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Witp Aar - 4/25/2002 10:00:20 AM   
byron13


Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline 		So, I was fortunate enough to be selected as one of the 24 beta testers for War in the Pacific. What an honor! And after the response Snigbert and Iain got in their UV betas, I know I'll be busy.

I select the Allies vs. computer Japan in the full blown campaign with all options neutral. Unfortunately, I find - much like in PacWar - the setup is fixed, i.e., I can't change anything before the Japanese first turn. As expected the first turn is December 7th and - surprise! - the Japanese do hit Pearl Harbor.

The results seem pretty historical. Oklahoma and West Virginia are write-offs. California sunk but repaired in 18 months; Arizona sunk by repairable in 14 months; Nevada sunk but repairable in ugh! 22 months. Pennsylvania got off easy with two torps and a number of bomb hits repairable in 5 months. Maryland 9 months. Hmmm . . . the North Dakota nine months. That's a glitch Gary will want to know about. Lost two CAs, a CL, 2 DDs, and a minesweeper. Fortunately, the carriers are not in Pearl, though another tester indicated there is a random chance they might be in Pearl on December 7. Hickham and Wheeler hit hard losing about 100 planes. Unfortunately, nothing got off to find their fleet, so I don't even know what hit me. Shot down 25 planes, mostly by flak, but some guy named Kelly shot down three! He's got experience of 85 - promote the boy to Captain!

Elsewhere, recon doesn't pick up much activity and, for some reason, the Philippines aren't attacked at all. What's he got up his sleeve, I wonder? Prince of Wales and Repulse are still alive, and I'll have to get them out of there.

Okay, Allied turn. First, set China to be run on the computer. I've been tasked to focus on production bugs anyway.

The turn starts with the production cycle. Interesting. Lots of groovy options. I decide to scrap production testing of the F4U and commit it to speeding up production of F6F's. Not sure I want to dicker with B-17 production yet. I'd like to overwhelm the Japanese with long-ranged bombers, but right now the computer says that I'm getting 12 per week to be upped to 36 in January. That might do.

No CVE's in the pipeline, but I'm offered the opportunity to convert to CA's to CVE's - what the heck, why not? I'm not expecting much surface combat anyway, and you can always use more carriers, right? Wow! the raw materials interface is excellent and looks like it'll be a lot of fun. Ground forces look pretty balanced production-wise, so I'll leave that be for now. Besides I haven't read the rules on ground production yet.

I exit out of the resources interface to take a look at where they are coming from: South America and a long rubber pipeline from Indonesia. That will probably be cut soon, so I'll have to make some changes.

Then . . . . and then I wake up! Darn, it was just a dream.
Post #: 1
- 4/25/2002 1:25:00 PM   
Sir George Head

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 4/16/2002
Status: offline 		Hey Great!

Always remember: screen shots are welcome :)

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Post #: 2
- 4/25/2002 2:12:51 PM   
Raverdave


Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline 		Hey was I asleep???? When did the call go out for beta testers for WitP????? Sod it!

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Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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Post #: 3
- 4/25/2002 2:15:27 PM   
Raverdave


Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline 		Byron13,

Mate you have a task to provide at least one AAR every 4 to 5 hours......failure to do so will result in the great computer god crashing your 'poota !!!:D

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Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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Post #: 4
Really had me - 4/25/2002 7:07:11 PM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Greetings, You really had me going......."Tex Ritter? and thats when I woke up" I am going to camp out in this forum night and day when the hunt for beta testers really begins.

Raverdave it was just a joke. (a well written joke)

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

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Post #: 5
Delaying Corsair is just pure evil - 4/25/2002 8:01:37 PM   
ftwarrior

 

Posts: 39
Joined: 2/28/2002
From: Springfield, VA
Status: offline 		Glad that was just a dream. Delaying production of the fighter that won the pacific war would be a mortal sin. :D

(in reply to byron13)
Post #: 6
Re: Witp Aar - 4/25/2002 8:04:48 PM   
rhohltjr


Posts: 536
Joined: 4/27/2000
From: When I play pacific wargames, I expect smarter AI.
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by byron13
[B]

...Pennsylvania got off easy with two torps and a number of bomb hits repairable in 5 months.

Then . . . . and then I wake up! Darn, it was just a dream. [/B][/QUOTE]

I am at work now and not within grasp of any reference material. Check that dream machine cause I think the Pennsylvania was in dry dock and not open to torps. Unless they were really shallow running torps :rolleyes:

This kind of mean spiritedness will get you labelled as an evildoer. ;)

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Post #: 7
- 4/25/2002 8:14:11 PM   
screamer

 

Posts: 299
Joined: 7/21/2001
From: The Netherlands,
Status: offline 		ehhhmm yea what have i missed?? when did they ask for testers??

