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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [American Civil War] >> Forge of Freedom: The American Civil War 1861-1865 >> awesome

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awesome - 12/29/2008 10:32:10 AM

lawbreaker

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the wife and i have been playing this game for weeks now. we never expected it to be this cool. she usually plays the south and i play the north. we have a tendency to completely ignore the eastern theater, being from indiana and all. the detailed battles are awesome, and it's cool how you can see the perks you buy on the brigades. this is definitely our favorite game right now, and will be for a long time more than likely. thanks for making it, and we hope it sells enough to justify expansions and sequels and all that. we do have one mild complaint though, we just read in one of the threads that you are considering making an expansion with just the eastern theater. what the? it wouldn't be very fun to play as the north, what with the new yorkers constantly running off the field an all. please keep it so we can still play the western theater, you know, where the war was actually won. because lets be honest, if the eastern army was ever hit with the fury of an assault like albert sidney johnston's at shiloh that early in the war, they would have ran all the way to canada.

so please don't leave us out, like the new york publishing houses have done for the last hundred years. and anybody who is still on the fence about this game, buy it, it is definitely the coolest civil war game on the market. period.

Post #: 1

RE: awesome - 12/29/2008 4:44:44 PM

Gil R.

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quote:

because lets be honest, if the eastern army was ever hit with the fury of an assault like albert sidney johnston's at shiloh that early in the war, they would have ran all the way to canada.

As a (displaced) New Yorker I think you're wrong: what would have happened is that as the men ran off the battlefield they would have kept running, until they encountered George McClellan miles away from the battle and largely oblivious to it, and the sight of their beloved general would have rallied them, leading them to turn around and charge back into the battle and trounce the by-then exhausted Confederate pursuit columns. And McClellan would have let the world know how he single-handedly won the battle against staggering odds. Sounds about right? (I've been doing a lot of reading about the Peninsula Campaign, in case you can't tell. And no, don't be paranoid: this isn't research for the eastern-theater-only game that has been considered.)

Thanks for your comments -- definitely good to see.

< Message edited by Gil R. -- 12/29/2008 4:45:43 PM >

(in reply to lawbreaker)

Post #: 2

RE: awesome - 12/29/2008 11:50:23 PM

lawbreaker

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this is the same mclellan who was replaced twice by lincoln for being at best overly cautious, and at worse treacherous, right? despite the fact that most civil war histories have been written by new yorkers, you can still gain truth by reading between the lines. why did mclellan leave the road to washington open? why did he overestimate lee's numbers so highly? surely he knew that lee didn't have 200,000 men right? why when porter was attacked did he not put in his whole army? why when the indiana boys found the whole southern attack plans before antietam did he not use it to destroy lee piece meal? why did he not attack with his whole army at the same time at antietam, when to have done so would have surely been the end of lee's army? why when he was replaced the first time, did his allies, namely porter, move so slow to help pope at the second bull run? new yorkers hated abraham lincoln. remember the draft riots? with all do respect for your opinion, if it wasn't for us midwesterners winning the war, the new englanders would still be intrenched at petersburg still today.

(in reply to Gil R.)

Post #: 3

RE: awesome - 12/30/2008 2:29:04 AM

Jonah

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Joined: 12/15/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lawbreaker

the wife and i have been playing this game for weeks now. we never expected it to be this cool. she usually plays the south and i play the north. we have a tendency to completely ignore the eastern theater, being from indiana and all. the detailed battles are awesome, and it's cool how you can see the perks you buy on the brigades. this is definitely our favorite game right now, and will be for a long time more than likely. thanks for making it, and we hope it sells enough to justify expansions and sequels and all that. we do have one mild complaint though, we just read in one of the threads that you are considering making an expansion with just the eastern theater. what the? it wouldn't be very fun to play as the north, what with the new yorkers constantly running off the field an all. please keep it so we can still play the western theater, you know, where the war was actually won. because lets be honest, if the eastern army was ever hit with the fury of an assault like albert sidney johnston's at shiloh that early in the war, they would have ran all the way to canada. so please don't leave us out, like the new york publishing houses have done for the last hundred years. and anybody who is still on the fence about this game, buy it, it is definitely the coolest civil war game on the market. period.

