Army Commanders - Limit Movablity

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Army Commanders - Limit Movablity - 12/7/2008 7:23:00 PM

Capt Cliff

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Ok ... I attacked Memphis with Grant and low and behold Bobby Lee shows up and kicks butt. No doubt teleported by the CSA Enterprises transporters!!! Shsst give me a break!! Lee was in Virginia the previous month then shows up to command the defense of Memphis. Come on!!! He's have to move across the country in 1862 with limited rail, the south rail lines were not contiguous. There was a gap in Georgia I think. He would also have to bring his staff. He's has to take over a bunch of westerners who would resent his inteference and be slow to follow orders. Remember the army command structure back then and now was and is the ole boy net, they knew each other from West Point. Also Lee was unproven and was called the King of Spades and Granny Lee until he handed McCellan his head for the first time in the peninsual campaign. He would never leave Virginia, his country, which was detrimental to the Southern cause! They were not a UNion. Why should they act like a Union ... they were a Confederacy. A louse organization of STATES!!! Only in late 64 did they see the light but by then it was too late.

Split the maps into Eastern and Western theaters, physical boundries, and leaders lose all abilities for one month when then move from or change theaters. That similates them getting up to speed with local events. Make TC attached to that theater and the AC attached to that TC and it take 1 month to reassign them. Also some TC's can only have 2 AC's ... while others can have more. I put 3 AC's in the west and one in the east. But Fremont could never coordinate 3 armies, Halleck maybe.

A house rule on this would work for HvH but to play the computer now is strictly fantasy island and no fun, because so ahistoric!!!

My 2 cents worth .... still in all a great game but we need it tweeked a bit.

< Message edited by Capt Cliff -- 12/7/2008 7:24:12 PM >

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RE: Army Commanders - Limit Movablity - 12/8/2008 1:25:07 AM

Doc o War

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We have been arguing/and discussing Lee going west through the beta testers forum for some time - and the new 1.30 patch does raise Lees Mortality level if he comes West- nothing worse than having Lee get sick or Die right in midst of the vital campaign.

If you feel strongly enough, and your opponent agrees, and are gentlemen- you can simply apply a house rule- >>No Lee in the West- though I would counter with- ok- No Grant in the East until 1864 also- just for balance.

I dont play the AI so I dont know if we could program all this into the system- as what you are suggesting would take some major coding and reprograming. Not saying that they are not good ideas- there should be some effect of transfering theaters with commanders. A delay of some sort would be best- or maybe- takes all their op points to transfer for a month- something- so no attaching forces etc- but that is a coding problem.

For now a simple Gents agreement would seem to be the only option- and only if playing human to human- which is so much more challenging.

They had a one, two and three cent piece in those times also- Har

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RE: Army Commanders - Limit Movablity - 12/8/2008 7:22:09 PM

Capt Cliff

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Doc o War

We have been arguing/and discussing Lee going west�through the beta testers forum for some time��- and the new 1.30�patch does raise Lees Mortality level if he comes West- nothing worse than having Lee get sick or Die right in midst of the vital campaign.

If you feel strongly enough, and your opponent agrees, and are gentlemen- you can simply apply a house rule- >>No Lee in the West- though I would counter with- ok- No Grant in the East until 1864 also- just for balance.

I dont play the AI so I dont know if we could program all this into the system- as what you are suggesting would take some major coding and reprograming. Not saying that they are not good ideas- there should be some effect of transfering theaters with commanders. A delay of some sort would be best- or maybe- takes all their op points to transfer for a month- something- so no attaching forces etc- but that is a coding problem.

For now a simple Gents agreement would seem to be the only option- and only if playing human to human- which is so much more challenging.

They had a one, two and three cent piece in those times also- Har

I think you missed my point. The union or the North was a homogenious entity, leaders can go anywhere, while the south or CSA was a lose confederation with leaders defending there state. There is a line from Ken Burn's Civil War about some southern governor hording uniforms for only his state units. Also the moving of a leader to a hot spot, since the CSA moves second (IGOUGO vs WEGO) is very modern with fast transportaion and instant communication. I my case how would the south know to move Lee to Memphis? Intell was not that good during the Civil War. AC's need to be tide to a TC and a transfer is not instanteous. TC's need to be linked to a theater.

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RE: Army Commanders - Limit Movablity - 12/8/2008 9:56:20 PM

Treefrog

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I haven't played Federal against the AI since the rule change increasing Lee's mortality rating if outside the Eastern Theatre. Does the AI still move Lee to the Western Theatre?