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poep

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Post #: 8
- 4/25/2002 8:17:56 PM   
byron13


Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline 		I'm sorry. Okay, so I'm not really sorry.

What's disturbing is that I'm so depraved after reading the UV AAR's that not only am I craving AAR's as a substitute for playing the actual game, now I'm craving make believe AAR's as a substitute for actual AAR's as a substitute for playing the actual game. I could spend hours writing yarns about a game I've never seen before.

I thought California was in drydock. I remember California being somehow different. Maybe it was moored by itself at the end of the row. But you may be right. In any event, I doubt the game will take that into account in hard coding and will subject all ships to the same fair treatment.

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Post #: 9
AAR depravity plague. - 4/25/2002 10:49:19 PM   
rhohltjr


Posts: 536
Joined: 4/27/2000
From: When I play pacific wargames, I expect smarter AI.
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by byron13
[B]

What's disturbing is that I'm so depraved after reading the UV AAR's ....

I thought California was in drydock. I remember California being somehow different. Maybe it was moored by itself at the end of the row. [/B][/QUOTE]

Those delicious UV AAR's have made us all depraved..

Yes, California was by itself at the end of the row. There with the 'Fighting Mad' oiler Neosho.
:cool:

(in reply to byron13)
Post #: 10
- 4/26/2002 2:19:58 AM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline 		Sounds like a nightmare more than a dream. To have the historic first turn and the Prince of Wales and Repulse not get attacked, much less the Phillipines untouched, would make for very blind omissions. That should of clued us in right away. In PW, I always played with the historic first turn, because of if I did not, I couldn't attack Pearl on my own by 12/7. Maybe I missed something, but it seems to me that if you were playing without the historic first turn, then the game should've started you out some weeks prior to 12/7, so that you'd still have the option of a 12/7 Pearl strike in your own manner.

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Post #: 11
- 4/26/2002 4:47:25 AM   
Mike Wood


Posts: 2095
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Oakland, California
Status: offline 		Hello...

It will be some time before we have a full beta version of WiP ready. We have many features yet to add. We will also have at least a half dozen December 1941 scenario variants, once we get the editor updated to allow for new computer opponent options.

At the moment. Gary is working on new ship types, Keith on the new mapping system and I am upgrading the data-base editor and working on the patch for Uncommon Valor. We will be adding some WiP features into that patch (really an upgrade).

Also, if we sell a goodly number of Uncommon Valor, it will encourage us to add more features to WiP.

Bye...

Michael Wood
__________________________________________________

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Charles_22
[B]Sounds like a nightmare more than a dream. To have the historic first turn and the Prince of Wales and Repulse not get attacked, much less the Phillipines untouched, would make for very blind omissions. That should of clued us in right away. In PW, I always played with the historic first turn, because of if I did not, I couldn't attack Pearl on my own by 12/7. Maybe I missed something, but it seems to me that if you were playing without the historic first turn, then the game should've started you out some weeks prior to 12/7, so that you'd still have the option of a 12/7 Pearl strike in your own manner. [/B][/QUOTE]

(in reply to byron13)
Post #: 12
sucked in - 4/26/2002 6:03:23 AM   
Raverdave


Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline 		I was had! Damnit! And I was looking forward to reading AARs!

_____________________________




Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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Post #: 13
- 4/26/2002 9:32:04 AM   
byron13


Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline 		Well, for RaverDave's benefit:

So, I have selected the "Debacle in the West" and "U-Boat Terror" variants in which it is presumed that Britain did not manage Dunkirk and North Africa went poorly, resulting in a serious draw down of British land, sea, and air forces in India. I think the U-Boat terror is going to delay reinforcements from the Atlantic. Quite startling how weak India is. Other than a light cruiser force with destroyers in Columbo, the Prince of Wales and Repulse is all there is for the navy. I don't know what the historical land deployment was in India, but what I have now looks terribly weak.

The first week went quickly. I consolidated the U.S. Fleet around Pearl and am cleaning up that mess. I hadn't realized it, but the Japanese apparently did go after the oil storage depots there because I only have 10k gallons of fuel there! I've loaded up a bunch of tankers in California to fix that problem. The Philippines have been hit heavily by air power and, though the P-40s have been holding there own, they are being attrited rapidly. I'm down to 38 serviceable a/c. The B-17s have made a couple of runs at shipping but havent' hit anything. As for production, I nixed the F4U because, according to game stats, the Hellcat is about as capable, and the manufacturing screen indicates that pushing R&D from the F4U will accelerate introduction of the Hellcat by four months. That's quite a reward, so I went that way. Sorry if others disagree, but then you can do your own AAR and do something different!

