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RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/22/2008 10:10:07 AM   
m10bob


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Very detailed map work, especially considering the scale.
I see Route 66 (finally), and some new NATO LCU counters....

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Post #: 571
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/22/2008 11:51:37 AM   
Andrew Brown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK


AB,

Are you going to include Wooloomanata ??

It was used by the RAAF to provide 79 Sqn with some bush training before being sent north, as such it was possible to use it for training of other fighter squadrons.


I don't have the game open at the moment, but since Andrew is Australian, he put extra attention to Australia. There are more bases there than stock, quite a few in the south and more in the bush.

Bill


An Aussie I may be, but I had to look up "Wooloomanata"! And it isn't far from where I live. It is in the Geelong hex on the AE map.

Andrew

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 572
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/22/2008 12:21:54 PM   
JeffroK


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Sorry for making you work Andrew,

I'm getting sick of everyone asking for their own little additions to the map.

Wooloomanata is really a large farm on the western slopes of the You Yangs which are between Melbourne & geelong. It was owned by the Fairbain family, Minister for Air in the 40's.

Now they have links with Catriona Rowntree (one of the boys is married to her) and run sheep on the land at work to keep the grass down.

Now, back to the real world........

< Message edited by JeffK -- 12/22/2008 12:22:19 PM >


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Post #: 573
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/22/2008 3:06:33 PM   
witpqs


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Andrew,

Have you made Geelong the capital of Australia? You do deserve it!


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Post #: 574
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/22/2008 7:13:53 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Heeward

Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul and Pacific Railroad ran out of Tacoma - along the west side of Hood Canal and along the south coast of Strait of Juan de Fuca, but stopping short of Neah Bay - at Port Angles on the map? Another line ran from Tacoma to the ports of Grays Harbor - Cosmopolis/Aberdeen/Hoquim Is Bremerton and it's Naval Ship Yard included in Seattle / Tacoma? Bremerton is located in the hex due east of Seattle. It also had a war time airport - with two dozen revetments that a future road project I am involved with will be wiping out their foot prints. Shelton Airfield would be located in the same hex even though it is located on the west side of Hoods Canal. Ports of Grays Harbor county - due west of Tacoma on the map. My Father-in law in the 41st Infantry Division - 205th Field Artillery was sent there after Pearl Harbor to guard the coast. A railroad line ran from Portland to Astoria and out to Fort Stevens. I can see Vancouver Barracks and its airfields Pearson and Evergreen being absorbed into Portland even though they are located north of the Columbia River.



This is not correct. There is/was a rail line, part of the Milwaukee Road, that ran between Port Townsend and Port Angeles - but this rail line was never physically connected to the rest of the Milwaukee Road. Instead they ran barges from Seattle to Port Townsend. There was no railroad along the western shore of Hood Canal.

http://www.mrcd.org/olympic_peninsula_14th_sub.html


My guess when seeing this map was that the base to the east of Victoria was actually Port Townsend, but Oak Harbor is just as good. The coastal fortifications were in both of those locations, and the Naval Air Station was built up in the Oak Harbor area - so I can live with that.

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fair winds,
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Post #: 575
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/22/2008 9:21:49 PM   
Reg


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Andrew,

Have you made Geelong the capital of Australia? You do deserve it!




Oh don't encourage him. Geelong wins ONE grand final and you never hear the end of it....




< Message edited by Reg -- 12/22/2008 9:38:45 PM >


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Post #: 576
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/23/2008 12:32:35 AM   
Heeward


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I stand corrected - The line must have termiated at or near Bremerton, and been confused with the many private lumber company rail road lines.
Sadly the Clallam County portion of the CM&StP RR - Seattle and North Coast is no more and being turned into the Olympic Discovery Trail - your gas tax dollars at work.



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Post #: 577
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/23/2008 12:32:45 AM   
wdolson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay
This is not correct. There is/was a rail line, part of the Milwaukee Road, that ran between Port Townsend and Port Angeles - but this rail line was never physically connected to the rest of the Milwaukee Road. Instead they ran barges from Seattle to Port Townsend. There was no railroad along the western shore of Hood Canal.

http://www.mrcd.org/olympic_peninsula_14th_sub.html


My guess when seeing this map was that the base to the east of Victoria was actually Port Townsend, but Oak Harbor is just as good. The coastal fortifications were in both of those locations, and the Naval Air Station was built up in the Oak Harbor area - so I can live with that.


