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War in the East... - 12/7/2008 11:06:09 AM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		Does anyone know if there has been any info regarding a new Eastern Front game?
Last time I read about it was in a Newsletter (a year ago or so?)....

Pretty sure I speak for a lot of dedicated Matrix customers when I say "This is what I'm waiting for". Feel free to help nudge Matrix' attention to this

A good second would be a new turn based game about the fortotten war - the War in Korea.


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Post #: 1
RE: War in the East... - 12/7/2008 11:10:47 AM   
sterckxe


Posts: 4605
Joined: 3/30/2004
From: Flanders
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB
Does anyone know if there has been any info regarding a new Eastern Front game?


Last I have is this :

http://www.2by3games.com/devjournal/journal20080331.html

Turn-based - weekly moves, 10 mile hexes

Available : 2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB
A good second would be a new turn based game about the fortotten war - the War in Korea.


The Korea scenario in TOAW III is a classic - recommended

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 2
RE: War in the East... - 12/7/2008 11:11:17 AM   
Hertston


Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline 		2 by 3 aren't big on updates (although they are fun when they come), but I think they said they were going back to the Eastern Front game after finishing WBtS.  Estimated completion was 2009 or 2010; the latter seems rather more likely?

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 3
RE: War in the East... - 12/7/2008 11:28:51 AM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		I second this.

A new dev diary, introducing the game system of WaR, along with a a few screenshots maybe, would be nice. There is no need to give an approximately release date but I'd like to know what to expext from this title and if it's, regarding detail and complexity, on par with WitP and could set a new milestone for 2by3 games.


< Message edited by Lützow -- 12/7/2008 11:30:14 AM >

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Post #: 4
RE: War in the East... - 12/7/2008 4:19:33 PM   
Grell

 

Posts: 1064
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I'm not getting this game, my brain is too far gone to play it.

Regards,

Grell





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Post #: 5
RE: War in the East... - 12/7/2008 4:54:02 PM   
wosung

 

Posts: 692
Joined: 7/18/2005
Status: offline 		Last info on it on this forum might be:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1732154&mpage=2&key=
(post 44ff)

Joe Billings answered a few questions.

Regards

(in reply to Grell)
Post #: 6
RE: War in the East... - 12/7/2008 7:41:16 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		Thx for the updates!
I read the development journal last Spring, but afterwards I never heard anything more.
Maybe we can get a new status report before Xmas....

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"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

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Post #: 7
RE: War in the East... - 12/8/2008 12:34:50 AM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		We are very actively developing our next war in the east game. I have been meaning to post an update on our website for the past few months, but haven't been able to get around to it. We've been actively alpha testing (with some testers) since July. There's plenty to do still to get to a beta version, and I've resisted screenshots since we're using an alpha test map, counters and interface. We've only just recently begun work on better counters and the interface/art, and the map work is also just gearing up after we had a false start with another artist. Maybe when things get slower around the holdiays I'll have time to post more detailed info, although screenshots will probably wait until we get better art which we hope to get in during the first quarter of 2009. The game is very playable now, although there's so much undergoing change, and we haven't come close to documenting everything going on in the game (and in some areas haven't tried to finalize our design). I can say I am constantly amazed at how much Gary manages to get in under the hood. The game in many ways will be as difficult to produce as War in the Pacific due to the sheer size and length of the game (and war). 2009 or 2010, that's about all I can say now. For me, I can say I am enjoying working on this more than WitP because as I'm more of a ground war guy. I find I'd rather be testing the game now than working on some of the development issues, so I take that as a good sign. I'll encourage the testers to talk about the game here if they have some time.

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 8
RE: War in the East... - 12/8/2008 1:35:40 AM   
Phatguy

 

Posts: 1348
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Buffalo,ny
Status: offline 		I'll test for you!!Need a tester who will test 8-10 hours per day? I have boatloads of free time..!!!!I have been denied going back to work until at least the middle of January...lol

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 9
RE: War in the East... - 12/8/2008 2:11:05 AM   
KTNJR


Posts: 102
Joined: 3/19/2007
From: Green Bay, WI
Status: offline 		Thanks for the update Joel. Im looknig forward to this game very much!
In the meantime it's WITP and AE when it come out!