I just watched the Japanese second week move. It's obvious now that it's taking advantage of the weakened British position and is doing an "India First" strategy. An invasion fleet just steamed by the Philippines escorted by two unidentified CVL's. The B-17s and A20s lit out after them with a piddly escort. The P-40s gave as good as they got, and I only lost three bombers. The B-17s were, once again, worthless, and even from 12,000 the crews could hear the Japanese laughing. The A-20s did better as I put them on the skip-bombing routine, and one of the groups had an experience rating of 76. They managed a total of five hits with 500 lbs. bombs, and one transport turned turtle. But they cruised on by with no other losses. I may have missed a heavy escort force: I didn't see anything, but I can't believe that the force I saw is going to try and make it by Singapore alone. The land forces in Indo-China also started moving south, so India and Singapore better watch out! Too bad I didn't have any subs in the area. I'll post some to get the Japanese on the return home.

Production is humming along smoothly. With no fuel oil at Pearl, I've got nothing to move to threatened areas, and I've tasked my available transports to haul additional rubber from Indonesia while it's still available. Then I . . .

Huh? :eek: What? Another dream??? Ah, sleep is such a wonderful things these days with visions of fleets and armies dancing before my eyes. :p The world is mine to conquer. Now, if they'd only get WitP out as well! Hey, need any beta testers to do some gaming while I'm actually awake?

Ah, yes, Mike. The old "buy this game so the next one will be better" routine. Okay, I'll buy three copies of UV.:D

(in reply to byron13)
Post #: 14
- 4/27/2002 12:21:10 AM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by byron13
[B]I thought California was in drydock. I remember California being somehow different. Maybe it was moored by itself at the end of the row. [/B][/QUOTE]

Pennsylvania was in drydock with 2 DD's Cassin and Downes. Both DD's were wrecked, but Pennsylvania was only lightly damaged.

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Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
(\../)
(O.o)
(> <)

CVB Langley:

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Post #: 15
- 4/27/2002 1:18:15 AM   
byron13


Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Admiral DadMan
[B]

Pennsylvania was in drydock with 2 DD's Cassin and Downes. Both DD's were wrecked, but Pennsylvania was only lightly damaged. [/B][/QUOTE]

Not in my game.

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Post #: 16
- 4/27/2002 7:21:00 AM   
Mike Wood


Posts: 2095
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Oakland, California
Status: offline 		Hello...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by byron13
[B]Ah, yes, Mike. The old "buy this game so the next one will be better" routine. Okay, I'll buy three copies of UV.:D [/B][/QUOTE]

Great. You will be three times blessed.

Gary has put a lot of work into the resource and ship building/replacement routines. I will be polishing them and adding the Matrix touch later in May and June. The design is pretty historical. No building ships classes from scratch like one might do in a grand strategy space conquest game.

The production routines do require resources, however, which is what the war is really all about anyway. Each location can have a number of resources of various types and factories manufacturing different items. I will be able to give you more detail once I have started working on that part of the code. we have noted suggestions from this forum, along the way, and will entertain more once we have a solid base of code.

Bye...

Michael Wood

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Post #: 17
Burned by my own sorcery - 4/27/2002 8:59:14 PM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		Good one Byron13. Repayment for my UV post earlier. Really hope some of us hardcore forum freaks get the nod to playtest WITP...it must be obvious that we have lots of time and take this gaming passion a tad too seriously. Go back to bed.:)

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Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

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Post #: 18
- 4/28/2002 4:58:40 AM   
byron13


Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline 		Yup, I hope so too. I can see where playtesting WitP will be more difficult since there are, presumably, many more subroutines to test out. Maybe the really dull stuff is done in earlier tests ("alpha testing?"), but I could see where some dumb schmuck is asked to concentrate on the production cycle by running 100 turns by the end of the week to make sure that the figure for rubber or steel points acts the way it is supposed to.

Anyway, Mike, Ron and I are hear for you, and the Ben Franklin is on the way to persuade you to put us at the front of the line.

I gather from your previous post that you actually waded through the several huge posts in which we, the public, argued over production issues. I hope we did give you all some ideas that will be incorporated - especially mine. Mine were the best. There really were some good ideas in those threads, though it was easy to get carried away.

Any thought being given to scenarios starting in '39, '40, or earlier '41 so that the Japanese can REALLY change history?

