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Bug Report - 12/6/2008 6:47:26 PM

TR Shrum

Posts: 74
Joined: 2/13/2006
Status: offline

Current Game Situation: Day Two, North Base Tactical Map (Newbie Setting).

Game History: Main Character and five hired Mercs (MP5s and Shotguns).

Day One: North Road Tactical Map. Marauders (Neutral) and Soldiers (Enemy) fought it out and reduced their respective numbers by approximately 50% each as my guys watched. At this point both Marauders and Soldiers (Enemies) turned on me while continuing to fight each other.

Bugs: Both Marauders and Soldiers were incredibly accurate with their respective weapons; SKSs, M1s, MP5s, Sidearms, and Shotguns. They were able to repeatedly hit their intended targets at well over half the distance of the Tactical Map (all with 15 to 25 points of damage). My guys couldn�t hit a bull in the a## with a base fiddle if it were standing in front of them. My character had an Accuracy of 85. Also, Soldiers seem to be able to hurl a grenade an incredible distance with uncanny accuracy.

Speaking of accuracy, the �mechanic� that starts by the jeep must be Rambo or Dirty Harry. He took out three rifle/shotgun armed Marauders all by himself with his little handgun. My guys finally were able to wound him enough so that he left the map.

All of my Mercs were wounded, some seriously.

Night(?) Day One 00:23 Hrs Game Time, Bugs: Ambushed Bus Location Tactical Map. Everyone dead, no money, no documents, no enemy, minor items to loot. Also, if this is �night�, it wasn�t very dark.

Day Two, North Base Tactical Map, Bugs: Again, incredible accuracy by the Militia including the ability to hurl grenades over half the distance of the Tactical Map with perfect accuracy. By this time (from Day One) my guys had acquired M1s and scoped SKSs. However, I still couldn�t hit anything with them. My Character used an M1 (99% condition) on an enemy Militia man within 25� (game scale?) and missed him six out of eight times. My �designated� sniper (Acc 75) with her scoped SKS missed a single enemy target eight out of ten times; within �on screen� visual distance. My Character finally managed to hit a target (wearing only a T shirt) at near point blank range with a solid three round burst from an MP5 and only managed 4 points of damage.

I�m only about half way through this Map and all my Mercs are wounded (one is trying to die). The Militia on this map remind me of a group of NRA members refusing to turn in their guns. I�m not sure if I�m going to be able to win this one.

Movement Bugs: None of my Mercs were able to cross the wooden portion of the destroyed road bridge in this sector and all had �problems� crossing the railroad bridge.

General Bugs, Movement, Tactical/Combat Mode: Several times my Mercs either refuse to move or only �partially� move. They have plenty of Action Points, no terrain obstacles, and no �sighted� enemies. Yet no matter how many times I click on a destination location simply refuse to move. Sometimes it takes five or six clicks before they will move. Sometimes they only move one step. It may take as many as ten �clicks� (one step at a time) for them to get to their intended location. And yes, I made sure that it is within their �Action Point Total.�

General Bugs, Money: How do you make any money in this game? I have only been able to loot $600 so far. I understand that there are sectors (and diamond mines) that I can utilize, but where and how? By the end of Day Two I will loose all my Mercs because I am down to less than $1,500. I don�t seem to be able to sell any equipment that I loot either.

Weapons Accuracy Note: I�m not trying to brag here but I own both an M1 and an SKS. The M1 is �stock� and the SKS is �tricked� out. I�ve ran several thousand rounds through both (recreational and competitive), and there are problems (bugs) with the game's weapons platforms. Sorry, but even a beginner should be able to put ten rounds of 7.62 x 39 into a man-size target with a scoped SKS at 500 yards. Eight rounds of 30-06 at 800 yrds over iron sights. However, in game terms, when an enemy soldier is able to take a baby MP5 and achieve a 75% hit rate at well over 1/3 the distance of the Tactical Map, theirs a problem. The MP5 series only fires 9mm pistol rounds. Even with a stock SKS, the MP5 armed individual will die long before he ever gets close enough to engage the SKS armed individual.

I certainly hope that this is not reflective of the �better� weapons to come as the game progresses.

This is all that I�ve found so far.

Post #: 1

RE: Bug Report - 12/6/2008 7:20:43 PM

TR Shrum

Posts: 74
Joined: 2/13/2006
Status: offline

Two more bugs just found.

