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RE: playable yet? Part II - 12/8/2008 12:39:01 AM   
NeverMan

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: borner

Russia went from first to next to last... maybe this is a new feature random movement phases?


It's probably an EiH rule.!

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Post #: 91
RE: playable yet? Part II - 12/8/2008 3:54:37 AM   
borner


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good point, I had not thought of that..... 

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Post #: 92
RE: playable yet? Part II - 1/6/2009 4:58:14 AM   
borner


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Breathing some life into an old thread here...... Seeing as I started two of these to mainly complain about the game, I must stand up and give Marshal credit. In multiple games, the biggest bug we have run into for a month is the above issue with the Russian movement order getting changed around. Could it be, a light at the end of this (beta version) tunnel??? 

(in reply to borner)
Post #: 93
RE: playable yet? Part II - 1/6/2009 12:50:42 PM   
Phatguy

 

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Okay,maybe its in the wrong thread, but I dont have the game yet but am very seriously contemplating a purchase later today to get in before the sale ends.. Would you recommend it warts and all?

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Post #: 94
RE: playable yet? Part II - 1/6/2009 1:03:36 PM   
Marshall Ellis


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quote:

ORIGINAL: borner

Breathing some life into an old thread here...... Seeing as I started two of these to mainly complain about the game, I must stand up and give Marshal credit. In multiple games, the biggest bug we have run into for a month is the above issue with the Russian movement order getting changed around. Could it be, a light at the end of this (beta version) tunnel??? 



I looked at this and honestly have no idea why Russia is not first??? This is not the case for EiA OR EiH. I may add this to our 1.06 list unless anybody knows why they are 2nd to last??? Encouraging news, Borner!

_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



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Post #: 95
RE: playable yet? Part II - 1/7/2009 2:23:30 PM   
iamspamus

 

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Yeah, they should be first for land movement (except for France choosing that option.) Russia is cool.

Keep up the good work, ME.
Jason

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis


quote:

ORIGINAL: borner

Breathing some life into an old thread here...... Seeing as I started two of these to mainly complain about the game, I must stand up and give Marshal credit. In multiple games, the biggest bug we have run into for a month is the above issue with the Russian movement order getting changed around. Could it be, a light at the end of this (beta version) tunnel??? 



I looked at this and honestly have no idea why Russia is not first??? This is not the case for EiA OR EiH. I may add this to our 1.06 list unless anybody knows why they are 2nd to last??? Encouraging news, Borner!


(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 96
RE: playable yet? Part II - 1/7/2009 2:24:47 PM   
Marshall Ellis


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I will add and change.
Appreciate the encouragement, Jason!



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Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



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Post #: 97
RE: playable yet? Part II - 1/13/2009 5:54:55 PM   
NeverMan

 

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This game is NOT playable, at least not in any enjoyable manner. It's slow slow slow and still buggy buggy buggy.

I have stopped joining or starting games and am eagerly waiting for the last game I am in to die (probably from some bug).

I'm sure I will get all kinds of crap for this but whatever. BUYER BEWARE!!!

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Post #: 98
RE: playable yet? Part II - 1/13/2009 6:24:41 PM   
Spartan07

 

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Why are you even still around neverman if its so bad? Why dont you just leave the rest of us who ARE enjoying it and appreciate what Matrix are doing to make it better, in peace.

Seems like this thread is just a pick me up for whiners....


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Post #: 99
RE: playable yet? Part II - 1/13/2009 6:52:13 PM   
pzgndr

 

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quote:

Seems like this thread is just a pick me up for whiners....


Roger that. Some psychologist could probably explain the pitiful behavior, not that it changes anything. The crybabies will continue to cry, demanding attention. The rest of us adults shall soldier on and ignore them as best we can. I continue to look forward and remain optimistic that this will be a great game.

(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 100
RE: playable yet? Part II - 1/13/2009 9:25:17 PM   
fvianello


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan
This game is NOT playable, at least not in any enjoyable manner. It's slow slow slow and still buggy buggy buggy.
I have stopped joining or starting games and am eagerly waiting for the last game I am in to die (probably from some bug).
I'm sure I will get all kinds of crap for this but whatever. BUYER BEWARE!!!


My standard answer here:
I'm currently in 3 PBEM games: August 1808, May 1807 and a just-started jan 1805, having a lot of fun in every game. Some little problem once in a while, but nothing game-stopping.

So I'd say it's definitely playable

_____________________________

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Post #: 101
RE: playable yet? Part II - 1/14/2009 2:07:47 AM   
Dancing Bear

 

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I'm sure Neverman is like the rest of us, and logs in all the time when he has got online only to find out it is not his turn yet, and is looking to kill some time.

The PBEM game is quite slow, and this can be a real drag. In quite a few of our games the slow pace has lead a number of players to drop out and games have collapsed. Not everyone is that patient. While you guys have stuck though it, I'm sure you have been in games where players have dropped out. Does this mean that the players who are not patient did not have valid points?

As to bugs, I think the Marshall is almost there. Almost nobody puts anything up on the technical support page these days, which is a sure sign things are almost there (although a few bugs have re-appeared in 1.05). It may be slow, but it seems to be a functioning game now, and hopefully the Marshall can use the time that used to go to fixing bugs to make some improvements to things like the naval rules, security and speed, that would really make this game a winner for everyone.

