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Another RR observation - 12/11/2008 2:32:00 AM   
GIJim

 

Posts: 76
Joined: 1/28/2007
Status: offline 		Why can't units destroy/damage RRs. This was a major objective for the Union during the war. Remember the "Jefferson Davis Nectie" when they would heat the rails and rap them around a tree. Anyway, in the War Between the States board game, if a unit didn't move during one turn it could damage the RR in that province. The game also allowed for building RR Repair Units who could repair these in a turn. You could do the same with the engineer attribute.

What do you other guys think?

Just an observation.

GIJim
Post #: 1
RE: Another RR observation - 12/11/2008 9:04:20 AM   
Mutation2241

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 9/25/2008
Status: offline 		Me thinks its a great suggestion, actually I was always regretting that Raiders and Scout units (or cavalry in general) were incapable of destroying any R.R. lines (only block movements). Would be a very significant improvement if they could do so, f.e. the entire Mobile & Ohio RR was destroyed in the CW along many other lines. You name it, a repair option could be included too.

(in reply to GIJim)
Post #: 2
RE: Another RR observation - 12/11/2008 5:23:42 PM   
Gil R.


Posts: 10821
Joined: 4/1/2005
Status: offline 		This is, of course, something that we seriously considered when initially designing the game. However, we decided against it because it struck us as likely to be considered micromanaging by too many players. We wanted FOF players at the strategic level to focus on other matters than having to rebuild a stretch of rail. So instead, we have the rules that units stationed along a rail line can block it, and that raiders and partisans in particular can subtract RR movement points. This simulates that strategic importance of railroads without forcing many players to engage in what to them would be micromanaging them.

(in reply to Mutation2241)
Post #: 3
RE: Another RR observation - 12/11/2008 6:56:48 PM   
GIJim

 

Posts: 76
Joined: 1/28/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks for your quick resonse Gil. Destoying the Southern infrastructure was a major objective of the Union as well as raids by Forrest, Morgan, and others. I'm not convinced major objectives should be characterized as "micro-managing". Just an observation.

In addition, posting a unit on a RR that opposing units are using during RR movement should be given some kind of major bonus for an ambush as happened at 2nd Bull Run where an entire New Jersey brigade was destroyed by a battery of artillery and the 15th Alabama Regiment.

I don't know, like I said, just an observation. The game is great and I love it. Peter is moving entire armies around like airmobile units all over the map when I know this didn't happen during the war; especially in territory that I control. I don't know why I shouldn't be able to damage the RR and move on requiring him time to, at least, slow down to repair the RR.

Again, great game. I'm not complaining, just making suggestions.

GIJim

(in reply to Gil R.)
Post #: 4
RE: Another RR observation - 12/11/2008 7:55:42 PM   
Kingmaker

 

Posts: 1678
Joined: 12/27/2007
Status: offline 		HiHi

Jim my rail movements don't automatically succeed, far from it, in fact I have had far to many instances were troops, both Armies & individual Bgds, fail to move at all, often to my detrement!

As I keep banging on about , it is to my mind a major flaw in the PBEM game that Rebs can't set their Raiders to choose their targets or even not attack at all, just sit accross the rail network with a 50% chance of stoping Rail movement in that province.

As mentioned, as Rebs I invest heavily in RR's and pray to the Great God 'Choo, Choo, Puff' for 'Centralized railways' as my 1st Logistics upgrade, I have merely carried that policy over to feds for my 1st bash as them, as it seems good sence to me to have as higher level of mobility as pos, you have chosen to take the Centralised Railways upgrade but have not invested anything in RR that I can see, you have prioritiesed other things, fine you ain't doing too badly for it ... ... at the moment

PS, from a historicaly pure point of veiw, Rebs didn't attcually capture major Cities either, yet you are warming your toes in enough of mine!

All the Best
Peter

(in reply to GIJim)
Post #: 5
RE: Another RR observation - 12/12/2008 7:54:52 AM   
GIJim

 

Posts: 76
Joined: 1/28/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks Peter for the response. Raiders were simply a nuisance during the war. Although Mosby. Quantrell, and even Morgan were lionanized by the North and glorified by the South they had no significant impact on the war. The larger units damaging and destroying railroads had a major impact on troop movement and logistics and, in my opinion, is not reflected in the game. While Lee's men in Petersburg had no clothes to wear, there were 60,000 uniforms neatly folded in warehouses in Selma, Alabama. Contrary to the Yankee newspapers, the prisoners in Andersonville weren't being fed and clothed properly because the South couldn't get supplies to them, not because of malice. The war was won by the destruction of the Southern economy and infrastructure as much as on the battlefield.

By the way, ole Jeff Davis didn't want aggressive moves by his southern generals early in the war while hoping for a peaceful solution. I hold no similiar delusions. As you know, I scoff at the idea of a defensive war. But thanks for the compliment. You are a worthy opponent.

(in reply to Kingmaker)
Post #: 6
RE: Another RR observation - 12/14/2008 7:16:58 AM   
Gil R.


Posts: 10821
Joined: 4/1/2005
Status: offline 		GIJim,
I do understand what you're saying. How we handle RR is something we would certainly reevaluate if/when we do a FOF expansion.

Another idea that was once suggested is to add a new building type, a Railroad Junction, which would provide more RR movement points but also be a meatier target for destruction. That might help with what you're suggesting, if we gave Raiders/Partisans the option of "plundering" (and thus destroying) such a building, whereas right now only armies/corps/divisions can destroy buildings. That would be a way of adding the dimension you would like to see, without the micromanaging of having to decide, "I'll build a track between Murfreesboro and Nashville." We didn't want FOF to be a game of laying down specific railroad lines, and I doubt our overall view on that would change.

(in reply to GIJim)
Post #: 7
RE: Another RR observation - 12/14/2008 3:34:05 PM   
GIJim

 

Posts: 76
Joined: 1/28/2007
Status: offline 		Gil, Thanks for your consideration. Again, no major complaints--great game.

Jim

(in reply to Gil R.)
Post #: 8
RE: Another RR observation - 12/17/2008 12:23:14 PM   
lawbreaker

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 6/27/2007
Status: offline 		 the wife and i have just recently bought forge of freedom and absolutely love it. however we also agree that it would be better if we could destroy railroads. we wouldnt want the option to actually build new railroads, just the option to destroy and repair existing ones.

(in reply to GIJim)
Post #: 9
RE: Another RR observation - 12/18/2008 4:05:59 PM   
gunny3013

 

Posts: 206
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline 		...please be careful that you are not making a tactical game of a stretegic one with the detailing of rail actions. 

(in reply to lawbreaker)
Post #: 10
RE: Another RR observation - 12/18/2008 6:31:04 PM   
lawbreaker

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 6/27/2007
Status: offline 		while i respect your opinion, i cant help but think that the awesome detailed battles make this game already a mix of strategic and tactical. which is what makes it so cool.

(in reply to gunny3013)
Post #: 11
RE: Another RR observation - 12/21/2008 1:57:59 AM   
gunny3013

 

Posts: 206
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline 		I enjoy the detailed battles too. Its breaking rail lines on the strat map that seems a bit much, especially since most of the rail lines are not even shown.

(in reply to lawbreaker)
Post #: 12
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