First. After my first post I went back to the game with the hopes of finishing the current fight. When I loaded my saved game I discovered that the "on-map" M2 50 cal that I had manned and was using as a fire support/suppresion weapon was no longer "manned" by one of my Mercs. He was just standing next to it. But worse yet, when I "re-manned" the weapon, I found that it was out of ammo. When I saved the game earlier, the weapon had 884 rounds left (of course I couldn't hit anything with it).

Second. I reloaded the saved game. Same result; plus more bad news...

All my Mercs had somehow lost all of their weapons and equipment. Just gone.

I reloaded a third and then fourth time and the Mercs had their equipment and weapons, but the fifty was still dry.

Also, something concerning the NPC AI. At the North Base I've noticed that some of the Militia guys are either complet cowards or supermen. Some of them run at the first sound of gunfire (and I mean off the map). Or, a couple of them "fix bayonets" and "go over the top." I'm not sure if this is intentional or a bug.

(in reply to TR Shrum)

Post #: 2

RE: Bug Report - 12/6/2008 7:44:32 PM

Shin

Posts: 15
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline

Yeah my general impression so far is pretty buggy -- sometimes a failure to select all the mercenaries highlighted by the mouse, and situations where someone is speaking to you such as an officer asking for your papers and you can't even find him on the map to go show them to him before he launches the attack on you.

It's a typical situation of the type where the people who make the game don't actually play test it themselves to see if it all works.

(in reply to TR Shrum)

Post #: 3

RE: Bug Report - 12/6/2008 7:55:31 PM

pompack

Posts: 2582
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: University Park, Texas
Status: offline

I suspect that this thread would be more helpful if it were located in the Tech Support area with the bug reports. With saves.

(in reply to Shin)

Post #: 4

RE: Bug Report - 12/6/2008 8:05:30 PM

gunny

Posts: 995
Joined: 3/1/2003
Status: offline

I just had an oddity where one of my mercs stopped and would not fire the entire combat phase. It was weird, he had plenty ammo, lots of AP and full LOS, and could move. But the target cursor just never came up after the first 2 rounds. Initially he fired 2 bursts during his turns in the beginning, but targeting did not appear by the 3rs or 4th round of combat, in any shoot mode or position. The other mercs ended battle without his help.

_____________________________

(in reply to Shin)

Post #: 5

RE: Bug Report - 12/6/2008 9:04:47 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TR Shrum
Bugs: Both Marauders and Soldiers were incredibly accurate with their respective weapons; SKSs, M1s, MP5s, Sidearms, and Shotguns. They were able to repeatedly hit their intended targets at well over half the distance of the Tactical Map (all with 15 to 25 points of damage). My guys couldn�t hit a bull in the a## with a base fiddle if it were standing in front of them. My character had an Accuracy of 85. Also, Soldiers seem to be able to hurl a grenade an incredible distance with uncanny accuracy.

Have you read the FAQ? Do you have Maximum Aim set for all your mercs?

quote:

Night(?) Day One 00:23 Hrs Game Time, Bugs: Ambushed Bus Location Tactical Map. Everyone dead, no money, no documents, no enemy, minor items to loot. Also, if this is �night�, it wasn�t very dark.

There's no bug here. If you take too long to get to this, they are dead and you miss the opportunity. Do better on the first mission, get there sooner and you'll find them alive.

quote:

Day Two, North Base Tactical Map, Bugs: Again, incredible accuracy by the Militia including the ability to hurl grenades over half the distance of the Tactical Map with perfect accuracy. By this time (from Day One) my guys had acquired M1s and scoped SKSs. However, I still couldn�t hit anything with them. My Character used an M1 (99% condition) on an enemy Militia man within 25� (game scale?) and missed him six out of eight times. My �designated� sniper (Acc 75) with her scoped SKS missed a single enemy target eight out of ten times; within �on screen� visual distance. My Character finally managed to hit a target (wearing only a T shirt) at near point blank range with a solid three round burst from an MP5 and only managed 4 points of damage.

