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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Book Idea Help Page: [1]
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Book Idea Help - 12/18/2008 5:33:13 PM   
niceguy2005


Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline 		Greetings all,

My father has requested a history book as a gift. I thought I might find a book we are both interested in so that we can both read it and discuss. I am hoping forum members might have a recommendation.

My idea is that I would like to get him a book on World War II history that is both insightful and NOT one that takes an overly controversial point of view. In other words, I would not be looking for a book that is radical in its interpretation of events, but one that may have new insights. He was once quite knowlegeable on the subject, but I don't believe he has read much on the subject in the last 30 or so years, so I was thinking that there might be some new information out there. I am more interested in the pacific theater, but if there is a book on the war in Europe, the war on the eastern front of in the Med, that would be ok as well. I would prefer to steer clear of books that talk to specifically about weapons and tactics and would lean more toward those that talk about the political and strategic sides of the war.

Any recommendations would be much appreciated.

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RE: Book Idea Help - 12/18/2008 5:35:55 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		Is what you are looking for along the lines of:

"Just the facts sir."?


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RE: Book Idea Help - 12/18/2008 5:42:42 PM   
niceguy2005


Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Is what you are looking for along the lines of:

"Just the facts sir."?


quote:

"Just the facts sir."?

I'm not sure Shark7. Is that the title of a book? Rather, are you suggesting just a factual recount?

I'm looking for something that isn't overly "technical", but rather may talk about new accounts or new information learned in the last 30+ years. Not sure if that makes sense to everyone.

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RE: Book Idea Help - 12/18/2008 5:45:17 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		Yes, I'm wondering if you are wanting a book that covers just the facts or would you like something with a bit of theory?

Apparantly my bad Joe Friday impression was just that...bad.

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RE: Book Idea Help - 12/18/2008 5:55:05 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		For the Pacific War, I would recommend The Eagle and the Rising Sun, by Alan Schom.  It is a general history of the buildup to the war and the war through the end of the Guadalcanal campaign. He is, perhaps, a little more critical of the Japanese politics than is currently popular but I found it to be a good read. 

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RE: Book Idea Help - 12/18/2008 6:49:19 PM   
niceguy2005


Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Yes, I'm wondering if you are wanting a book that covers just the facts or would you like something with a bit of theory?

Apparantly my bad Joe Friday impression was just that...bad.

Without the accent it's a little hard to pick it out.

Theory is just fine, I'm just not looking for alternate reality, radical kinds of theory...which is partly why I came to this group.

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RE: Book Idea Help - 12/18/2008 6:50:32 PM   
niceguy2005


Posts: 12523
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From: Super secret hidden base
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

For the Pacific War, I would recommend The Eagle and the Rising Sun, by Alan Schom.  It is a general history of the buildup to the war and the war through the end of the Guadalcanal campaign. He is, perhaps, a little more critical of the Japanese politics than is currently popular but I found it to be a good read. 

Thanks Bradofordkay. This sounds like its along the lines of what I was thinking, and I will definitely check into it.

Any other ideas?

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RE: Book Idea Help - 12/18/2008 6:51:10 PM   
YankeeAirRat


Posts: 633
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		I just got a great book titled "A Dawn Like Thunder: The True Story of Torpedo Squadron Eight" by Robert J. Mzarek in it he talks about Torpedo Eight from stand up to the Battle of Santa Cruz. He follows a few players like Waldron, Gay, Harold Larsen, Bill Evans, and a couple of the gunners from just before Midway up to what happen to the suvivors after war. I have just finished it after getting it as a late b-day/early christmas gift. I learned a few more intresting things about how air ops were done on the Hornet during the battle. For example Waldron went multiply times to plead with Mitscher to have the F4F's fly with the TBD's and let the SBD's on thier own. Instead Mitscher said no. Also initially it was Waldron and Torpedo eight that made the turn and slowly the rest of the Hornet strike group made the turn either to home or to follow up with Torpedo eight. Meanwhile CAG kept flying where Hornet said the Japanese were supposed to be. A good book and a great addition to a WiTP player's book case

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RE: Book Idea Help - 12/18/2008 7:58:58 PM   
thegreatwent


Posts: 3011
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline 		I can recommend "Fire In the Sky" by Bergerud, its about the air war in the South Pacific. Another good book is "The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors" by Hornfishcer it records the Battle of Samar where some DEs, DDs, and CVEs took on ADM Kurita's Battleship task force during the Battle of Leyte Gulf. The bravery of the crews and writing is gripping and the book is a bestseller.