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RE: Army Commanders - Limit Movablity - 12/9/2008 12:22:51 AM

Capt Cliff

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Treefrog

I haven't played Federal against the AI since the rule change increasing Lee's mortality rating if outside the Eastern Theatre. Does the AI still move Lee to the Western Theatre?

Yes ...

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RE: Army Commanders - Limit Movablity - 12/9/2008 12:35:40 AM

Erik Rutins

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Just attack in the East and in the West on the same turn. Lee can do many things, but he can't be in two places at once.

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RE: Army Commanders - Limit Movablity - 12/9/2008 4:18:33 PM

Rexor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Just attack in the East and in the West on the same turn. Lee can do many things, but he can't be in two places at once.

Still, couldn't a simple fix for this be made in a patch? I just bought this game, and play exclusively against the computer due to time constraints. Rapidly shifting generals seems like a bust to me.

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RE: Army Commanders - Limit Movablity - 12/9/2008 7:25:31 PM

Capt Cliff

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Just attack in the East and in the West on the same turn. Lee can do many things, but he can't be in two places at once.

If your lucky enought to get both east and west activated then yes but that don't happen that often.

Tieing the AC to a TC is the answer. It takes one turn/month for him to reappear, like being wounded, when attached to a different TC. Basically he is in transit and then doing his AC thing as far as units under his command, logistic's, etc. TC's should also have an AC's help limit to a max of 3 AC's for Halleck and Scott, maybe a function of half the Admin ability.

But to have these AC's unplug and move 1500 miles in a week, because the rest of the turn is fighting the battle, and plugging in ready to go for 1860's is a bit much.

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RE: Army Commanders - Limit Movablity - 12/9/2008 7:48:27 PM

PhilipB

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Folks,

Evis lives ! Elvis in Boats , Elvis in Boats ! The Sailing Elvis / Lee...
Gaming the Game to maintain historic accuracy.... What a concept.

NoVa 538

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RE: Army Commanders - Limit Movablity - 12/10/2008 7:03:51 PM

Capt Cliff

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PhilipB

Folks,

Evis lives !� Elvis in Boats , Elvis in Boats !� The Sailing Elvis / Lee...
Gaming the Game to maintain historic accuracy.... What a concept.

NoVa 538

Like dah! Make your comments constructive not destructive there sport!

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RE: Army Commanders - Limit Movablity - 12/11/2008 6:21:43 AM

Doc o War

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I just assume the fellow has used his inner voice and didnt see that it was typing- perhaps this is a song and we just dont know it...?

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RE: Army Commanders - Limit Movablity - 12/11/2008 4:14:45 PM

Erik Rutins

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rexor
Still, couldn't a simple fix for this be made in a patch? I just bought this game, and play exclusively against the computer due to time constraints. Rapidly shifting generals seems like a bust to me.

I don't quite follow - this is not a bug nor is it against the design, nor was it impossible historically. I can understand how it might be frustrating that the AI or opponent did the shift at just the right time, but it happens. Playing with limited command point recovery can also help reduce shifts in general.

The general has to be there at the start of the turn as well in order to actually command the army, so if he was moved, then for one turn an army was effectively sitting around waiting for a commander. This is easier for the CSA on the defensive than for the USA, but there is a cost to it as far as losing mobile operations for that turn.

< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 12/11/2008 4:16:50 PM >

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RE: Army Commanders - Limit Movablity - 12/11/2008 7:25:10 PM

GShock

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From: San Francisco, CA - USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rexor

Still, couldn't a simple fix for this be made in a patch? I just bought this game, and play exclusively against the computer due to time constraints. Rapidly shifting generals seems like a bust to me.

It is not as simple as it seems Rexor. There's already a traced path with Lee having been increased the mortality rating when changing theater and every change has to be thoroughlly tested before it can be implemented with no harm. It's like a cascade...you change this and this this and this are affected...takes a bit of time and this request, along with many others, is already on the wishlist. Cross fingers.

]

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RE: Army Commanders - Limit Movablity - 12/11/2008 7:36:36 PM

Capt Cliff

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rexor
Still, couldn't a simple fix for this be made in a patch? I just bought this game, and play exclusively against the computer due to time constraints. Rapidly shifting generals seems like a bust to me.

I don't quite follow - this is not a bug nor is it against the design, nor was it impossible historically. I can understand how it might be frustrating that the AI or opponent did the shift at just the right time, but it happens. Playing with limited command point recovery can also help reduce shifts in general.