I think this is a learning curve issue. My guess is you are not "aiming" at all and just using the default "pray and spray" setting. Please read the FAQ for some tips.

quote:

General Bugs, Movement, Tactical/Combat Mode: Several times my Mercs either refuse to move or only �partially� move. They have plenty of Action Points, no terrain obstacles, and no �sighted� enemies. Yet no matter how many times I click on a destination location simply refuse to move. Sometimes it takes five or six clicks before they will move. Sometimes they only move one step. It may take as many as ten �clicks� (one step at a time) for them to get to their intended location. And yes, I made sure that it is within their �Action Point Total.�

I've never seen this happen. They always move when I tell them to, unless they're out of AP. Has anyone else seen this?

quote:

General Bugs, Money: How do you make any money in this game? I have only been able to loot $600 so far. I understand that there are sectors (and diamond mines) that I can utilize, but where and how? By the end of Day Two I will loose all my Mercs because I am down to less than $1,500. I don�t seem to be able to sell any equipment that I loot either.

Start with cheaper mercs and grab a strategic location. The Dam, the railroad, the mine, etc. The game is not a walkover difficulty-wise, but it's quite possible to get in there with your first team, grab a strategic location and start making some real money.

quote:

Weapons Accuracy Note:<snipped>

Please explore the use of aiming, especially "maximum aim". I think if you replay the first few missions with that change, you'll find things quite different.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to TR Shrum)

Post #: 6

RE: Bug Report - 12/7/2008 6:07:15 AM

TR Shrum

Posts: 74
Joined: 2/13/2006
Status: offline

Erik,
Yes I�ve read the FAQ and I use Maximum Aim. That is why I�m confused.
I finally managed to �win� the North Base mission, barely. I then moved on to the Road Block. Boy did I get hosed. The T-shirt clad Pistol Snipers were scoring long-range head shots on my Kevlar clad Mercs. If that were not enough, their Super Grenadiers were providing long-range artillery support. I�m sure that they are top draft picks for the NFL.

My initial starting position was overrun eight times. And I mean overrun. Hand to Hand combat. It seemed that no matter what I did, my M1s just couldn�t hit a target. When I did manage to hit something (usually point-blank) I could only manage 4-6 points of damage. One T-shirt clad Militiaman took a point-blank three round burst from an MP5 and only suffered 2 points of damage. He then proceeded to (literally) kick my Merc to death.

I finally managed to win the ninth attempt. Five of the six Mercs were near death and the sixth was critical.

By this time I discovered how you make money. Win battles and control sectors. Also, finding sectors is iffy. If I had not stumbled onto the �guide� after the North Road battle, I wouldn�t have discovered the Road Block, Safari, and North Base. As it was, it took several attempts to get the �guide� to tell me anything. He kept trying to sell me his car for $5,000. It took six attempts (going between Global and Tactical Maps) before he would accept the �pass phrase.�

By now I have enough money to hire a seventh Merc (all are the cheap ones by the way) and proceeded to �The Dam.� Clearing the �east� side of the dam seemed to go a little easier. But when I attempted an assault crossing of the dam itself I lost four of my seven Mercs to a T-shirt clad Super Grenadier. He lobbed two consecutive grenades from his side of the dam all the way over to my side.

Reload saved game and try again.

Reload saved game and try again.

Reload saved game and try again.

Reload saved game a fourth time, and the Super Grenadier has disappeared. I manage to clear the dam and make it across to the �west� side. I take out three more Militiamen and then I stopped cold by three Super-Super Militiamen wearing T-shirts and with one armed with a P90 and other two with Calico 960. The P90 armed bad guy was �south� of the dam (below the fork in the river) and was acting as a sniper. In less than five turns he managed to kill my medic and another Merc, and severally wound my Character (all on the dam). All with single shoots and inflicting between 34 and 87 point of damage. My Mercs (armed with M1s) scored only two hits out of eight attempts, scoring only 2 points of damage each. The other four Mercs were decimated by the two 960 armed bad guys. Two of my Mercs were blown backwards by massage bursts from long-range. One Merc took 117 points of damage from one burst. Dead meat. And the two Militiamen; absolutely fearless. They took no cover. Stayed standing and rock solid.

I�m sorry Erik, but this game is beginning to feel like a bad Hollywood movie. I�m a trained marksman, avid reloader, competition tactical pistol, rifle, and shotgun shooter, and firearms instructor. I know the difference between full auto and semi auto. I have been in both training and �real world� shooting situations; the weapons platforms in the game just don�t work like the real world. It�s almost like the designers (Russian I believe) watched one too many Die Hard movies.

The game has potential, but the weapons need to be fixed. There is no way that a squad of Private Contractors (Mercs) with M1s could loose an �open field� tactical firefight with a gaggle of inexperienced folks armed with weapons firing pistol caliber rounds.