While I agree with you that the war was won in the west, vicksburg in paticular, but you mentioned the point on sidney johnston. I would reverse that: If the army of the cumberland and army of the tennessee ever faced the Army of Northern Virginia, THEY would run. It's no coincidance that the only victory for the Army of Tennessee was when the ANV was present with Longstreet's corps.

But besides that I fully agree with you. FoF is the first game to give full justice to the west, which is needed. The vastness of Tennessee, Georgia and Mississippi are made theatres of operation, not just the 'lesser areas'.

Glad you enjoy the game, it really is the best ACW game out there.

_____________________________

�Duty is ours, Consequences are God�s.�

-Lieutenant General Thomas Jonathan Jackson

(in reply to lawbreaker)

Post #: 4

RE: awesome - 12/30/2008 6:02:30 AM

lawbreaker

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granted longstreets boys did rout the troops at chickamauga, but he was extremely fortunate to have sent his corp in exactly where rosecrans had just moved troops out. his troops entered a hole in the northern lines. when the yanks realised they had rebs in their rear they had no choice but to redeploy. still, thomas and his boys held off the rebel army by themselves for the rest of the day, earning himself his rock of chickamauga nick name. those midwesterners had rebs advancing on two sides, and still stood. even longstreet, and one of his division commanders, spoke openly how they never saw yankees stand like these yankees were. its no coincidence that longstreet soon after returned to the east. thats why when ol sam hood came west, he attempted his hard charging ways that were so succesful in the east, and failed miserably. not to take away from the fighting spirit of the rebs. us midwesterners just had the same fighting spirit. in that situation, numbers naturally prevailed. after shermans march to the sea, and northern advance thru the carolinas, they were headed straight for lee. he split. some generals recommended attacking shermans boys. who knows what would have been the outcome of those two armies colliding with sky high morale. it would have been the superbowl, thats for sure. but you are absolutely correct, this game rocks. every strategy gamer should own it. ofcourse i'm fortunate enough to have a wife who loves these kinds of games as much as i do. so i've never played single player.

(in reply to Jonah)

Post #: 5

RE: awesome - 12/30/2008 4:08:56 PM

Rexor

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From: The Oort Cloud
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lawbreaker

this is the same mclellan who was replaced twice by lincoln for being at best overly cautious, and at worse treacherous, right? despite the fact that most civil war histories have been written by new yorkers, you can still gain truth by reading between the lines. why did mclellan leave the road to washington open? why did he overestimate lee's numbers so highly? surely he knew that lee didn't have 200,000 men right? why when porter was attacked did he not put in his whole army? why when the indiana boys found the whole southern attack plans before antietam did he not use it to destroy lee piece meal? why did he not attack with his whole army at the same time at antietam, when to have done so would have surely been the end of lee's army? why when he was replaced the first time, did his allies, namely porter, move so slow to help pope at the second bull run? new yorkers hated abraham lincoln. remember the draft riots? with all do respect for your opinion, if it wasn't for us midwesterners winning the war, the new englanders would still be intrenched at petersburg still today.

What do you have against New Yorkers? Take it down a notch.

_____________________________

"Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe." (H.G. Wells)

(in reply to lawbreaker)

Post #: 6

RE: awesome - 12/31/2008 2:55:27 AM

lawbreaker

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well, read any civil war book published in new york, and find anything about the service performed by the troops of the state of indiana. oh wait you can't? hmm..., that's odd huh? so then i guess the question is, what do new yorkers have against the state of indiana? take it down a notch. i started this thread to say we loved the game. but since you asked what i have against new yorkers, i guess i have no choice but to answer. ill answer with a question. why do new yorkers feel that both presidential candidates should be new yorkers? hillary clinton and rudy giuliani. why do new yorkers want the third party candidate to be a new yorker? michael bloomberg. why does the mayor of new york city, michael bloomberg, go around the nation setting up gun shops and trying to destroy the bill of rights and the second amendment? why do new yorkers insist that every single movie made in the last decade be set inside new york city? why do new york politicians go around bragging that new york is the center of the universe? why does new york insist that they receive close to a billion dollars a year from american tax payers to protect themselves from terrorists that they provoke, and at the same time prevent americas other large cities from receiving even a fraction of that amount? why when americans sent them billions after 9-11, and the government billions more, did they complain about the citizens of new orleans buying 40 ounces of beer with american tax dollars after they lost their entire city? why do new yorkers believe that all of our so called "national news" should be in new york city? cbs, nbc, abc, fox news, cnn, and on and on. all i'm saying is that maybe new yorkers should remember that there are 49 other states in this great nation and every one of them is just as important as new york. so who should take it down a notch? to the folks of kansas, missouri, illinois, indiana, ohio, michigan, tennesee, kentucky, alabama, georgia, louisiana, mississippi, arkansas, etc. the western theater of the civil war was just as important as the east. you can't make a civil war game that leaves us out. i honestly hope that you're not offended by that. i love matrix games, and i love forge of freedom. maybe if there is going to be a region specific expansion, it could contain both a western theater and an eastern theater campaign.

