheReal_Pak40

 

Posts: 186
Joined: 10/8/2003
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crushingleeek

-Plt. lead teams have 1 bazooka roound.
-Rifle teams and Engineer teams have 2 bazooka rounds.


Not sure what the purpose of the bazooka rounds are for if they have no bazooka. Can teams scavenge ammo from other dead or live teams?

quote:

ORIGINAL: crushingleeek
BAR Squads are 10 men each (this single unit represents two teams that stick together.) Squads were typically 12 men, but since CCWaR only allows a max of ten, my story is that men are spread a little thin due to casualties.
So a bar "team" in my modded game is actually a squad; I'll call "2nd squad."


If you pick a 10 man BAR team + the 2 man Sniper team that you list below, then you get the full 12 man squad. This is actually quite historically accurate since most U.S. infantry squads had one sharpshooter with a springfield.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crushingleeek
-This squad is the main firepower, suppressing fire squad. Historically, most squads had a .30 cal team. Thus, BAR squads have been equipped with a light .30 cal MG with limited ammo.


Not really historically accurate. All U.S. infantry squads had BARs, not light MGs. I think only U.S. Airborne used light MGs instead of BARs. Or maybe it was in addition to BARs. I can't remember.


quote:

ORIGINAL: crushingleeek
The average platoon had between 30 and 40 men.
1st squad: [one Plt lead team (6 men), one rifleteam (6 men)], 2nd squad: [one BAR squad (12 men)], 3rd squad: [another rifleteam (6 men), and a .30 cal HMG team (5 men)] = 35 total men. historically typical number of men in a platoon.


I think it's interesting what you're trying to do but I think it's not quite historically accurate. The 6 man rifle and 6 man BAR teams in stock WaR are perfect because they typically operated as two man teams with the BAR team providing suppressing fire. The only gripe I have with the stock WaR version is the absence of the Springfield sharpshooter.

One other issue is that you put a HMG team when it should be a LMG .30 team. Companies were allocated 3 air cooled LMGs and these were typically dished out to the platoons.

I only raise these issues because you seem to be doing this because of "historical accuracy"

(in reply to crushingleeek_slith)
Post #: 8
RE: Alamo in the Ardennes Mod - 12/9/2008 11:13:50 PM   
Senior Drill


Posts: 199
Joined: 11/21/2007
From: Quantico
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neil N

.......  Rather than halving the soldiers movement rate, if you increase it, you will see a big difference.


crushingleeek, I agree with Neil on this one. Since CC2, the stock, Atomic, Inc made terrain data had infantry moving between 20% and 30% too slow, depending on the element. Some years ago I actually did time trials to verify this, with my daughter holding the stop watch and praying desperately that none of her friends would see her crazy father dashing and crawling around the neighborhood. (I'm ex-infantry and was rucked up with properly weighted kit.)

It is my understanding, from more than one source that was there at the time, that Atomic deliberately lowered infantry movement rates because some testers were complaining about being able to keep up with this new fangled RTS Close Combat game and didn't restore realistic values in the later games. Also bear in mind that those wonderful, 18 feet tall sprites that we see (compared to map scale) are not what the game engine sees and does its calculations on, so appearances can be deceiving.

@Neil - Are the infantry movement rates in WaR the same or similar to COI and CCMT? Don't spend my days with my nose buried in spreadsheets anymore!



_____________________________

C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre.

(in reply to Neil N)
Post #: 9
RE: Alamo in the Ardennes Mod - 12/10/2008 1:29:24 AM   
Neil N

 

Posts: 740
Joined: 8/24/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Senior Drill


@Neil - Are the infantry movement rates in WaR the same or similar to COI and CCMT? Don't spend my days with my nose buried in spreadsheets anymore!




A quick run through, and it looks like all of the soldier movement rates are the same in WaR as they are in CCMT...with the exception of the walls...at least according to my workbook.

(in reply to Senior Drill)
Post #: 10
RE: Alamo in the Ardennes Mod - 12/12/2008 5:21:00 PM   
dodger bullet

 

Posts: 34
Joined: 12/4/2008
Status: offline
Neil dude, the seemingly innovative approach yer heading is making me want this mod more than ever. will it be available before christmas?

i think the infantry only entering through doors-windows was implemented before. i dont' rightly know what the outcome concluded -- can you tell us if it adds dynamism or anything at all in the A.I.s behavior?  One of the cool things I hope the next CC does is have better implementation as to where yer infantry can be positioned (like what's found in Company of Heroes).



(in reply to Neil N)
Post #: 11
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