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RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/22/2008 1:39:19 PM

Dutch_slith

Posts: 330
Joined: 7/21/2005
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline

Noord-Sumatra Territorial Command COL G.F.V. Gosenson

Korps Marechaussee MAJ W.F. Palmer van den Broek
60 squads

Sabang Detachment MAJ W.F. Palmer van den Broek
10 Vickers MMGs
2 7,5cm Lang 35 CD guns
2 squads (regulars) ex-4th Garrison Bn
8 squads (regulars) ex-2nd Garrison Bn
1 Coy (regulars) from 2nd Garrison Bn
20 men Militia/Landstorm
Stadswacht

2nd Garrison Bn LTC C.J. Bekkers
Kotaradja:
1 Companies (regulars) with 10 squads
140 men Militie/Landstorm
Lho'Nga:
1 Coy (regulars) with 9 squads

Detachments 1st Garrison Bn
Lokop 4 squads (regulars)
Lho Semawe 4 squads (regulars)

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Harald Velemans -- 12/22/2008 1:45:49 PM >

(in reply to Dutch_slith)

Post #: 961

RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/22/2008 1:40:05 PM

Dutch_slith

Posts: 330
Joined: 7/21/2005
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline

Sabang Detachment

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Harald Velemans -- 12/22/2008 1:43:52 PM >

(in reply to Dutch_slith)

Post #: 962

RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/22/2008 1:45:29 PM

Dutch_slith

Posts: 330
Joined: 7/21/2005
From: the Netherlands
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2nd Garrison Bn

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Post #: 963

RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/22/2008 2:18:22 PM

Dutch_slith

Posts: 330
Joined: 7/21/2005
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline

next stop.... Java

(in reply to Dutch_slith)

Post #: 964

RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/22/2008 3:09:38 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Wonder why there is an apparent relation between the demands of certain posters, and their unwillingness/inability to provide any info on their personal profile page?

Some folks contribute a lot to the forums and we get familiar with them, while others seem to be sharpshooters from the "gitgo".

Honest observation.

Another observation is that their date of registration to the forum often coincides with the demise/public "calling out" of past trolls.

Good observation, Bob.

Remember, Folks:

Attachment (1)

(in reply to m10bob)

Post #: 965

RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/22/2008 5:44:35 PM

Barb

Posts: 2503
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline

I have done some really basic research on IJA Order of battle for starting phase of hostilities and bigger formations. You can see various Divisions have various strenghts (33rd and 55th Div in Burma had only 2 Regiments available, 213IR of 33rd Div was delivered lately - 5th Division was a square one), Brigade Strenght varies from 1IR to 2,66IR strenght(+attachments):

15th Army (Burma)
33rd Div
33rd IG (214+215 IR)
213 IR - in japan to march 1942 because of lack of shipping
33 MAR
11 ATGCo
33 ER

55th Div
112IR
143IR
55CavR
55 MAR
55 ER
(144th IR = South Seas Detachement)

Reinforcements:
18th Div (april 1942 - from malaya)
53 IR
56IR
114IR
1TR
12CavR
18MGR
12ER

56th Div (march 1942 - from Japan)
113IR
146IR
148IR
14TR
56recon
56ER

21MHA
26ER
51AA

25th Army (Malaya)
5th Div
9 IB (11IR+41IR)
21IB (21IR+42IR)
5MAR
5CavR
5ER
18th Div
55IR
56IR
114IR
18MAR
22CavBn
12ER

Imperial guards Div
3GIR
4GIR
5GIR

23rd Army (Hong Kong)
38th Div
228IR - 30 Jan Ambon, 20 Feb Timor
229IR - 14.feb 1942 - Palembang
230IR - 01.Mar 1942 - West Java

14th Army (philipines)
16th Div
9IR - Lamon
20IR - Lamon
33IR - Legaspi
22FAR
16ConstrBn
48th Div (till 01.Febr - DEI)
1IR - Lingayen
47IR - lingayen
2IR - Appari, Vigan
1MAR
1ER
Sakaguchi Det (124IR of 56th Div - Davao)
65th Bde - Lamon
122IR (parts)
141IR
142IR
4th Division (march 1942)
8IR
37IR
61IR
4FAR
4CavR
4ER
4TR
7TR
1st, 8th Heavy Artillery Regts.
9th Ind. Heavy Artillery Bn.
40th, 45th, 47th, 48th Field A. A. A. Bns.
15th Ind. Mortar Bn. 3d, 21st Ind. Engr. Regts.