(in reply to Rexor)

Post #: 7

RE: awesome - 12/31/2008 9:02:31 AM

elcidce

Posts: 198
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From: Lugoff, SC
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quote:

why does new york insist that they receive close to a billion dollars a year from american tax payers to protect themselves from terrorists that they provoke

This thread has taken a bad turn. Im sure it will be locked up. Please post or pm me the way that NY provokes terrorists? That statement is disturbing and makes me ill to think that someone thinks like that. I suppose the workers in the WTC deserved to die according to your diatribe.

_____________________________

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(in reply to lawbreaker)

Post #: 8

RE: awesome - 12/31/2008 4:08:21 PM

lawbreaker

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i'm not sure exactly what i said to get my post locked. i was asked a question and i answered it. elcidce, don't be so quick to trample on freedom of speech in this great nation just because it's an opinion you happen to disagree with.

(in reply to elcidce)

Post #: 9

RE: awesome - 12/31/2008 5:16:05 PM

Harbinger

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uhh...yeah. I agree. Simply because one does not agree with an opinion does not make the opinion invalid. I've seen way too much of this attitude on way to many forums.�If anything needs to be "taken down a notch" it's the prevailing attitude that "I'm the only one that counts."
�
~i~

(in reply to lawbreaker)

Post #: 10

RE: awesome - 12/31/2008 5:42:50 PM

Rexor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Harbinger

uhh...yeah. I agree. Simply because one does not agree with an opinion does not make the opinion invalid. I've seen way too much of this attitude on way to many forums.�If anything needs to be "taken down a notch" it's the prevailing attitude that "I'm the only one that counts."
�
~i~

Fair enough. I'm just not sure a forum about the greatness of FoF is the appropriate place for a screed against New Yorkers. That's all. I'm certainly not opposed to the expression of opinions. I just wonder why lawbreaker couldn't express his admiration for the game without venting some pent-up rage against people in another region of the country. I have posted on all manner of game forums without feeling compelled to write about folks from another state, whatever my opinions about them. Is there any need, on this website of all places, to throw unprovoked insults?

_____________________________

"Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe." (H.G. Wells)

(in reply to Harbinger)

Post #: 11

RE: awesome - 12/31/2008 6:22:30 PM

lawbreaker

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the thing about new yorkers running was a joke. lighten up. my response to what i have against new yorkers was an answer to a question you asked. don't ask a question in a thread, and then when you receive an answer say, that the thread is not the appropriate place for the answer. harbringer is absolutely correct, to many websites squash free speech and use as an excuse to do it, the line that it's not the appropriate place for it. but that road is a slippery slope. if we reject first ammendment protections for people who say things that we disagree with, then we eventually reject first ammendment protections for everybody. and if thats the case, then we should just crinkle up the bill of rights, and delegate it to the dust bin of history.

(in reply to Rexor)

Post #: 12

RE: awesome - 12/31/2008 6:49:31 PM

Rexor

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I'm not asking anyone to squash your free speech, or even to prevent you from offering your opinion. There's no need for some authority to put the kibosh on the discussion or to even get involved. The question about appropriateness was directed at you, not Matrix (or the government, for that matter, god forbid). If you have the right to post your opinion (and you do), I certainly have the right to question its relevance to the subject matter.

_____________________________

"Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe." (H.G. Wells)

(in reply to lawbreaker)

Post #: 13

RE: awesome - 12/31/2008 7:13:00 PM

elcidce

Posts: 198
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Lawbreaker,
Typical garbage response from someone who cant support his argument. I am some how suppressing your freedom of speech by disagreeing with you. Your opinion should be valid but not others?

How ironic dont you think. If I disagree then I am preventing you from having your Free Speech. In order to express this you want to call my opinion an attempt to censor your opinion. Pathetic.

