m10bob
Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Japan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Terminus
I most certainly meant it. You said that "Japan was no better or worse than other nations"
That spells R-E-V-I-S-I-O-N-I-S-T.
First of all, I think all war crimes are horrible, but I do not understand why you say that Japan's war crimes are so much more horrible then ie. Soviet's war crimes...? ... How much do you know about American or British large scale war crimes?
Have you ever hered what the New York Tribune called "French Death Camps", properbly not... read below..
I think ALL War Crimes are horrible, and the Axis nations for sure conducted the wast majorety of them,
I think Soviet is the Allied nation who conducted the most War Crimes, mostly in forms of Mass Rapes, Mass Killings and different experiments. Do you btw know how many vaccines the Allies as well as the Axis developed from the data collected by the huge quantetys of horrible experiments? (Not that i support it, but many peapole faind it unconfterble to know that alot of medicines today comes from experiments done in plases like Daccau and Auschwitz)
Forced Labour was evan used in mass scale by The Western Allies, And yes, evan USA, France, and UK used Forced labour, evan in Production chains in overseas factorys, or sanktioned the use of them. Just take a look below or at the references in the bottom.
Regardless, it is my opinion that any nation doing war crimes in any scale is equally bad as any other who does it.
I tend to get the impression that many peapole are unawere of the Allied War Crimes, so i post a few examples below.
Civilien Bombing by Japan as well as the Allies
Japan indeed murdered huge quanterys of civiliens but so did did the Allies in its Deliberate Allied Firebombings on both German as well as Japanese citys, or the deliberate Nuclar Attack on two Japanese Citys. -
When talking about War Crimes, The Geneva Convention of 1929, and also a reinforced Luege of Nations threaty of 1938 defines: "Deliberate targeting of Civiliens is to be considered the worst form for War Crimes noted in this threaty".
The Leuge of Nations vertion evan goes as far as saying that any nations who does this in large scale is to be expelled from the Leuge of Nations. Both the Japanese and Allies deliberetly targeted Civiliens, I think this is equally unaccepteble.
Mass Rapes by Japan as well as the Soviet
I also think that the Soviet Mass Rapes in Hungery, Bulgaria, Romania and especialy Germany are not better nor worse then the mass rapes Japan conducted in Asia.
Mass Executions by Japan as well as the Allies
The mass executions of POW's was also something the Allies did as well as Japan, The Number of POW's executed in Soviet is huge, its evan including
some 20 000 Polish Officers executed by Soviet Union, and huge numbers of German Prisioners, there were also mass executions conducted by American Troops
In Combat:
When we meet the enemy we will kill him. We will show him no mercy. He has killed thousands of our comrades and he must die. If your company officers is leading your men against the enemy find him shooting at you and when you get within two hundred yards of him he wishes to surrender – oh no! That bastard will die! You will kill him!
-George S. Patton
And unfortenetly also
The Dachau massacre, The Chenogne massacre, The Biscari massacre.. ect ect
"Eh Sir, We were committing the same crimes we were now accusing the Germans and Japs of doing"
"Shut Up soldier!"
Japan as well as the Allies Deliberetly denyed the Civilien Population Food in Mass Scale
American food policy in post-war Germany
Throughout all of 1945 the Allies forces of occupation ensured that no international aid reached ethnic Germans. It was directed that all relief went to non-German displaced persons, liberated Allied POWs, and concentration camp inmates.[
General Lucius Clay, then Deputy to General Eisenhower, stated “I feel that the Germans should suffer from hunger and from cold as I believe such suffering is necessary to make them realize the consequences of a war which they caused.”
The German Red Cross was dissolved, and the International Red Cross and the few other allowed international relief agencies were kept from helping Germans through strict controls on supplies and on travel. The few agencies permitted to help Germans, such as the indigenous Caritas Verband, were not allowed to use imported supplies. When the Vatican attempted to transmit food supplies from Chile to German infants the U.S. State Department forbade it.
During 1945 it was estimated that the average German civilian in the U.S. and the United Kingdom occupation zones received 1,200 calories a day. Meanwhile non-German Displaced Persons were receiving 2,300 calories through emergency food imports and Red Cross help. In early October 1945 the UK government privately acknowledged in a cabinet meeting that German civilian adult death rates had risen to four times the pre-war levels and death rates amongst the German children had risen by 10 times the pre-war levels. General Lucius Clay stated in October 1945 that:
“undoubtedly a large number of refugees have already died of starvation, exposure and disease…. The death rate in many places has increased several fold, and infant mortality is approaching 65 percent in many places. By the spring of 1946, German observers expect that epidemics and malnutrition
will claim 2.5 to 3 million victims between the Oder and Elbe.”