16th Army: (DEI)
2nd Division (reserve - DEI - Guadalcanal - Burma)
4IR
29IR
16IR
2FAR
2ER
48th Division (From Philipines on 1.feb1942)
1IR
47IR
2IR
1MAR
1ER
38th Division
228IR- 30 Jan Ambon, 20 Feb Timor
229IR - 14.feb 1942 - Palembang
230IR - 01.Mar 1942 - West Java
Sakaguchi Det (146IR of 56th Div)
35th infantry Brigade (124th IR of 18th Div) aka Kawaguchi Detachment - Miri 13.12 - kuching 23.dec - brunei - jesselton - Cebu 10.04. - Mindanao - guadalcanal

Total: ( 38R+2PIR+7SNLF)
Divisions:
2(3R) - Japan - Java 1,3
4(3R) - China - Philipines march 1942
5(4R) - Malay
16(3R) - Philipines
18(3R) - malaya - Burma april 1942
33(2R) - Burma, (1R) Japan - Burma
38(3R) - Hongkong - palembang-Java-AmbonTimor
48(3R) - Philipines- Java
55(2R) - Burma
56(3R) - Burma march 1942
IG(3R) - Malaya

Brigades + detachements:
35B(1R+) - miri- kuching - brunei- jesselton-cebu-mindanao
65B(2R+2Bn+) - Philipines
Sakaguchi(1R+) - Davao-Tarakan-Balikpapan-Bandjermasin-Java
SouthSeas(1R+)-Guam-Rabaul-Lae-Port Moresby

My questons:
1. Will be square and triangular divisions reflected in AE?
2. Will 33rd and 55th start at 2/3 strenghts?
3. Will it be possible to rebuilt 55th Division to 3/3 strenght with SouthSeas Detachment if player wants it?
4. Will it be possible to rebuild 18th Division to 4/4 strenght with 35th Brigade(Kawaguchi Detachment)?
5. The same with 56th Division with Sakaguchi Det (146IR of 56th Div)?
6. How will 65th Brigade be modeled?
7. Will the Japanese player be limited with proper troop transports from the start of the game?
8. Will be various brigades strength modeled (In WITP all brigades had 2/3 of Division strenght and all regiments were at 1/3 of Division strenght)?
9. How accurately will be Independent and Mixed units (Regiments, Brigades) modeled?
10. Will this be modeled: the 14th Army restructured its Independent Infantry Brigades and reserves to form the new IJA 100th Division, IJA 102nd Division, IJA 103rd Division, and IJA 105th Divisions?

Basic abbreviations:
IR = infantry regiment
MAR = Mountain Artillery regiment
ER = Engineer regiment
TR = Tank Regiment
CavR = Cavalry Regiment
MGR = Mountain Gun regiment
GIR = Guard Infantry regiment
FAR = Field artillery regiment
1R = one regiment

< Message edited by Barb -- 12/22/2008 5:47:15 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 966

RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/22/2008 6:06:38 PM

Kereguelen

Posts: 1829
Joined: 5/13/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb
My questons:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb
1. Will be square and triangular divisions reflected in AE

All of the original square divisions were triangularized eventually. Their surplus (fourth) regiments start the game as 'part' of divisions that were formed later and can combine into those divisions when missing component of those divisions arrive in the game.

But there are lots of C-Type (garrison) divisions in the AE that can be formed from Independent Mixed Brigades (mostly, sometimes from other assets).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb
2. Will 33rd and 55th start at 2/3 strenghts?

Yes and no, 55th starts divided into its parts. 33rd is fullstrength but not in Indochina at start.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb
3. Will it be possible to rebuilt 55th Division to 3/3 strenght with SouthSeas Detachment if player wants it?

Yes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb
4. Will it be possible to rebuild 18th Division to 4/4 strenght with 35th Brigade(Kawaguchi Detachment)?

No, the fourth regiments will become part of a new division (have forgotten which; as it was done historically).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb
5. The same with 56th Division with Sakaguchi Det (146IR of 56th Div)?

146 IR starts detached, you can rebuild the division.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb
6. How will 65th Brigade be modeled?

I don't understand this question.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb
7. Will the Japanese player be limited with proper troop transports from the start of the game?

Yes, within the limits of game-engine first turn loads.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb
8. Will be various brigades strength modeled (In WITP all brigades had 2/3 of Division strenght and all regiments were at 1/3 of Division strenght)?

Most Japanese divisions and brigades have their own, individual TOE's.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb
9. How accurately will be Independent and Mixed units (Regiments, Brigades) modeled?

As accurately as available sources allowed us to do

quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb
10. Will this be modeled: the 14th Army restructured its Independent Infantry Brigades and reserves to form the new IJA 100th Division, IJA 102nd Division, IJA 103rd Division, and IJA 105th Divisions?