I apologize for all this. I could go on and on about ballistics and tactics and such, but I�m sure that I�ve already PO�d enough folks. And sorry for the original posting of this thread in the wrong location. I�m a real newbie at this forum stuff.

Again, I think that the game has potential, I just am convinced that it needs to go back to the shop and have the weapons platforms corrected. I�ll shut up now and refrain from further posting on this subject.

Thanks

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 7

RE: Bug Report - 12/7/2008 11:35:56 AM

Koalab

Posts: 12
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline

I completely agree on most of what you have written. I think that grenades are the nr. one problem right now. Disappearing squad has a workaround. But the fact that the enemy can throw grenades as far as they can is simply game breaking. Is there some way to mod this?? I would definitely be the first mod i would install.

(in reply to TR Shrum)

Post #: 8

RE: Bug Report - 12/7/2008 3:09:57 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TR Shrum
Yes I�ve read the FAQ and I use Maximum Aim.� That is why I�m confused.

Is this on the Easy level?

quote:

I finally managed to �win� the North Base mission, barely.� I then moved on to the Road Block.� Boy did I get hosed.� The T-shirt clad Pistol Snipers were scoring long-range head shots on my Kevlar clad Mercs.� If that were not enough, their Super Grenadiers were providing long-range artillery support.� I�m sure that they are top draft picks for the NFL.

This is really odd. I have little trouble with that mission as long as I'm aiming. I often also go prone and sneak close before starting combat, then take them down quickly with leg shots to limit their AP so that they don't get as active with grenades or shooting.

quote:

My initial starting position was overrun eight times.� And I mean overrun.� Hand to Hand combat.� It seemed that no matter what I did, my M1s just couldn�t hit a target.� When I did manage to hit something (usually point-blank) I could only manage 4-6 points of damage.� One T-shirt clad Militiaman took a point-blank three round burst from an MP5 and only suffered 2 points of damage.� He then proceeded to (literally) kick my Merc to death.

Can you e-mail me a save file from the start of your battle? I'd like to play through it and see if the same thing happens to me. I've literally won that mission with one guy lightly wounded.

quote:

By this time I discovered how you make money.� Win battles and control sectors.� Also, finding sectors is iffy.� If I had not stumbled onto the �guide� after the North Road battle, I wouldn�t have discovered the Road Block, Safari, and North Base.� As it was, it took several attempts to get the �guide� to tell me anything.� He kept trying to sell me his car for $5,000.� It took six attempts (going between Global and Tactical Maps) before he would accept the �pass phrase.�

This is really bizarre, I've just not even seen this problem once with the pass phrase not showing up if you read the e-mail before talking with him. I have to wonder if these are some kind of bizarre issues that only show up on certain systems or in certain saves?

quote:

By now I have enough money to hire a seventh Merc (all are the cheap ones by the way) and proceeded to �The Dam.�� Clearing the �east� side of the dam seemed to go a little easier.� But when I attempted an assault crossing of the dam itself I lost four of my seven Mercs to a T-shirt clad Super Grenadier.� He lobbed two consecutive grenades from his side of the dam all the way over to my side.

Another mission I've had no trouble with - it's challenging, but last time I got through this with two badly wounded mercs, the others got through fine. The dam is definitely a good early target and money maker.

quote:

Reload saved game a fourth time, and the Super Grenadier has disappeared.� I manage to clear the dam and make it across to the �west� side.

Define "disappeared" - did he just not throw grenades or was that particular enemy not on the map at all?

quote:

I take out three more Militiamen and then I stopped cold by three Super-Super Militiamen wearing T-shirts and with one armed with a P90 and other two with Calico 960.� The P90 armed bad guy was �south� of the dam (below the fork in the river) and was acting as a sniper.� In less than five turns he managed to kill my medic and another Merc, and severally wound my Character (all on the dam).� All with single shoots and inflicting between 34 and 87 point of damage.

That sounds like bad luck. I also generally flank south of the dam with a couple of mercs to clear out the guys down there before crossing the causeway.

quote:

My Mercs (armed with M1s) scored only two hits out of eight attempts, scoring only 2 points of damage each.� The other four Mercs were decimated by the two 960 armed bad guys.� Two of my Mercs were blown backwards by massage bursts from long-range.� One Merc took 117 points of damage from one burst.� Dead meat.� And the two Militiamen; absolutely fearless.� They took no cover.� Stayed standing and rock solid.