U.S. occupation forces were under strict orders not to share their food with the German population, and this also applied to their wives when they arrived later in the occupation. The women were under orders not to allow their German maids to get hold of any leftovers; "the food was to be destroyed or made inedible",
Japan as well as the Allies used forced Labour in Mass Scale
Eisenhower also did not oppose the transfers of POWs for forced labor. The topic of using Germans as forced labor was first broached at the Tehran conference, where Soviet premier Joseph Stalin demanded at least 4,000,000 German workers to repair enormous damage inflicted by German invasion on Soviet Union . It was included in the Morgenthau Plan and was finally included in the protocol of the Yalta conference where it was sanctioned by President Franklin D. Roosevelt. Although not included in the protocol of the Potsdam conference the policy was nevertheless later implemented de facto. In March 1947 4,000,000 Germans were being used as forced labor . General Eisenhower transferred several hundred thousands of POWs to the Soviets which used them, alongside Soviet captured POWs and German civilians, as forced laborers (See also Forced labor of Germans in the Soviet Union for the fate of the civilians). Death rates for the German civilians doing forced labor in the Soviet Union ranged between 19% - 39%, depending on category. Most German POW survivors of the forced labor camps in the Soviet Union were released in 1953. The last Germans were repatriated in 1956.
The U.S. used over 500,000 German POWs as forced labour in Germany in Military Labor Service Units. Great Britain used 225,000 Germans as forced labour. In addition to the 200,000 Germans held by French forces (and 70,000 held by France in Algeria), France demanded 1,700,000 POWs for use as forced labor”.
In July 1945 they were promised 1,300,000 POWs by the SHAEF. The number of actually delivered prisoners is debated, as is the number of surviving POWs eventually released by the French. General George S. Patton commented in his diary “I’m also opposed to sending POW’s to work as slaves in foreign lands (in particular, to France) where many will be starved to death.” He also noted “It is amusing to recall that we fought the revolution in defense of the rights of man and the civil war to abolish slavery and have now gone back on both principles”. On 12 October 1945 The New York Herald Tribune reported that the French were starving their POWs, and compared their emaciation to that of those liberated from the Dachau concentration camp. German prisoners were for example forced to clear minefields in France and the Low Countries. By December 1945 it was estimated by French authorities that 2,000 German prisoners were being killed or maimed each month in mine-clearing accidents. On 13 March 1947 the U.S. made an agreement with the French to the effect that roughly 450,000 German prisoners would be released, at a rate of 20,000 a month. This number included the roughly 200,000 prisoners the French had themselves captured. In Norway the last available casualty record, from August 29, 1945, shows that by that time a total of 275 German soldiers had been killed while clearing mines, while an additional 392 had been maimed.
In discussions between France and the US in early 1947 regarding whether France should begin repatriating its German prisoners it was noted that
of the 740,000 handed over by the U.S. to France for forced labor only 450,000 remained; 300,000 had been "stricken off the rolls".
There are no longer any surviving records showing which German POWs and Disarmed Enemy Forces were in U.S. custody prior to roughly September 1945. The early standard operating procedure for handling POWs and Disarmed Enemy Forces was to send a copy of the POW form to the Central Registry of War Criminals and Security Suspects (CROWCASS). However, this practice was apparently stopped as impractical, and all copies of the POW forms, roughly eight million, were destroyed.
References:
ISBN 0-81-332718-0
ISBN 0-06-019314-X
ISBN 1902806387
Aigan, I do not support any form for warcrimes, regardless of who comitted them,
I do feel it is correct to say that Germany, Italy, Hungery, Romania, Bulgaria, France, Vishy France, French Algeria, United Kingdom, Canada, Norway, Denmark, Australia, United States and Soviet Union all comitted horrible War Crimes During WW2. The Axis countrys however did it in a far grater scale. (And Terminus, since you are Danish i think you already know of the large scale War Crimes aiganst POW's Conducted by Denmark after WW2.
Pont here is They all conducted war crimes, and my sentens above were I say thay all are equal is not favoring anyone,
I only say thay are all criminal nations in one way or another. - Some conducted horrible warcrimes, and other sanktioned when (ie. Roosenveldt when sending millions of POW's to Soviet to become Forced Labour in definete. -
They were all criminals, I dont understand what the taboo is all about.
I Quote
“It is amusing to recall that we fought the revolution in defense of the rights of man and the civil war to abolish slavery and have now gone back on both principles" - General George S. Patton
I just happen to have all this wonderful literature right here at hand..........
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RE: Q1W1 SUBMARINE KILLER - 
RE: Q1W1 SUBMARINE KILLER - 
Now I don't drink anymore...
We're waaaay off topic, even for this place...
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