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RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 10/14/2008 12:28:48 AM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline 		There has been a function since the original game that undefended bases will change hands if there are enemy units in the area.  It's some kind of random event that causes the switch.  I haven't looked at the code for the conditions under which it happens.

So if the Japanese abandon a base in Burma and the Allies don't get around to moving a unit there, it will probably change hands back to the Allies eventually.

Bill


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Post #: 511
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 10/14/2008 1:40:10 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		I understand that, but I thought his question was different. I thought he was asking about when Japan is on the offensive early in the war and blows right through Moulmein with units that keep advancing toward the next target, perhaps even chasing Allied units. That being the case the closest units would be Japanese.

However, the closest bases might be Allied - would that make a difference?

I might have misinterpreted, but that's what I thought he meant.

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Post #: 512
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 10/14/2008 5:48:35 AM   
rockmedic109

 

Posts: 2390
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From: Citrus Heights, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I understand that, but I thought his question was different. I thought he was asking about when Japan is on the offensive early in the war and blows right through Moulmein with units that keep advancing toward the next target, perhaps even chasing Allied units. That being the case the closest units would be Japanese.

However, the closest bases might be Allied - would that make a difference?

I might have misinterpreted, but that's what I thought he meant.

Yes, that is what I meant. The way the CHS map is, moving up from Moulmein, the unit moves one hex up the road/rail and has to move back down to Rangoon. Rangoon is is the same distance to Moulmein as the Japanese yet because of the river and the Japanese would have to move by sea to get to Moulmein. The auto check for change in ownership changes ownership back to the allies forcing the Japanese AI to keep moving back to retake Moulmein despite the fact they would be blocked by the Japanese.

A strong defense at Rangoon might be the culprit. I am not privy to the code, but perhaps the code looks at the number of men at a base to determine the auto change. In my game I moved the Burmese units to Rangoon and fortified the city. Japanese came with one Division and eventually some armor {I think} and did not have enough to take Rangoon.

Dropping the auto change and going to last unit ownership would fix this problem, but I do not know if it would cause others. The Auto change is a nice idea, but it appears to be broken by the terrain surrounding Rangoon.

< Message edited by rockmedic109 -- 10/14/2008 5:50:56 AM >

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Post #: 513
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 10/14/2008 8:17:29 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Maybe auto change should go by supply/LCU movement distance instead of distance as the crow flies. That would cause the calculation to use the same roads, etc as the LCU's instead of telepathy through the jungle.

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Post #: 514
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 11/21/2008 10:28:55 PM   
Jorm


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Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Melbourne
Status: offline 		Hi Andrew

what 'off map' areas will be available

i see Panama in the screen shots,
how about aden and madagasca ?


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Post #: 515
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 11/21/2008 10:54:08 PM   
Andrew Brown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorm

Hi Andrew

what 'off map' areas will be available

i see Panama in the screen shots,
how about aden and madagasca ?




Hi Jorm,

No Madagascar. The off map areas are: Panama, North American East coast (USA/Canada), Port Stanley (Falkland Islands), Cape Town (SA), Mombasa (East Africa), Aden, Aabadan (Persian Gulf), UK.

Andrew

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Post #: 516
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 11/22/2008 1:54:07 PM   
John Lansford

 

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Status: offline 		Will the off map areas have the capability to repair ships, or are they just staging areas for where ships will first arrive?

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Post #: 517
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 11/23/2008 8:33:03 PM   
Andrew Brown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

Will the off map areas have the capability to repair ships, or are they just staging areas for where ships will first arrive?


A few do have repair capability.

Andrew

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Post #: 518
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 11/24/2008 1:06:50 AM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		Interesting Off-Map areas.

Why Port Stanley?

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Post #: 519
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 11/24/2008 1:42:09 AM   
JeffroK


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Status: offline 		Cos it was a refueling point for ships doing the Cape Horn route.

Maybe a bit less in Oil fired rather than Coal fired days.

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Post #: 520
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 11/24/2008 4:21:12 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

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Status: offline 		Mainly to represent the ability of going through the Straights of Magellan I should think.

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Post #: 521
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 11/24/2008 4:37:47 AM   
Andrew Brown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Mainly to represent the ability of going through the Straights of Magellan I should think.