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RE: Book Idea Help - 12/18/2008 8:16:40 PM   
ChickenOfTheSea


Posts: 579
Joined: 6/7/2008
From: Virginia
Status: offline 		One of my favorites is "A War to Be Won: Fighting the Second World War" by Millett and Murray. I found it to contain quite insightful critical evaluations of operations without any controversial historical revisions. It covers Europe in more detail than the Pacific, but really captures the full depth of the war and the strategic interdependence of various operations.

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RE: Book Idea Help - 12/18/2008 10:43:04 PM   
itsjustme

 

Posts: 171
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline 		I would highly recommend Shatter Sword, the Untold Story of the Battle of Midway.  Great read.   If you are willing to move on to the Eastern Front, I'd highly suggest Stalingrad by Anthony Beevor.  Also a great read.  For the European Theater, I would suggest An Army at Dawn and The Day of Battle, the first two parts of a planned three part series.  Both are excellent and I think meet your other requirements.

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RE: Book Idea Help - 12/18/2008 11:36:42 PM   
thegreatwent


Posts: 3011
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline
quote:

I would highly recommend Shatter Sword, the Untold Story of the Battle of Midway. Great read. If you are willing to move on to the Eastern Front, I'd highly suggest Stalingrad by Anthony Beevor. Also a great read. For the European Theater, I would suggest An Army at Dawn and The Day of Battle, the first two parts of a planned three part series. Both are excellent and I think meet your other requirements.


Those are all good, my only caveat would be that Shattered Sword is a little controversial. It is well researched and I enjoy it but some have taken issue with it, the writer also keeps repeating the mantra that he has it right and everyone else got it wrong. This can begin to grate a bit but I confess the book is well researched and finally challenges the cult of Yamamoto.

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RE: Book Idea Help - 12/19/2008 1:39:42 AM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
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From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline
quote:

quote:

I would highly recommend Shatter Sword, the Untold Story of the Battle of Midway. Great read. If you are willing to move on to the Eastern Front, I'd highly suggest Stalingrad by Anthony Beevor. Also a great read. For the European Theater, I would suggest An Army at Dawn and The Day of Battle, the first two parts of a planned three part series. Both are excellent and I think meet your other requirements.



Those are all good, my only caveat would be that Shattered Sword is a little controversial. It is well researched and I enjoy it but some have taken issue with it, the writer also keeps repeating the mantra that he has it right and everyone else got it wrong. This can begin to grate a bit but I confess the book is well researched and finally challenges the cult of Yamamoto.



I find the detailed discussion of the shipboard/airwing/fleet organization of the Japanese KB and the minute by minute integration of the events on board the Japanese carriers with the various American attacks to be much more believable than any account I have read previously. Perhaps the authors make the assertion that they are right more than some find pleasing but they also have access to documents and other writings in Japanese which thoroughly debunked the what has passed in the West for the authoritative account (by Fuchida). Their only "controversial" thesis seems to be that putting 175 odd strike (not including fighters)aircraft into the air to attack the KB before the Japanese had launched even one in return was enough of an advantage to nearly assure victory for the Americans (and that the destruction of the Japanese carriers was not, as Fuchida asserted 50 years ago, an absolute fluke that resulted from incredible American luck). Instead, through their well documented recounting one sees the Japanese position steadily deteriorate, American mistakes and lack of coordination not withstanding, until the final climax where the Enterprise dive bombers and Yorktown's combined arms strike package finally wreak the havoc that Japanese pilot skill and JAPANESE LUCK (certainly more than any command skill) had so far avoided.

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RE: Book Idea Help - 12/19/2008 2:27:49 AM   
thegreatwent


Posts: 3011
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline 		I agree Spence, I was just sharing that the book was not free of criticism and that the writing was at times repetitive. As I said I like the book just that it may not fill Niceguys stated goals.

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RE: Book Idea Help - 12/19/2008 2:54:10 AM   
jeffs


Posts: 644
Joined: 2/19/2004
From: Tokyo
Status: offline 		Agreed that Stalingrad is a great read...

It makes a good counterpart to Guadalcanal by Frank....

Both intense battles that went on for a long time.....
As bad as it was to be a starving IJA soldier on Guadalcanal....Freezing and starving
to death in Stalingrad seems much, much worse.