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Post #: 19
- 4/28/2002 4:23:23 PM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		Yup....Ready Aye Ready, Load Load Load, Arty Arty Arty, and so on and so forth...............................:D

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Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

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Post #: 20
Greetings - 5/3/2002 10:06:35 PM   
Kitakami


Posts: 1302
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
Status: offline 		Gentlemen,

When I read the first post in this thread I almost choked... I have been lurking on this board for a while, waiting for the call to beta Witp (and hoping my 22 years of experience as a carboard general/admiral might count for something).

Anyway, just wanted to say hi and that I have enjoyed (and learned from) your posts (yes, I read ALL of them).

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Post #: 21
Nickname - 5/3/2002 11:10:49 PM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		Let me guess, you like playing the "bad dudes?":D

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Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

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Post #: 22
Bad dudes - 5/3/2002 11:19:54 PM   
Kitakami


Posts: 1302
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
Status: offline 		Well, philosophically speaking, there are no inocents in war.

But you could say that yes, I like to play the Axis side in WWII, and the South in the US Civil War... must be some strange type of animal, but at least I tend to give opponents a good run for their money :)

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Post #: 23
Hi Kitakami - 5/4/2002 4:56:42 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, Hey Kitakami don't let that mean old Canuck scare you. I like your nickname (Kitakami and Oi are 2 of my favorite ships)
We play wargames. If they were political games and we picked these regimes we might be suspect.

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

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Post #: 24
Japanese ships - 5/4/2002 6:13:12 AM   
Kitakami


Posts: 1302
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
Status: offline 		Hi Mogami!

A man after my own heart, one with a good name! ;)

I think the Oi and the Kitakami, like the other 6 torpedo cruisers (although not so heavily loaded) show much of what the Japanese had to do with limited resources. Sinkable? Definitely, but don't let them catch you unaware in a night surface engagement...

Anyway, thanks for the welcome.

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Post #: 25
TF sizes - 5/4/2002 7:05:20 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, the problem the IJN faces in War-games is the TF sizes are always so large. I like to make smaller TF but then you always run in allied ones that are maxed. (I am speaking of PacWar) hopefully this will be negated a little in WitP by strict fuel rules.
Or limiting leaders to what they can control (higher rated leaders can control a larger TF then lower rated leader) My gripe being there is very little opportunity for small IJN TF's to inflict damage without themselves being destroyed. Still it is a tactic i employ especially in Solomon's area. I send TF of 2-3 CL and 6-8 DD they encounter allied TF of 4 BB 6CA 2 CL and 3groups of DD (3-15)
my force is severely damaged but sometimes manages to sink a BB or CA worth more then my combined TF. In Witp I hope to be able to produce more CL (I don't think I would try to build anything much larger) Japanese CL's are very strange ships compared to allied (esp British) some British CL were larger then some British CA. Japanese CL are mostly just super DD. And the game scale usally does not allow for successfull small TF employment.

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

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Post #: 26
- 5/4/2002 8:28:01 AM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		I have seen the campaign map as I suppose everybody has.

I would have thought the full campaign would start with the Japanese fighting the Russians/Chinese during the 1930's.

Pearl Harbour/Malaya only happened some years later.

The attacks on Pearl Harbour and Malaya were simultaneous.

(in reply to byron13)
Post #: 27
Mogami!!! - 5/4/2002 10:15:39 AM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		Mean old Canuck? Sheesh! Well, maybe somewhat on Canadian Club.:rolleyes:

What do you mean, IJN CL's are strange? The small ones were simply old designs (with the exception of the somewhat rvolutionary design, Yubari), not much different than the British C and D classes and the American junk piles known as the Omaha class. Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Brooklyn and Southampton class CLs built to counter the MOGAMI class of CL?:D The fact that they were rapidly upgunned from 5 triple 6" to 5 twin 8" turrets (making them less effective in night engagements due to the slower rate of fire as it turned out) does not change this fact. Mogami, you of all people...:D :D :D

_____________________________





Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

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Post #: 28
- 5/15/2002 12:02:09 AM   
byron13


Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline 		I kind of wonder what AAR's will look like in WitP. It could be that the game is so massive and with so much going on that the playtester will not be able to keep track of it all or transcribe it in a reasonable amount of space. The playtester will almost certainly not be able to describe each battle in the kind of detail to which we've grown accustomed. Will we be satisfied?

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Post #: 29
Hi! - 5/15/2002 12:24:26 AM   
U2


Posts: 3332
Joined: 7/17/2001
From: Västerås,Sweden
Status: offline 		Hi!

Satisfied? Yes I think so. I went to the PACWAR forum yesterday and someone had posted AARs!!! WHY!? Well anyway I read some and it was quite well done and redable. But no future game will have the sort of great AARs that we all read and loved at the UV forum.

Dan

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Post #: 30
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