Yes, that's why it is there. It is another entry point into the Pacific (which involves long distance sailing).

Andrew

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Post #: 522
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 11/24/2008 4:40:25 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		I gather that there's varying time periods for transfers between the different of-map areas? 

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Post #: 523
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 11/24/2008 10:17:05 AM   
Andrew Brown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

I gather that there's varying time periods for transfers between the different of-map areas? 


Yes, based on the sailing distances to the off-map bases.

Andrew

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Post #: 524
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 11/24/2008 12:17:02 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		Will there be a "chance to" in way of risking going from England to theatre via the Suez Canal?

The Rhona was sunk in the Med enroute to Kowloon via India.

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Post #: 525
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 11/24/2008 8:44:23 PM   
Andrew Brown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Will there be a "chance to" in way of risking going from England to theatre via the Suez Canal?

The Rhona was sunk in the Med enroute to Kowloon via India.


No. This sort of thing was considered (such as having "U-boats", either real or simulated, attack ships moving between "off-map" areas) but we decided to leave it out. Too many other things to do, and this is "War in the Pacific", after all.

Andrew

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Post #: 526
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 11/24/2008 10:36:31 PM   
Chad Harrison


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

Hi Jorm,

No Madagascar. The off map areas are: Panama, North American East coast (USA/Canada), Port Stanley (Falkland Islands), Cape Town (SA), Mombasa (East Africa), Aden, Aabadan (Persian Gulf), UK.

Andrew


Will they function the same as 'normal' on map bases? Or will they play a little differently?

For instance, the offmap base Port Stanley would represent just a single base, airfield and so on. However, the East Coast or the United Kingdom would represent a huge number of ports, airfields and troop bases/staging areas and unlimited storage capacity for anything (troops, ships, aircraft, supplies, ect.).

So will they be represented by something more than 'East Coast: Size 10 Airfield, Size 10 Port'? Also, will they have their own 'base forces' so we can store planes and troops there to refit?

Thanks in advance.

Chad

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Post #: 527
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 11/24/2008 10:52:45 PM   
Andrew Brown


Posts: 5007
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From: Hex 82,170
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison
Will they function the same as 'normal' on map bases? Or will they play a little differently?

For instance, the offmap base Port Stanley would represent just a single base, airfield and so on. However, the East Coast or the United Kingdom would represent a huge number of ports, airfields and troop bases/staging areas and unlimited storage capacity for anything (troops, ships, aircraft, supplies, ect.).

So will they be represented by something more than 'East Coast: Size 10 Airfield, Size 10 Port'? Also, will they have their own 'base forces' so we can store planes and troops there to refit?

Thanks in advance.

Chad


They are just bases, like on-map ones. There is no special code for them. Most of them do have their own (static) base forces. There is nothing stopping the Allied player from moving other base forces (or any other unit) there if he wants to, however.

Keep in mind that the facilities at these bases is not the sum total of the actual facilities present, but the portion of those facilities made available for the Pacific campaign. For example, the "UK" base has a size 100 repair yard. In reality there would be well over a thousand points of repair yards in the UK, but only 100 points are available for repairing ships sent there from the Pacific/CBI theatres - all of the rest is considered to be allocated to other priorities.

Andrew

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Post #: 528
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 11/24/2008 11:38:21 PM   
Chad Harrison


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

They are just bases, like on-map ones. There is no special code for them. Most of them do have their own (static) base forces. There is nothing stopping the Allied player from moving other base forces (or any other unit) there if he wants to, however.

Keep in mind that the facilities at these bases is not the sum total of the actual facilities present, but the portion of those facilities made available for the Pacific campaign. For example, the "UK" base has a size 100 repair yard. In reality there would be well over a thousand points of repair yards in the UK, but only 100 points are available for repairing ships sent there from the Pacific/CBI theatres - all of the rest is considered to be allocated to other priorities.

Andrew


Thanks for the reply Andrew. Nice to see these additions well thought out and the greatest effort made to have this game represent reality in every way possible.

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Post #: 529
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 11/25/2008 12:07:54 AM   
Don Bowen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

...They are just bases, like on-map ones. There is no special code for them. ...

Andrew




Said the man that did not have to write the off map TF movement code.