The general has to be there at the start of the turn as well in order to actually command the army, so if he was moved, then for one turn an army was effectively sitting around waiting for a commander. This is easier for the CSA on the defensive than for the USA, but there is a cost to it as far as losing mobile operations for that turn.

Erik, I beg to differ. With monthly turns I still find it hard to believe a commander on the east coast could pick up, staff an all, and move to say Memphis, then conduct a defensive campaign against invaders that have been on the move for at least two weeks. I must admit that Beauregard did move east after Bull Run to help Albert Sydney Johnson fight Shilo, but he didn't leave Richmond on April 1 or even March 1. A wego system would be better to show that the transfered leader may show up too late for the "big" battle, but we have the IgoUgo system, which is ok, but we need some restriction on redeploying leaders, perhaps an option rule about assigning AC's to TC's and that it takes say one month for the new AC to get up to speed, find all the maps (or lack of), learn the first names of all their sub-commanders, find where the best BBQ rib place is ... etc. An optional rule that imposes these restriction might be the best way.

I was just wondering that maybe Lee was not an AC at that time but merely the senior commander on the field. Meaning no AC was present. Does all his bonuses still apply to all the leaders in the area? He by defacto become AC for a day!

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RE: Army Commanders - Limit Movablity - 12/11/2008 9:00:10 PM

PhilipB

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FYI

It was a takeoff on "Elvis is everywhere " by Mojo Nixon. Thought it was appropriate at the time.

Nova538

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RE: Army Commanders - Limit Movablity - 12/11/2008 11:51:05 PM

Capt Cliff

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PhilipB

FYI

It was a takeoff on "Elvis is everywhere " by Mojo Nixon.� Thought it was appropriate at the time.

Nova538

Oh ... before my time ...

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RE: Army Commanders - Limit Movablity - 12/12/2008 12:57:00 AM

Pford

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt Cliff

Erik, I beg to differ. With monthly turns I still find it hard to believe a commander on the east coast could pick up, staff an all, and move to say Memphis, then conduct a defensive campaign against invaders that have been on the move for at least two weeks.

Didn't Grant pick up and leave Vicksburg in the Fall of 63, arrive with staff in Tennessee and, after sacking the existing general on the spot, win the Battle of Chattanooga within a few weeks?

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RE: Army Commanders - Limit Movablity - 12/12/2008 1:17:49 AM

orabera

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And that may have the only time during the Civil War where an Army commander left his command short of death, serious wounding, capture, promotion, or being relieved of command.

I'm not against Army commanders moving around, but there must be a price to make it as unusual occurrence as it was in real life.

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RE: Army Commanders - Limit Movablity - 12/12/2008 8:27:41 AM

Doc o War

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Well this is being discussed- this moving of generals between theaters- and It's likely it will be looked at seriously if I know the guys involved here- they are working hard behind the scenes to address all this right now, I think they said when 1.30 came out that some of the items they were considering for the next patch would start to be looked into around Christmas- well Ho�ho Ho- �and well- anything is still possible with this game. The engine is good- and the process is in a pretty constant flux- the game has been out six months and is now�in the midst with this 1.30 patch, with some�major morphing having happened,�so I would assume that more advanced torquing is on the horizon yet.

So stick with this and I wagger in a year we will be playing a pretty well developed game.

And Elvis is only everywhere if you live in las Vegas. I suppose?

< Message edited by Doc o War -- 12/12/2008 8:28:27 AM >

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RE: Army Commanders - Limit Movablity - 12/12/2008 8:58:38 AM

GShock

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There's a LOT more in discussion for next patch than the mere moving of AC, trust me and you'll all like it

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RE: Army Commanders - Limit Movablity - 12/15/2008 7:15:05 PM

Capt Cliff

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pford

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt Cliff

Erik, I beg to differ. With monthly turns I still find it hard to believe a commander on the east coast could pick up, staff an all, and move to say Memphis, then conduct a defensive campaign against invaders that have been on the move for at least two weeks.

Didn't Grant pick up and leave Vicksburg in the Fall of 63, arrive with staff in Tennessee and, after sacking the existing general on the spot, win the Battle of Chattanooga within a few weeks?

Technically moving Grant from Vicksburg to Chattanoga is not that far. He was still in the west, all the commanders knew him, he was up against Bragg, it was a seige and he had no where to go but up. But moving Lee from Richmond to Memphis during a manuever campaign is not the same.

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