If you had been around here long enough you would know that there is a dedicated area for political psycho-babble like you're writing. Post it at the steak house not in FOF forums.

Rexor I agree but he doesnt get it.

_____________________________

The Citadel
G Company
Class of 1991

(in reply to Rexor)

Post #: 14

RE: awesome - 12/31/2008 7:13:20 PM

lawbreaker

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rexor, it would appear we have reached an agreement. feel free to disagree with anything i say in the future, after all, true wisdom is recognizing that we don't know anything. we have settled our minor disagreement amicably, and all without the need of any interference from an orwellian police state. it would appear that there may be hope for our young republic after all.

(in reply to Rexor)

Post #: 15

RE: awesome - 12/31/2008 7:21:59 PM

Rexor

Posts: 295
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From: The Oort Cloud
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lawbreaker

it would appear that there may be hope for our young republic after all.

Don't bet on it.

By the way, I have no problem with your mentioning New Yorkers running--that was 140 years ago, and often true. Modern New Yorkers, it would interest you to know, are a good lot overall. I lived there for twelve rewarding years and got to know a great many of them well--and many of them were in the publishing industry.

_____________________________

"Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe." (H.G. Wells)

(in reply to lawbreaker)

Post #: 16

RE: awesome - 12/31/2008 7:45:43 PM

lawbreaker

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i stand corrected rexor. after all, the fat boys and run d.m.c. were new yorkers, and i don't care what anybody says, they were cool. and hey elcidce, you are absolutely correct, this thread has gotten slightly off topic. so lets return to the civil war. i couldn't help but notice that you're from south carolina. are you sure that some of this pent up aggression toward me isn't caused by some of those..., well you know,... accidental fires that us midwesterners might have started on shermans umm.., little visit? because if it is man, we're sorry already, cool? lets let bygones be bygones okay?

(in reply to Rexor)

Post #: 17

RE: awesome - 12/31/2008 7:50:25 PM

Harbinger

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heh heh....Awesome game. It can only get better from here with the patches and updates planned.

~i~

(in reply to lawbreaker)

Post #: 18

RE: awesome - 12/31/2008 8:01:42 PM

lawbreaker

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that it is harbringer, that it is.

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Post #: 19

RE: awesome - 12/31/2008 9:39:35 PM

Rexor

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My only issue with FoF is the naval aspect. Everything else about the game is inspired, but I need to have my gunboat-ironclad fix. That's why I started playing Gary Grigsby's War Between the States, which models naval action pretty well. In FoF, the land war seems to go on without any conflict on the rivers or along the coast. Of course, I only play the AI, which may have something to do with it. But the South seems incapable of allocating enough resources to build even one ironclad in this game.

_____________________________

"Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe." (H.G. Wells)

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Post #: 20

RE: awesome - 12/31/2008 9:43:45 PM

gunny3013

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...you are quite correct about the Naval aspect of the game, so much so it would be pointless to discuss amphibious capability.

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Post #: 21

RE: awesome - 1/1/2009 8:05:27 AM

lawbreaker

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true, we have noticed that the naval aspect is pretty non existent. hopefully they can find away to fix it. do you guys no if it is actually worth it for the north to blockade the south? i'm not exactly sure what it accomplishes.

(in reply to gunny3013)

Post #: 22

RE: awesome - 1/1/2009 11:29:12 AM

Ironclad

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Blockades are definitely worthwhile - indeed a must. Each port blockaded proportionately reduces the amount of goods available for blockade runners and resources supplied by the foreign powers. In addition the Union also gets extra VPs: +2 for 50% or more of CSA ports blockaded and another +2 when all CSA ports are blockaded. To qualify each blockading fleet for a port must have a minimium of 30 strength points (ie equal to three full strength vessels).

Happy New Year.

(in reply to lawbreaker)

Post #: 23

RE: awesome - 1/1/2009 12:36:42 PM

lawbreaker

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okay thanks for that very useful information, i will definitely apply a blockade then. so i take it three full strength vessels, can be a mixture of ships, frigates or ironclads then?

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Post #: 24

RE: awesome - 1/1/2009 2:26:45 PM

Ironclad

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The at start ships topped up by cheap frigate builds are the most cost effective combination. As ironclads are described as like ships I assume they would count too.