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Post #: 530
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 11/25/2008 1:38:32 AM   
Andrew Brown


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From: Hex 82,170
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

...They are just bases, like on-map ones. There is no special code for them. ...

Andrew




Said the man that did not have to write the off map TF movement code.






Touché!

Andrew

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Post #: 531
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 11/25/2008 4:58:45 AM   
witpqs


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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

...They are just bases, like on-map ones. There is no special code for them. ...

Andrew



Said the man that did not have to write the off map TF movement code.



He meant that for a talented programmer like you it was nothing special.

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Post #: 532
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 11/25/2008 9:32:19 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison

Will they function the same as 'normal' on map bases? Or will they play a little differently?

For instance, the offmap base Port Stanley would represent just a single base, airfield and so on. However, the East Coast or the United Kingdom would represent a huge number of ports, airfields and troop bases/staging areas and unlimited storage capacity for anything (troops, ships, aircraft, supplies, ect.).

So will they be represented by something more than 'East Coast: Size 10 Airfield, Size 10 Port'? Also, will they have their own 'base forces' so we can store planes and troops there to refit?

Thanks in advance.

Chad



Off map bases can not be attacked by IJN forces in any way. Yes they have base forces and yes you can add troops if you want. They have sizes just like on map bases. And yes, the "east coast" is 1 "base" (as is the UK a single "base").

Edit: And allied air units based in them can not affect the on-map area at all.

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Post #: 533
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 11/25/2008 3:22:58 PM   
Chad Harrison


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From: Boise, ID - USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Off map bases can not be attacked by IJN forces in any way. Yes they have base forces and yes you can add troops if you want. They have sizes just like on map bases. And yes, the "east coast" is 1 "base" (as is the UK a single "base").

Edit: And allied air units based in them can not affect the on-map area at all.



With that in mind, I suppose having 3000 aircraft sitting on the 'East Coast' base isnt really an issue.

Personally, the offmap bases and movement is one of the biggest improvements in AE in my opinion.

Did we mention we are anxious for this game?

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Post #: 534
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/10/2008 11:50:43 AM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		Guys,

A query on Leyte. From reading a few books (most recently Hastings' Nemesis) it appears the general consensus is that Leyte was NOT a suitable place for construction of and provision of oddles of runways and planes. Quite simply put the marshy environment made any construction of hard runways if not impossible highly problematic and improbable for extensive use.

Does Leyte have a lower Airfield SPS than in Stock?

Regards,

Steven

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Post #: 535
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/10/2008 12:04:18 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		Maybe linked to the last question..IRL the area around Darwin had maybe 20 airfields, and since each hex equals more than just that one location, will more bases in each hex equal a higher initial aircraft capability?




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by m10bob -- 12/10/2008 12:07:43 PM >

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RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/10/2008 2:43:25 PM   
herwin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

Guys,

A query on Leyte. From reading a few books (most recently Hastings' Nemesis) it appears the general consensus is that Leyte was NOT a suitable place for construction of and provision of oddles of runways and planes. Quite simply put the marshy environment made any construction of hard runways if not impossible highly problematic and improbable for extensive use.

Does Leyte have a lower Airfield SPS than in Stock?

Regards,

Steven


The pre-war planning was to invade at Davao, particularly if the garrison had been able to hold on. Leyte was chosen instead. This was to establish a fleet base, not an airbase.

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Post #: 537
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/10/2008 3:12:55 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
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Status: offline 		Not according to what i've read. They planned to stage 100's of Kenney's planes there AFAIK to cover the invasion of Luzon.

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Post #: 538
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/10/2008 3:19:05 PM   
Terminus


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Status: offline 		MacArthur wanted to put airbases on Leyte. That was his whole reasoning for choosing it in the first place, and he predictably ignored intelligence that most of the island would be submerged in mud once the rains came.

Douchebag...

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Post #: 539
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/10/2008 3:38:47 PM   
herwin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

MacArthur wanted to put airbases on Leyte. That was his whole reasoning for choosing it in the first place, and he predictably ignored intelligence that most of the island would be submerged in mud once the rains came.

Douchebag...


Morison says something similar (politely). However, the two suitable locations for a large fleet base in the southern Philippines were Leyte and Mindinao.

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