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Strange course - 1/12/2009 8:13:09 PM   
Xavier5733


Posts: 65
Joined: 3/28/2004
From: France
Status: offline 		Is somebody could explain to me why one of my TF follow such a strange course between PH and Midway






Does my TF try to avoid the 2 IJN subs east of Midway ?

The Tanker you can see in Midway arrived the day before... and the two subs where already spotted in the area.

(I play a game vs AI, CHS mod with AB extended map)
Post #: 1
RE: Strange course - 1/12/2009 8:16:03 PM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		enemy subs ahead!!!

The pathfinding trys to find a secure path to Midway.
Yous ee some enemy subs, maybe the pathfinding AI knows of some more threads....

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RE: Strange course - 1/13/2009 12:24:16 AM   
Mobeer


Posts: 662
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline 		I've just come across another strange course.

At first glance it looks ok.

But it is going to pick up resources at Port Arthur, refuelling at Bonin, and currently nearer to Marcus Island?






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(in reply to wernerpruckner)
Post #: 3
RE: Strange course - 1/13/2009 1:22:22 AM   
stuman


Posts: 3907
Joined: 9/14/2008
From: Elvis' Hometown
Status: offline 		Your captains must be getting paid by the mile.

(in reply to Mobeer)
Post #: 4
RE: Strange course - 1/13/2009 3:12:11 AM   
wwengr


Posts: 678
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
Status: offline 		The answer is a little more obvious when you consider what the routing algorithm does.  The algorithm considers several factors:
  1. Undesirable hexes - Shallow, Coastal
  2. Enemy threat - Close to enemy bases, enemy TF's along route
  3. Destination
  4. Home port

It will try to take the shortest route, while avoiding threats and undesirable hexes, that allows it to get to the destination and return to the home port with the current available fuel.  If the endurance of one of the ships in the TF will not make it on its current fuel, the algorithm will take the shortest route.

Woody, your route is short enough and your ships have fuel enough, even the destroyers, to make that circuitous route avoiding the threats.  If you want to run the gauntlet, either set the home port to a far away point or actively manage the destination with each move.

Mobeer, my guess is that your TF home port is at Bonin or the routing to the home port takes it near Bonin and that avoidance of Coastal hexes doesn't happen because the more ideal routing (going between Amami and Osumi to stay in deep water) results in not enough fuel...  Either that or the algorithm is simply confused!

< Message edited by wwengr -- 1/13/2009 2:04:51 PM >

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Post #: 5
RE: Strange course - 1/13/2009 10:18:07 AM   
Bogo Mil

 

Posts: 286
Joined: 1/28/2008
Status: offline 		Why are shallow and coastal hexes "undesirable"? I think subs are penalized in these hexes, thus it should be very desirable to use as many shallow hexes as possible for surface ships, shouldn't it?

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Post #: 6
RE: Strange course - 1/13/2009 11:40:19 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bogo Mil

Why are shallow and coastal hexes "undesirable"? I think subs are penalized in these hexes, thus it should be very desirable to use as many shallow hexes as possible for surface ships, shouldn't it?

Historically, ships run aground in shallow water (or hit the coast)... the game is trying to reproduce this, and thus TFs try to stay in deep water.

Of course, if the game allowed groundings (and subsequent destruction) of ships in shallow water, players might not be so anxious to route ships this way.

(in reply to Bogo Mil)
Post #: 7
RE: Strange course - 1/13/2009 12:59:33 PM   
Sayar

 

Posts: 58
Joined: 10/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mobeer

I've just come across another strange course.

At first glance it looks ok.

But it is going to pick up resources at Port Arthur, refuelling at Bonin, and currently nearer to Marcus Island?


This is because yuor TF is going first to pick up resources and only then go to bonin for refuel

(in reply to Mobeer)
Post #: 8
RE: Strange course - 1/13/2009 1:27:35 PM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bogo Mil

Why are shallow and coastal hexes "undesirable"? I think subs are penalized in these hexes, thus it should be very desirable to use as many shallow hexes as possible for surface ships, shouldn't it?


The game engine penalises coastal hexes due to the lack of depth to hide in, although in reality the clutter more than makes up for the additional vulnerability to underwater explosions. It also slows TFs down and makes it more difficult for CVTFs to launch, now due to the islands that get in the way of a course into the wind.

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(in reply to Bogo Mil)
Post #: 9
RE: Strange course - 1/13/2009 2:37:27 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		It's a bug in the game. Your TF is trying to find a safe path around subs or enemy TF.

Probably baddies in the ?-triangle, my guess is where the circle is. And where the X is.

-F-








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< Message edited by Feinder -- 1/13/2009 3:28:55 PM >

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Post #: 10
RE: Strange course - 1/13/2009 5:50:47 PM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wwengr

The answer is a little more obvious when you consider what the routing algorithm does.  The algorithm considers several factors:
  1. Undesirable hexes - Shallow, Coastal
  2. Enemy threat - Close to enemy bases, enemy TF's along route
  3. Destination
  4. Home port




Pity it soen't take into account emamy aircraft ranges, or at least if it does why doesn't it take note.

(in reply to wwengr)
Post #: 11
RE: Strange course - 1/13/2009 6:18:58 PM   
Rainer

 

Posts: 1210
Joined: 11/21/2000
From: Neuching, Bavaria, Germany
Status: offline 		I believe (but never tested) that AIR ZOC is taken into consideration with recent versions of WitP.
In my campaigns (1.806, Allied vs AI, Stock, no mods) I discovered that convoys from US West Coast to Australia/Papua-New Guinea sometimes (not always) avoid the Japanese occupied Central Pacific Islands (Marshalls etc.).
Because I developed the habit to re-route these convoys manually it came as a mild surprise to see several convoys doing this on their own.
Then again, could very well be that said convoys simply did it because of enemy subs lurking in the vicinity.

(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 12
RE: Strange course - 1/14/2009 3:22:39 AM   
wwengr


Posts: 678
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
Status: offline 		Aircraft range is taken into account.

The routing algorithm seems to have a Monte Carlo component becuase you can sometimes get a route change by changing destinations, then changing back.  It has trouble with long distances.  Probably the most reliable way to feed ships to the Japanese LBA is to take a TF in Pearl or on the West Coast and give it a destination in Oz or there about.  The TF will run right through the gauntlet.

_____________________________

I have been inputting my orders for the campaign game first turn since July 4, 2009. I'm getting close. In another month or two, I might be able to run the turn!

(in reply to Rainer)
Post #: 13
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