Another feature worth noting is that every Union ship, whether in a blockading fleet or not, has a kill possibility against a runner in the same sea province.

(in reply to lawbreaker)

Post #: 25

RE: awesome - 1/1/2009 3:15:06 PM

lawbreaker

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we definitely didnt know that about the kill possibility against the blockad runners. thanks for that. so if a blockade runner gets killed from ships being present, is it just an automatic kill without the possibility of just damaging it? and would it then not be in the beginning of the turn report?

(in reply to Ironclad)

Post #: 26

RE: awesome - 1/1/2009 5:36:32 PM

elcidce

Posts: 198
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From: Lugoff, SC
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Sherman burned Columbia SC to the ground despite it being declared an open city. Hundreds of people starved weeks after this was done. This was hardly an accidental burning. Revenge was the motive here. Too bad women and children bore the brunt of it.

I dont hold any animosity toward the Union but I am no fan of what the Federal government has become since that time. Two fellow Citadel alumni fired the first shots to begin the war in January and later at Ft. Sumter. Its important to me that we remember the stories from both sides not just the victorious side. Its amazing how little most people know of the war and its causes.

Back on topic I have just acquired a copy of FOF, so Im learning the tip and stragegies from the board. Unfortunately I also bought the Battlefront games, AGEOD Civil War and GGWBTS. I am trying to find the time to decide which I like the best and play it.

_____________________________

The Citadel
G Company
Class of 1991

(in reply to lawbreaker)

Post #: 27

RE: awesome - 1/1/2009 5:40:08 PM

terje439

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lawbreaker

�we definitely didnt know that about the kill possibility against the blockad runners. thanks for that. so if a blockade runner gets killed from ships being present, is it just an automatic kill without the possibility of just damaging it? and would it then not be in the beginning of the�turn report?

No it has a chance to damage the runner, not automatically kill it. However unless you are very unlucky, the runner should take enough damage to sink. Any ship sinks at 2 pts remaining, so if the report states something like:
"Runner #1 is attacked for 8 dmg and is reduced to 2", that actually means that it is sunk.
But you might get an unlucky die roll and just damage the runner, in which case the Confederacy is likely to return the ship to port for repairs.
And yes, such events are reported in the beginning of the turn report.

About the Confederacy building ships, they are able to (economically speaking), however the Union starts with such a large navy that it is a mere waste for the Confederacy to start any ship-building program.
What might work for the South however is if they really really want, to build three ICs and arm them with some heavy guns. In that case the Union fleet is in for a surprise!

(in reply to lawbreaker)

Post #: 28

RE: awesome - 1/1/2009 9:38:36 PM

Rexor

Posts: 295
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From: The Oort Cloud
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quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439

quote:

ORIGINAL: lawbreaker

�we definitely didnt know that about the kill possibility against the blockad runners. thanks for that. so if a blockade runner gets killed from ships being present, is it just an automatic kill without the possibility of just damaging it? and would it then not be in the beginning of the�turn report?

No it has a chance to damage the runner, not automatically kill it. However unless you are very unlucky, the runner should take enough damage to sink. Any ship sinks at 2 pts remaining, so if the report states something like:
"Runner #1 is attacked for 8 dmg and is reduced to 2", that actually means that it is sunk.
But you might get an unlucky die roll and just damage the runner, in which case the Confederacy is likely to return the ship to port for repairs.
And yes, such events are reported in the beginning of the turn report.

About the Confederacy building ships, they are able to (economically speaking), however the Union starts with such a large navy that it is a mere waste for the Confederacy to start any ship-building program.
What might work for the South however is if they really really want, to build three ICs and arm them with some heavy guns. In that case the Union fleet is in for a surprise!

That's just the problem--I can't imagine playing the South and even considering building three ironclads with serious armament in this game. The resources just aren't there, where as they were, to a certain extent, in the actual war.

_____________________________

"Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe." (H.G. Wells)

(in reply to terje439)

Post #: 29

RE: awesome - 1/1/2009 10:02:54 PM

terje439

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That, IMO, is a matter of how the war is turning out. Sure, I will never build those units in the first two years, but if the war is going well, and I've sent alot of Union troops to a Southern resort

, I might build them to kill some Union blockade ships. But, I agree there are always other things to spend those resources on, but, if you play the South well enough and do well in the war, the resources ARE there it is simply a matter of priority.

(in reply to Rexor)

Post #: 30