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To quote from Evans/Peattie`s {Kaigun}
"Mistakes in operations and tactics can be corrected, but
political and strategic mistakes live forever". The authors were refering to Japan but the same could be said of the US misadventure in Iraq

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RE: Book Idea Help - 12/19/2008 7:54:41 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thegreatwent

I can recommend "Fire In the Sky" by Bergerud, its about the air war in the South Pacific. Another good book is "The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors" by Hornfishcer it records the Battle of Samar where some DEs, DDs, and CVEs took on ADM Kurita's Battleship task force during the Battle of Leyte Gulf. The bravery of the crews and writing is gripping and the book is a bestseller.


I think Bergerud is WAY too long and (dare I say) boring. Considering what has been said earlier, I would recommend The First Team or Frank's Guadalcanal as a good read

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Post #: 16
RE: Book Idea Help - 12/19/2008 2:37:25 PM   
AirGriff


Posts: 701
Joined: 10/11/2004
Status: offline 		I'm a big fan of The Pacific War 1941-1945 by John Costello. It's well written and readable. It also has a fascinating chapter on newly revealed (in 1980) documents shedding light on just what Roosevelt and Churchill knew just before Pearl Harbor.

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Post #: 17
RE: Book Idea Help - 12/19/2008 5:37:20 PM   
Grotius


Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline 		I read Costello cover-to-cover and enjoyed it as well; it's well-written, and it's a great overview. It is, however, not the most scholarly work. I wouldn't regard it as authoritative on every point.

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RE: Book Idea Help - 12/19/2008 6:07:27 PM   
Panther Bait


Posts: 654
Joined: 8/30/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I think Bergerud is WAY too long and (dare I say) boring. Considering what has been said earlier, I would recommend The First Team or Frank's Guadalcanal as a good read


I am about 1/2 way through Fire in the Sky, and I partially agree. I thought the initial section on airplane development was very interesting. The section on the the airmen was waaay too long and repetitive. I am hoping the next section on tactics and the air encounters is more like the first section.

Mike


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RE: Book Idea Help - 12/19/2008 6:56:27 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

Greetings all,

My father has requested a history book as a gift. I thought I might find a book we are both interested in so that we can both read it and discuss. I am hoping forum members might have a recommendation.

My idea is that I would like to get him a book on World War II history that is both insightful and NOT one that takes an overly controversial point of view. In other words, I would not be looking for a book that is radical in its interpretation of events, but one that may have new insights. He was once quite knowlegeable on the subject, but I don't believe he has read much on the subject in the last 30 or so years, so I was thinking that there might be some new information out there. I am more interested in the pacific theater, but if there is a book on the war in Europe, the war on the eastern front of in the Med, that would be ok as well. I would prefer to steer clear of books that talk to specifically about weapons and tactics and would lean more toward those that talk about the political and strategic sides of the war.

Any recommendations would be much appreciated.



Chris, I have a really nice book at home called SEMPER FI, MAC, which is the personal narrative of maybe 50 Marines who served in every Marine action in the war, from day one to past VJ day. Their memories were sharp when interviewed for the book by a fellow Marine officer, (and since the author was also a Gyrene they gave him truthful info and not varnish.)
Though I was a "doggie", I had the pleasure of working with Gyrenes on several occasions and without question, they are the finest assault troops the world has ever seen.
This book does the Marine Corps proud.

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Post #: 20
RE: Book Idea Help - 12/19/2008 9:31:43 PM   
niceguy2005


Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline 		Thanks all for the recommendations. It sounds like a lot of great reading.

m10bob - Semper Fi, Mac sounds like a very compelling book. This is a strong possibility.

Airgriff - The Pacific War 1941-1945 by John Costello sound like something I would enjoy a lot and I just might have to order it for myself...It may cover information my father is already well familiar with.

I'm not sure who recommended Guadalcanal, but this was one of my dad's favorite stories and if Frank's book contains newish information it might be of interest to him.

I know Shattered Sword is quite popular on this forum. I think it might be a bit too detailed for this purpose. Same with Fire in the Sky.

Lot's of other great suggestions I will have to comb through.

Thanks all.

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RE: Book Idea Help - 12/19/2008 11:01:22 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Depends what you like.

I like some niche stuff so not sure if you can get it but its a good read

I really enjoyed the Official history of the RCN - No Higher Purpose I think it was called it was a good read and I learned a lot about how an alliance looks from one of the nations I don't often look at - the growth the Canandians undertook in the war - amazing is the only word - a good read if a bit pricey

I like the old Liddel Hart books History of the Second World Was is a good read and not to controversial.

First Victory - covers Syria/Lebanon/ Iraqui uprising etc was also a good good read again about a theatre not often covered.

Or any of the books mentioned above are good

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Post #: 22
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