Again, is this on Easy? This just sounds nothing like my experience with the game.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to TR Shrum)

Post #: 9

RE: Bug Report - 12/7/2008 3:14:49 PM

Koalab

Posts: 12
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline

I just restartet. Before i played on medium. Now on easy. Makes the game quite a bit more playable in tactical. But moneywise it seems a bit too easy now. The mercs cost one third of what they did on medium. On top of that you start out with more money.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 10

RE: Bug Report - 12/7/2008 7:34:55 PM

Artmiser

Posts: 179
Joined: 12/4/2006
Status: offline

Playing on Easy did the first mission without to many problems, I did have a full squad however, so well see how well my money holds up.

I did notice when you kill someone most of the time the weapon they were holding vanishes, and does not come back at the end as loot.

_____________________________

Former Marine
Retired Deputy Sheriff
Wargamer untill I die

(in reply to Koalab)

Post #: 11

RE: Bug Report - 12/7/2008 8:04:20 PM

ShadoWarrior

Posts: 164
Joined: 12/6/2008
From: Florida space coast
Status: offline

Hired Guns follows the original JA/JA2 concept that most of the gear on your dead enemies vanish. The JA2 Mod Team fixed that by creating a configuration option (plus in-game checkbox) so that players may choose whether enemies drop all gear, or whether the game plays as the developers designed it. I'm very disappointed to see that, despite how many years some of these basic fixes to JA2 have been around (including doing away with the stupid psych questionnaire), the Russian programmers of Hired Guns decided to ignore feature fixes that most JA2 fans prefer and go with a more-or-less straight copy of vanilla JA2. Seriously. This stuff was annoying in 1997, and it's even more annoying now.

(in reply to Artmiser)

Post #: 12

RE: Bug Report - 12/8/2008 12:45:53 AM

Chris Bisson

Posts: 147
Joined: 10/23/2005
Status: offline

To be able to lob grenades across the dam sounds like a bug to me. I know there are grenade launchers in the game, maybe he had 1 of those? Still, 2 rounds in the same turn seems a bit much.

(in reply to ShadoWarrior)

Post #: 13

RE: Bug Report - 12/9/2008 2:03:59 AM

Trifler

Posts: 115
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

If you try to stack too many items in the strategic sector storage, it's deleting one of the items. For example it allows up to two RPG rockets in a slot, and I tried to add a third by dragging the third RPG rocket over the existing stack of two. It placed the one I was holding in the slot. I then placed the stuff held in my cursor in another empty slot and only had two RPG rockets instead of three. Same thing with medkits and ammo. This only happens in the strategic sector storage, not in merc inventory, although it happens when dragging from merc inventory into the storage slots.

(in reply to Chris Bisson)

Post #: 14

RE: Bug Report - 12/9/2008 2:44:21 AM

ShadoWarrior

Posts: 164
Joined: 12/6/2008
From: Florida space coast
Status: offline

Beware: If you drop a stack on top of another stack in the tactical map one of those stacks will vanish. I accidentally did this in the Northern Road sector and 2 of the 6 RPG warheads were not in the sector inventory after the auto-looting. So be very careful where you put stuff on the ground.

(in reply to Trifler)

Post #: 15

RE: Bug Report - 12/9/2008 3:43:55 AM

Trifler

Posts: 115
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

Do you mean that if you try to stack items in your merc's inventory, one will be deleted when you return to the strategic view and view the sector inventory?

(in reply to ShadoWarrior)

Post #: 16

RE: Bug Report - 12/9/2008 4:05:36 AM

ShadoWarrior

Posts: 164
Joined: 12/6/2008
From: Florida space coast
Status: offline

Not the merc's inventory. Drop something on the ground, and then drop something on the ground in the same spot. If the items exceed stacking limits, some of them vanish.

(in reply to Trifler)

Post #: 17

RE: Bug Report - 12/9/2008 6:07:41 AM

Trifler

Posts: 115
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShadoWarrior

Not the merc's inventory. Drop something on the ground, and then drop something on the ground in the same spot. If the items exceed stacking limits, some of them vanish.

Ah, ok. I understand now.

(in reply to ShadoWarrior)

Post #: 18

RE: Bug Report - 12/11/2008 2:52:18 AM

Trifler

Posts: 115
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

Bug: Shaman's M1 Benelli Super 90 weighs 5.43 with ammo, but the same weapon purchased from the store only weighs 3.75 with ammo. I think the spirits are putting weight on his shoulders. :)

(in reply to Trifler)

Post #: 19