Yes

(in reply to Barb)

Post #: 967

RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/22/2008 6:10:46 PM

Barb

Posts: 2503
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline

Thanks Kereguelen for your answers.
The one about 65th Brigade - consisted of this units (+attachements):
122IR (-1bn)
141IR
142IR

What strength it will have? Will it be One unit? Or will it be represented as those separate regiments able to combine to 65th Brigade? Or will they be separate regiments able to combine to new arriving units?

PS: where will the 33rd division be at the start?

< Message edited by Barb -- 12/22/2008 6:11:28 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to Kereguelen)

Post #: 968

RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/22/2008 6:18:47 PM

Kereguelen

Posts: 1829
Joined: 5/13/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb

Thanks Kereguelen for your answers.
The one about 65th Brigade - consisted of this units (+attachements):
122IR (-1bn)
141IR
142IR

What strength it will have? Will it be One unit? Or will it be represented as those separate regiments able to combine to 65th Brigade? Or will they be separate regiments able to combine to new arriving units?

PS: where will the 33rd division be at the start?

65th Brigade is represented as one unit (which is only the second-best solution because of its later history; but it was neccessary to represent it this way for game reasons).

33rd Division should be somewhere in Northern China (don't have the AE in front of me currently and cannot check this now, only from memory).

(in reply to Barb)

Post #: 969

RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/22/2008 7:04:00 PM

Dutch_slith

Posts: 330
Joined: 7/21/2005
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline

East Java: 3rd Division MGEN G.A. Ilgen

as of feb 28, 1942

also at Soerabaja: Commandement Marine (naval HQ), MLD (air HQ)
staff 2nd Artillery Rgt COL A.M. van Dijk

Mobile Forces at Soerabaja
6th KNIL Inf Rgt COL R.T. Overakker, since 420207 COL W. Kuilenburg
1st Field Artillery Bn MAJ M.F. Stenger
3rd Cavalry Squadron CPT C.W. de Iongh at Toeban/Tongas
Kort Verband Coy at Bangil
3rd Landstorm Bn LTC K. Drost
Marinebataljon LTC W.A.J. Roelofsen
Bataljon Roodenburg** LTC W.P. Roodenburg

Static
Soerabaja:
2nd Landstorm Bn MAJ L.C. van Berg
Stadswacht Soerabaja
Artilleriecommando COL P.H.T. van der Steen
2nd Pioneer Coy CPT T. van Strien

Madoera:
Madoera Detachment LTC N. Gitz
1st Barisan Bn at Bangkalan
4th Barisan Bn at Modoeng
1 platoon 3rd Barisan Bn at Tompeng
2nd and 3rd Barisan Bn at Kebanjar
12 7,5cm Lang 30 Field guns at Kebanjar
2 platoons 2nd Landstorm Bn at Piring
2 companies Legioen Mangkoe Negoro at Kamal**

Kediri:
Lanstorm and Stadswacht

Malang:
Kort Verband Coy CPT J. de Mos**
Stadswacht

Popoh:
1 platoon Landstorm Kediri

Maospati (Madioen) 1LT W.A.H. de Wit, Singosari (Malang), Perak (Soerabaja):
6th Cavalry Squadron

Korps Prajoda on Bali LTC W.P. Roodenburg
3 companies Korps Prajoda
the 4th coy became a MG coy (7 Vickers MMGs)
a 5th coy was formed, but still untrained
2 Overvalwagen
2 twin Vickers AAMG
2 10,5cm Lang 35 CD guns were still under construction (and are left out)

** formed Bataljon Roodenburg on 420301

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Harald Velemans -- 12/29/2008 6:27:36 PM >

(in reply to Kereguelen)

Post #: 970

RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/22/2008 7:10:36 PM

Dutch_slith

Posts: 330
Joined: 7/21/2005
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline

MLD Air HQ

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Dutch_slith)

Post #: 971

RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/22/2008 7:11:25 PM

Dutch_slith

Posts: 330
Joined: 7/21/2005
From: the Netherlands
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6th Inf Rgt (KV coy from Bangil attached)

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Dutch_slith)

Post #: 972

RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/22/2008 7:13:14 PM

Dutch_slith

Posts: 330
Joined: 7/21/2005
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline

1st Field Arty Bn

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Dutch_slith)

Post #: 973

RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/22/2008 7:13:52 PM

Dutch_slith

Posts: 330
Joined: 7/21/2005
From: the Netherlands
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3rd Cav Squadron

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Post #: 974

RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/22/2008 7:15:14 PM

Dutch_slith

Posts: 330
Joined: 7/21/2005
From: the Netherlands
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3rd Landstorm Bn (only two companies)

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 975

RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/22/2008 7:15:36 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

K I think it starts in Japan now I had to move it the AI was trying to march it through China to get it to Burma and I got sick of it - it was the only unit it was doing it to so it was just easier to move it to an interior base on the HI...