Technically, Oak Harbor is on the East side of the Sound, but I believe the hex also includes Port Townsend and Port Angeles.

Bill

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Post #: 578
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/23/2008 12:36:11 AM   
Andrew Brown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Reg

Oh don't encourage him. Geelong wins ONE grand final and you never hear the end of it....


No need to worry, I live in Melbourne, not Geelong.

Andrew

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Post #: 579
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/23/2008 12:39:33 AM   
Andrew Brown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay
My guess when seeing this map was that the base to the east of Victoria was actually Port Townsend, but Oak Harbor is just as good. The coastal fortifications were in both of those locations, and the Naval Air Station was built up in the Oak Harbor area - so I can live with that.


Yes, 'twas put there because of the Naval Air Station.

I can tell you, doing the North American part of the map when so many of the players are from there, and I am not, makes it tricky. This is a tough crowd!

Andrew

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Post #: 580
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/23/2008 1:11:59 AM   
rockmedic109

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown


quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay
My guess when seeing this map was that the base to the east of Victoria was actually Port Townsend, but Oak Harbor is just as good. The coastal fortifications were in both of those locations, and the Naval Air Station was built up in the Oak Harbor area - so I can live with that.


Yes, 'twas put there because of the Naval Air Station.

I can tell you, doing the North American part of the map when so many of the players are from there, and I am not, makes it tricky. This is a tough crowd!

Andrew

Nah, we're not so tough. Not as long as <insert name of favorite place here> is included!

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Post #: 581
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/23/2008 5:58:34 AM   
Grotius


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quote:

I can tell you, doing the North American part of the map when so many of the players are from there, and I am not, makes it tricky. This is a tough crowd!

You've done a better job with North America than most of us Americans could do, Andrew. And certainly better than Americans could do with Australia. I've been to Oz, but I suspect many of my countrymen can't name more than one or two Aussie cities.

At any rate, the map looks great to me.

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Post #: 582
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/23/2008 2:10:05 PM   
Yank


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Yep -The map is a work of art and will be a pleasure to look at it for hours on end, which I expect I will be soon. Thanks Andrew for all the hard work. Thanks also to the remainder of the development team. It is obvious from reading all of your posts, especially in the last few days, that this thing was a beast to develop and was clearly a labor of love for all of you.

I can't wait to get my hands on it and practice a bit against the AI, and then take on my long-time PBEM partner.

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Post #: 583
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/23/2008 7:24:38 PM   
Sardaukar


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I cannot even imagine where Andrew Brown got the drive to supply those maps... Massive amount of work, all with quality.

CHS maps and glimpses of AE maps, informative, precise and also pleasing for an eye.

I don't think AB has to buy his drinks if there is WitP gathering..

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Post #: 584
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/24/2008 3:14:51 AM   
wdolson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yank

Yep -The map is a work of art and will be a pleasure to look at it for hours on end, which I expect I will be soon. Thanks Andrew for all the hard work. Thanks also to the remainder of the development team. It is obvious from reading all of your posts, especially in the last few days, that this thing was a beast to develop and was clearly a labor of love for all of you.

I can't wait to get my hands on it and practice a bit against the AI, and then take on my long-time PBEM partner.


The map was 99% done when I joined the team, but I've been involved with the code to support the other graphics changes (colored icons for each nationality, new map icons showing moving LCUs, etc.), so I have been consulted along the way. The new graphics and map are fantastic.

Bill

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Post #: 585
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/25/2008 1:17:03 PM   
herwin

 

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The Eureka harbour is rather small, and I think the only harbour off Long Beach was at Avalon. You're missing March Field.

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Post #: 586
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/25/2008 1:24:03 PM   
herwin

 

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You're missing a big harbour at Newport Oregon. You're also missing a lot of harbours in Washington/Vancouver Island. Neah Bay is bigger than Avalon in the south.