Thanks again

(in reply to Phatguy)
Post #: 10
RE: War in the East... - 12/8/2008 4:32:20 PM   
Peter Fisla


Posts: 2503
Joined: 10/5/2001
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

We are very actively developing our next war in the east game. I have been meaning to post an update on our website for the past few months, but haven't been able to get around to it. We've been actively alpha testing (with some testers) since July. There's plenty to do still to get to a beta version, and I've resisted screenshots since we're using an alpha test map, counters and interface. We've only just recently begun work on better counters and the interface/art, and the map work is also just gearing up after we had a false start with another artist. Maybe when things get slower around the holdiays I'll have time to post more detailed info, although screenshots will probably wait until we get better art which we hope to get in during the first quarter of 2009. The game is very playable now, although there's so much undergoing change, and we haven't come close to documenting everything going on in the game (and in some areas haven't tried to finalize our design). I can say I am constantly amazed at how much Gary manages to get in under the hood. The game in many ways will be as difficult to produce as War in the Pacific due to the sheer size and length of the game (and war). 2009 or 2010, that's about all I can say now. For me, I can say I am enjoying working on this more than WitP because as I'm more of a ground war guy. I find I'd rather be testing the game now than working on some of the development issues, so I take that as a good sign. I'll encourage the testers to talk about the game here if they have some time.



That's great news Joel, thanks for the update!

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 11
RE: War in the East... - 12/8/2008 7:47:23 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		Here's to hoping this one turns out to meet the really high expectations everyone seems to have.

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Post #: 12
RE: War in the East... - 12/8/2008 8:36:09 PM   
Phatguy

 

Posts: 1348
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Buffalo,ny
Status: offline 		I havent known them to make stinkers yet

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)
Post #: 13
RE: War in the East... - 12/8/2008 8:53:01 PM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		I'd like to see a similiar system as in WitP, regarding units autonomous operating after setup, till player carry out adjustments or task is accomplished. So I do not have to move every counter for each turn.

(in reply to Phatguy)
Post #: 14
RE: War in the East... - 12/9/2008 10:16:48 AM   
DavidFaust

 

Posts: 857
Joined: 9/4/2004
From: Australia
Status: offline 		I'm in the alpha test team and I will try to do my best to report some aspects of this game.

The game has changed and improved since joining the alpha team so what I report may change between now and release. Some parts of the game have not been decided on.

The game (game name has not been decided yet) is divisional/brigade scale that uses 10 miles hexes and game turns represents 1 week. Players control all air and ground forces of either the Soviets or Germany and her allies.
In a turn air and ground forces are used to engage the enemy. There is no execution phase so all results are known while playing your turn.

I regard movement points to be an important part of the game as this is whats used when ground formations take action. In saying that a fast moving formation that has travelled a large distance does not have the fighting strength of a rested formation. (I found this out the hard way by losing a Pz division when I advanced too quickly)

Sorry for the brief post but I'm still not 100% sure what I can and cant say about this game.













< Message edited by kingtiger_501 -- 12/13/2008 1:03:54 AM >

(in reply to Lützow)
Post #: 15
RE: War in the East... - 12/9/2008 11:06:12 AM   
wosung

 

Posts: 692
Joined: 7/18/2005
Status: offline 		Thank you. Every bit of info is appriciated.

The obmission of a combat resolution phase sounds interesting. Although the simultanuous combat resolution gang will make some noise.

 IMO, one of the main flaws of  War in Russia is a rather dull clickfeast (esp. attack orders and distributing supplies) with the resolution condensed in a special phase. That somehow overstructured the game and wasn't good for the game flow.

Regards

Post scriptum: I'm trying hard not to ask you any question...

(in reply to DavidFaust)
Post #: 16
RE: War in the East... - 12/9/2008 7:50:04 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		Thx, this was great news!

Would be great with a few screenies for Xmas as well...
Hope to see a new site "Under Development" soon!