The trials and tribulations of an AI

Sorry

(in reply to Dutch_slith)

Post #: 976

RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/22/2008 7:17:26 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

Aye it starts at Nagasaki now - lets talk off line I think we fixed the AI issue so it can go back to where you had it !!!

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 977

RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/22/2008 7:18:19 PM

Dutch_slith

Posts: 330
Joined: 7/21/2005
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline

Marinebataljon

delay: 420301

was formed from 2 marine companies (each 75 men strong) and 2 companies MBA (naval militia), each 125 men strong.
the remaining MBA coy defended naval installations and is attached to the Artilleriecommando Soerabaja

Full TO/E are 24 Marine squads and 24 MBA squads

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 978

RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/22/2008 7:19:23 PM

Dutch_slith

Posts: 330
Joined: 7/21/2005
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline

Bataljon Roodenburg

delay 420301

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 979

RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/22/2008 7:20:34 PM

Dutch_slith

Posts: 330
Joined: 7/21/2005
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline

2nd Landstorm Bn (only two companies)

2 platoons are detached to Madoera

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 980

RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/22/2008 7:21:24 PM

Dutch_slith

Posts: 330
Joined: 7/21/2005
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline

Artilleriecommando Soerabaja

attached 1 MBA company

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Dutch_slith)

Post #: 981

RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/22/2008 7:22:07 PM

Dutch_slith

Posts: 330
Joined: 7/21/2005
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline

2nd Pioneer Company

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Dutch_slith)

Post #: 982

RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/22/2008 7:23:41 PM

Dutch_slith

Posts: 330
Joined: 7/21/2005
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline

6th Cavalry Squadron

broken up in 3 platoons to protect the airfields Maospati/Singosari/Perak

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Dutch_slith)

Post #: 983

RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/22/2008 7:24:31 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

You class the Pioneer Coys as combat engineers ?

9 squads is kind of low I would just add 1 - 4 into the Regt TOE otherwise to many ants floating around.

(as a principal - which we dont always follow we trry to avoid tiny units - a few are neccessary but I trey not to have Coy sized formations floating around they are to easy to abuse.)

Ltd risk in Java but those will almost inevitably end up attached to one of the 4 Regts on Java

(in reply to Dutch_slith)

Post #: 984

RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/22/2008 7:24:43 PM

Dutch_slith

Posts: 330
Joined: 7/21/2005
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline

Madoera Detachment

without the 2 companies Legioen Mangkoe Negoro

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 985

RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/22/2008 7:25:25 PM

Dutch_slith

Posts: 330
Joined: 7/21/2005
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline

Korps Prajoda

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 986

RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/22/2008 7:25:36 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

p.s. what is a Korps Marcheausse ?

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 987

RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/22/2008 7:29:12 PM

bradfordkay

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline

Von S... there is a crew of dedicated volunteers working hard on the AE expansion to WITP. They could have released it several months ago, but decided to work on creating a more viable AI so that everyone and not just the PBEM crowd would have a chance to enjoy the expansion.

It is going to be released. When is a good question, but it isn't going to be answered until the thing goes gold.

Whining about this and badgering the volunteers isn't going to make it arrive any sooner, so it is best to just go with the flow and buy it when it is finally released...

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to m10bob)

Post #: 988

RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/22/2008 7:35:51 PM

Dutch_slith

Posts: 330
Joined: 7/21/2005
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

You class the Pioneer Coys as combat engineers ?

9 squads is kind of low I would just add 1 - 4 into the Regt TOE otherwise to many ants floating around.

(as a principal - which we dont always follow we trry to avoid tiny units - a few are neccessary but I trey not to have Coy sized formations floating around they are to easy to abuse.)

Ltd risk in Java but those will almost inevitably end up attached to one of the 4 Regts on Java

Actually there were 3 Engineer/Pioneer Bn on Java. All had 1 coy of Pioneers (combat engineers) and two companies of normal engineers. But only the combat engineers are mentioned, maybe the others were deployed elsewhere ...
Information on them is just ... scarce!

If I had to attach them, I would have chosen the Artilleriecommando. Ever using them in a defensive role (blowing up installations) is KNIL GRAND Strategy....

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 989

RE: Admirals Edition Land Thread - 12/22/2008 7:45:08 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

OK I will have a look I need to translate on the fly as we have a load of new bases on Java and Sumatra so I am redeploying as I write down.

p.s. I assume you are ok with me using your research - I need to modiify it to fit within parameters accross nations but I am adapting your stuff to be the new Dutch baseline.

I am slavishly rewriting whole sections of the Dutch OOB based on your data - it wont be an exact match but its a lot better than we had before !!!

(in reply to Dutch_slith)

Post #: 990