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Post #: 587
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/25/2008 1:28:57 PM   
herwin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

Yes, I left Bremerton as part of Seattle, although technically it could be made a separate base in the hex just West of Seattle.

Long beach is in the LA hex. The base to the "East" (map-wise) of LA is Santa Ana.

The base to the "East" of Victoria is Oak Harbor.

Even though there are more bases in AE, there are still fewer on the US West coast than compared to other parts of the map. If placed here using the same criteria, there would be bases all over the US West coast. In game terms there is no need to add so many in this part of the map.

Andrew


The port of Santa Ana is Newport, which is not much of a base site--at one point I owned a house on the beachfront there. On the other hand, you should have Miramar (which had CD gun emplacements) and Camp Pendleton.

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Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

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Post #: 588
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/25/2008 2:34:15 PM   
wdolson

 

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Some bases are combined into one hex.  March Field is in the game.

Newport, OR is large in area, but it is not very deep.  According to one source I found, the port has only had 8 ocean going merchant ships dock there in the last 3 years.  There was a US Army air base there during the war, but there wasn't much in the way of USN assets. 

In the Northwest, the best ports are all inland (Gray's Harbor, WA was dredged to be a deep water port 10+ years ago, but it was just a fishing port in WW II).  The terrain doesn't provice many good sites for a major ocean port on the Pacific Coast.

Long Beach, CA is adjacent to San Pedro Harbor, which is the port of Los Angeles (today it's the busiest merchant port on the West Coast and one of the busiest in the world).  Before moving to Hawaii, the US Pacific Fleet was based at San Pedro.  It's a major harbor.

Bill
Grew up in Los Angeles, lived 14 years in Seattle, currently living in Portland, OR and one of the North Americans who has been pestering poor Andrew.  (My SO lived in the SF Bay area and still has a lot of family there.  My parents live in Morro Bay, CA.)


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Post #: 589
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/25/2008 5:44:31 PM   
Skyland


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I made some researches about Indochina rail network in 1941. I found that the following railroads were operationals at that time :

Hanoi - Yunnan (in China)
Hanoi - Lang son (China border)
Hanoi - Haiphong
Saigon - Loc Nynh (Cambodgia border)
Saigon - My Tho
Saigon - Phan  Rang - Nha Trang - Hue - Vihn - Hanoi
Phan Rang - Dalat
Phnom Penh - Kompong chnang - Pursat -  Battambang - Poipet (Siam border)

But there was no connection between Saigon and the "Phnom Penh - Siam line" unlike current Witp map.

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Post #: 590
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/25/2008 5:49:35 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Skyland

I made some researches about Indochina rail network in 1941. I found that the following railroads were operationals at that time :

Hanoi - Yunnan (in China)
Hanoi - Lang son (China border)
Hanoi - Haiphong
Saigon - Loc Nynh (Cambodgia border)
Saigon - My Tho
Saigon - Phan  Rang - Nha Trang - Hue - Vihn - Hanoi
Phan Rang - Dalat
Phnom Penh - Kompong chnang - Pursat -  Battambang - Poipet (Siam border)

But there was no connection between Saigon and the "Phnom Penh - Siam line" unlike current Witp map.


Dont worry about it. Its in there.

Edit: As for the US west coast you have to remember that the way it looks now is vastly different than the way it was in 1941.

< Message edited by Yamato hugger -- 12/25/2008 5:51:02 PM >


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Post #: 591
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/29/2008 7:11:53 PM   
mlees


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quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

The port of Santa Ana is Newport, which is not much of a base site--at one point I owned a house on the beachfront there. On the other hand, you should have Miramar (which had CD gun emplacements) and Camp Pendleton.


A Coast Defense gun, at Miramar? Are you sure?

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Post #: 592
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/29/2008 9:32:27 PM   
Nomad


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I grew up in Northern San Diego in the 50's on Mt. Soledad. There was an empty CD gun bunker on the top of the mountain overlooking the beach at La Jolla. It wasn't large, probably only housed a 5" or so. There were others around and some that had been demolished or filled in.

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Post #: 593
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/29/2008 10:40:48 PM   
herwin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mlees


quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

The port of Santa Ana is Newport, which is not much of a base site--at one point I owned a house on the beachfront there. On the other hand, you should have Miramar (which had CD gun emplacements) and Camp Pendleton.