Also a big salute to Gary - must he never stop turning out great wargames


_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to wosung)
Post #: 17
RE: War in the East... - 12/10/2008 12:07:30 PM   
DavidFaust

 

Posts: 857
Joined: 9/4/2004
From: Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB

Thx, this was great news!

Would be great with a few screenies for Xmas as well...
Hope to see a new site "Under Development" soon!

Also a big salute to Gary - must he never stop turning out great wargames



The game is only using a alpha map atm, I dont think art work has been started yet. I would guess that no screen shots will be displayed to this has been completed.


< Message edited by kingtiger_501 -- 12/10/2008 12:11:46 PM >

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 18
RE: War in the East... - 12/12/2008 4:17:20 PM   
Fintilgin

 

Posts: 196
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline 		Back in high school I used to play War in Russia.  I seem to be able to remember being able to get through a full campaign in a 'reasonable' amount of time.  I won't venture an hour estimate, but I know I won it several times, even while playing plenty of other games and dealing with school work.

Now, I bought War in the Pacific, and while it's cool, it's simply too big and long a game for me to really play seriously.  It can take a couple hundred hours to go from start to finish.  There's nothing wrong with that, but it's not really for me.  As rewarding as I'm sure it is, I can't dedicate that many of my limited gaming hours to a single play of one game!  WitP is more of a stand-alone hobby, in and of itself, then just a standard wargame.

So, I'm curious where War in East is intended to lie on this spectrum.  Will it be the sort of game where we can play through the full war in a week or two of gaming sessions, or will it be like WitP, where it takes a year or longer in real time to play from 1941-1945.

If it's the former, you can sign me up, copy sold.  If it's the later, I'll have to wish you good luck and watch from the sidelines. :)

(in reply to DavidFaust)
Post #: 19
RE: War in the East... - 12/12/2008 10:25:23 PM   
Rodwell


Posts: 22
Joined: 8/3/2008
Status: offline 		Perhaps we could have a forum for this game, it certainly sounds like an interesting project (even if I would have preferred the entire European war).

(in reply to Fintilgin)
Post #: 20
RE: War in the East... - 12/13/2008 10:10:00 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		This game is some where in between the old War in Russia and WitP in terms of length. It's weekly turns like War in Russia, but with units being divisions (and some brigades) instead of corps, it's fair to assume the game will take 2-4 times as long to play as War in Russia. I haven't done a time estimate though, so I could be off. It's fair to say that turns can take an hour each, although initially they can take longer, and later on I think they might take less time. With around 200 turns, that sounds like 200 hours to play through, but it could be more (or less). WitP has daily turns, so it has 7 times the number of turns. Although some players can get into playing WitP turns in 15 minutes once they get going, that's still roughly twice the time. Once we get further along be sure to ask us again and we'll try to give a better time estimate.

(in reply to Fintilgin)
Post #: 21
RE: War in the East... - 12/14/2008 5:57:07 AM   
Fintilgin

 

Posts: 196
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks, I'll definitely keep an eye on it. One nice thing about Barbarossa is, if you're playing the Germans, you can potentially pull off a win in well less than the full 200 turns.

It's probably not feasible, but it would be nice if you could turn over more of the fiddly stuff to the AI. Let it auto-manage more of the supply/reinforcement stuff, maybe allowing you to say, prioritize HQs X, Y, and Z. Or even turn over a particular front or group of units to the AI with orders like HOLD, ADVANCE ON ROSTOV CAUTIOUSLY, or NOT A STEP BACK. Something so you can focus in on areas of particular interest to you and move through the game more quickly. With such a huge game it would actually be cool if you could set a couple grand strategic goals for the AI which would then plot out your turn for you. You could then go in and tweak and override things towards your vision, reinforcing particular areas, taking control of some HQs to micromanage a particular battle or encirclment, etc. As if you were playing Hitler or Stalin and the AI was your generals presenting their strategies which you could approve and modify, without forcing you to go in and click on all 3000 of your individual units every single turn (but letting you do so if you wanted). But that, I imagine, would probably be a different game design all together. :)

I get a touch frustrated sometimes, because I really want a grand strategy game like this that is deeper, richer, and more complex then offerings like Strategic Command, but 300+ hour Monster Mega Games where you have to micromanage every individual bullet, shell, and can of beans leave me out in the cold. Someday, someone will make a game at just the scale I'd like, and I'll be a happy camper. :)



< Message edited by Fintilgin -- 12/14/2008 6:04:25 AM >

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 22
RE: War in the East... - 12/14/2008 6:08:32 AM   
benpark

 

Posts: 3884
Joined: 8/12/2002
Status: offline 		I have great expectations for this game.

I would hope to see a few things:

-The ability to reconstitute units that have been eliminated. I'm hoping for something a bit more complex than the standard elimination of units given the divisional level scale.

-Surrender of units under certain circumstances (surrounded for x amount of time without hope of resupply and certain over-run attacks, perhaps). I also hope that some method of depicting morale is taken into account for units on an individual and strategic basis.

-A map and unit depiction that appeals to board gamers, yet moves the look of these games forward visually. I also hope Berlin is in (and game play until 1945), and given breathing room to the West for envelopment. Too many games have it on the last hex of the board/screen.

-Lastly, a user interface that makes the game play fluidly instead of being torture to play.

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Post #: 23
RE: War in the East... - 12/14/2008 12:41:31 PM   
Josans


Posts: 1728
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Barcelona (Spain)
Status: offline 		Gary and Joel are working hard to make a great game about East Front (with help from testers ), with very accuracy but at the same time looking for no spend a lot of time to make a turn as long as witp.
I think we will have many optional rules to people just want a fast turn game or players like to control anything. For example, right now, you can choose to do air missions with a simply click of the mouse or do it mannualy from each airbase. You choose. The overall result can be the same but Gary give you the chance to focused at the deep of the game if you want...
The OOB is excellent and be sure you will have a great game and a lot of info like a book about Eastern Front in the same package.


< Message edited by Josan -- 12/14/2008 2:30:38 PM >

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Post #: 24
RE: War in the East... - 12/15/2008 8:57:51 PM   
JJKettunen


Posts: 3530
Joined: 3/12/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Is any part of the Finnish front covered? I could help you with the OOB if there's any need.


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Jyri Kettunen

The eternal privilege of those who never act themselves: to interrogate, be dissatisfied, find fault.

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Post #: 25
RE: War in the East... - 12/15/2008 9:25:58 PM   
U2


Posts: 3332
Joined: 7/17/2001
From: Västerås,Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke

Is any part of the Finnish front covered? I could help you with the OOB if there's any need.



Yes, it is.

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Post #: 26
RE: War in the East... - 12/15/2008 9:41:10 PM   
JJKettunen


Posts: 3530
Joined: 3/12/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: U2


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke

Is any part of the Finnish front covered? I could help you with the OOB if there's any need.



Yes, it is.


All of it?

_____________________________

Jyri Kettunen

The eternal privilege of those who never act themselves: to interrogate, be dissatisfied, find fault.

- A. Solzhenitsyn

(in reply to U2)
Post #: 27
RE: War in the East... - 12/15/2008 10:36:24 PM   
U2


Posts: 3332
Joined: 7/17/2001
From: Västerås,Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke


quote:

ORIGINAL: U2


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke

Is any part of the Finnish front covered? I could help you with the OOB if there's any need.



Yes, it is.


All of it?


I don't know if I am allowed to go into specifics due to the NDA. Hopefully Joel will answer you.


_____________________________


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Post #: 28
RE: War in the East... - 12/15/2008 10:42:22 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		We're just covering the very southernmost portion of the Finnish front (Leningrad, Svir River sp?).

(in reply to U2)
Post #: 29
RE: War in the East... - 12/15/2008 11:10:14 PM   
JJKettunen


Posts: 3530
Joined: 3/12/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Thanks for the info. Just let me know if you need any kind of help.

_____________________________

Jyri Kettunen

The eternal privilege of those who never act themselves: to interrogate, be dissatisfied, find fault.

- A. Solzhenitsyn

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 30
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