A Coast Defense gun, at Miramar? Are you sure?


Yes, you just had to know where to look. My Chase grandparents lived in La Jolla when I was a kid, my parents later had a house a block from the beach, and I spent four years at UCSD (1968-72), living in student housing off the end of the Miramar runway and later on the Mesa above Scripps. There were a bunch of emplacements in the area.

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

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Post #: 594
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/29/2008 10:42:27 PM   
herwin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

I grew up in Northern San Diego in the 50's on Mt. Soledad. There was an empty CD gun bunker on the top of the mountain overlooking the beach at La Jolla. It wasn't large, probably only housed a 5" or so. There were others around and some that had been demolished or filled in.


Did you know where the Chases lived about half way up the mountain?

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 595
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/30/2008 2:12:54 PM   
Nomad


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I know the area all around there, I lived my teenage years there. I would have to know which side of the mountain. There was access from the South, North and West. The North side had most of the very expensive houses( $1Mil+ in the 50's). The South was mostly middle income and the West was a mixture, depending on where you are talking about.

I know there were a large number of emplacements in the foothills above La Jolla Shores, a picture perfect landing zone. My dad was in the Navy in WW2 and knew the area quite well. I remember him telling me some about a lot of Marines patrolling the beaches both North and South of San Diego and areas that were restricted, although most of that was in the first year or so of the war.


< Message edited by Nomad -- 12/30/2008 2:15:38 PM >


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Post #: 596
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/30/2008 3:03:15 PM   
mlees


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quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

Yes, you just had to know where to look. My Chase grandparents lived in La Jolla when I was a kid, my parents later had a house a block from the beach, and I spent four years at UCSD (1968-72), living in student housing off the end of the Miramar runway and later on the Mesa above Scripps. There were a bunch of emplacements in the area.


(Looks at map.) Ok. I see that now.

I am somewhat familiar with the modern day Miramar perimeter (which ends about 4 or 5 miles from the ocean).

I thought you might have meant Point Loma, or something. Thanks!

(in reply to herwin)
Post #: 597
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 12/30/2008 3:13:40 PM   
herwin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

I know the area all around there, I lived my teenage years there. I would have to know which side of the mountain. There was access from the South, North and West. The North side had most of the very expensive houses( $1Mil+ in the 50's). The South was mostly middle income and the West was a mixture, depending on where you are talking about.

I know there were a large number of emplacements in the foothills above La Jolla Shores, a picture perfect landing zone. My dad was in the Navy in WW2 and knew the area quite well. I remember him telling me some about a lot of Marines patrolling the beaches both North and South of San Diego and areas that were restricted, although most of that was in the first year or so of the war.



We lived on Via Capri for a summer and then my parents bought a house on Paseo del Ocaso. My grandparents lived somewhere around Lookout Drive back in the 1950s.

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 598
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 1/11/2009 1:54:45 AM   
Fletcher


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Would japanese player get victory points from damaged/destroyed allied industry (australian or US) like in the WITP ? or this would change ?.
Thanks in advance.

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Post #: 599
RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread - 1/14/2009 3:34:50 AM   
vettim89


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I know the issue of distortion was addressed a while ago but I was wondering how happy the map team is with making this fit. Obviously the problem gets bigger the further away from teh equator you get. SO the NoPAC and southern OZ/NZ would be the most effected. I beleive it was said that Oz was 30% too large on the orginal WItP map. Is it any better on the AE map?

Thinking backing to the old SPI WItP board game (if you could call a game that took up half my basement a board game) the designers took a very interesting appraoch to the problem. The map was devided into three sections: Tropical, Temperate, and Cold (vs Artic because that would be incorrect below the equator). Hexes were 60 NM in Tropical Zone, 50 NM in the Temperate Zone, and 40 NM in the Cold Zone. Took a slide rule to figure out air ranges and ship speeds when they crossed a zone but the data was expressed in NM not hexes. Actually it was all done in 10 nm increments so 6,5, 4 per hex respectively.

Just wondering hwo well the squeezed AE map deal with it

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