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Post #: 102
RE: playable yet? Part II - 1/14/2009 4:02:38 AM   
borner


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I have played in a couple of games with Neverman, and can understand his fustration 100%. Things are better now than months ago, far more so than the first disaster...errrr...version of the game that came out. It is probably now where it should have been at release. That being said, something this complex was probably impossible to get bug free before release. Now, if you can just erase EiH "enhancements", that would be real progress!!!!!! 


As for PBEM speed, it depends on the players. if you get 7 that are committed to checking for his or her turn daily, things can move along fairly well. It will never be as fast as getting together all day Sunday, but you can get through a phase or more per week with the right group.

(in reply to Dancing Bear)
Post #: 103
RE: playable yet? Part II - 1/14/2009 4:43:48 AM   
mr.godo

 

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What does this game have going for it? Where is all this enjoyment you speak of? A computer game for me involves something other than sending emails around and repackaging files. That's more like work.

I'm with Neverman. If you have a lot of patience and enjoy rethinking your move over the span of a week while other players are making their moves, and you really enjoy the occasional battle, maybe this is worthwhile for you. I was interested in the game because of EiA, the notion of playing the game remotely, and seeing the results of battles. That is what kills this for me. Just because it is done in the game doesn't make it right. It is ludicrous to me.

What the game really turned into for me was a file management system where I would get a bunch of files by email, I would load them up into my computer then "Prussian Naval Phase"... woo hoo!!!!! YES!!!! GLORY GLORY!!!! Then I'd package up my turn file and send it to the other six of them where I'd wait another week for the land phase. Adventure? Excitement? A Prussian General needs these things!

Playable? Not in it's current state.

If it is so enjoyable, does anyone want to buy my key?


(in reply to borner)
Post #: 104
RE: playable yet? Part II - 1/14/2009 6:57:02 AM   
hellfirejet


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I for one am not interested in internet game play, all I want is a game that I can enjoy in the here and now, I prefer to play the games ftf yes, it is great fun playing against other human players,but for me not vital.

If no other human players are available then a stronger AI, is what the game requires most, as they say Rome was not built in a day, the game can only improve with Marshalls and us mere mortals playing the game, and resolving any problems we find during actual game play.

Also I have played the game solo, I play all the Major Countrys and try as much as possible, to have my own agenda for each Country I play. Multitasking or what!!!!

Is the game playable yet ? YES IT IS PLAYABLE !

Bottom line is stop moaning, and help everyone improve the game with constructive criticism, or just except you made a mistake with the game, and go play else where.

< Message edited by hellfirejet -- 1/14/2009 9:07:38 AM >


_____________________________

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Post #: 105
RE: playable yet? Part II - 1/14/2009 2:53:57 PM   
iamspamus

 

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Hear, hear! Well put, sir.

quote:

ORIGINAL: hellfirejet

I for one am not interested in internet game play, all I want is a game that I can enjoy in the here and now, I prefer to play the games ftf yes, it is great fun playing against other human players,but for me not vital.

If no other human players are available then a stronger AI, is what the game requires most, as they say Rome was not built in a day, the game can only improve with Marshalls and us mere mortals playing the game, and resolving any problems we find during actual game play.

Also I have played the game solo, I play all the Major Countrys and try as much as possible, to have my own agenda for each Country I play. Multitasking or what!!!!

Is the game playable yet ? YES IT IS PLAYABLE !

Bottom line is stop moaning, and help everyone improve the game with constructive criticism, or just except you made a mistake with the game, and go play else where.


(in reply to hellfirejet)
Post #: 106
RE: playable yet? Part II - 1/15/2009 2:40:13 PM   
NeverMan

 

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1. For all those complaining about my posts, why don't you take your OWN advice and STOP READING THIS THREAD THEN!!!! WOW, what a concept!!

2. The thread exists to give newcomers an idea of what people think of the game. If only people who loved the game posted that would be quite sad. Pardon me for wanting to live in a society where opinions (even if different) are still valued.

Fasicst pigs!!

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Post #: 107
RE: playable yet? Part II - 1/15/2009 2:46:01 PM   
hellfirejet


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Hi NeverMan,

We don't post messages just because we love the game, quite the opposite really, we post because we want to improve the game for everyone, and surprise surprise that includes you.


_____________________________

Regards,
Graham.

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction! Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller

(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 108
RE: playable yet? Part II - 1/15/2009 5:15:36 PM   
pzgndr

 

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quote:

I have stopped joining or starting games and am eagerly waiting for the last game I am in to die.


@Neverman. Do everybody a big favor. Quit your unplayable game right now. Uninstall your unplayable game from your harddrive right now. Then go away and take your selfish childish negative rantings with you. Quite a few of us are tired of your obvious and repetitive bashing of this game, Marshall Ellis, and Matrix Games. Your immature behavior on a public forum is shameful. It's sad really. No game for a few bucks is worth this kind of nonsense. And no game company or its many other customers who appear to actually enjoy this and other games needs to put up with this crap. Go away already.


(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 109
RE: playable yet? Part II - 1/15/2009 8:55:04 PM   
NeverMan

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

quote:

I have stopped joining or starting games and am eagerly waiting for the last game I am in to die.


@Neverman. Do everybody a big favor. Quit your unplayable game right now. Uninstall your unplayable game from your harddrive right now. Then go away and take your selfish childish negative rantings with you. Quite a few of us are tired of your obvious and repetitive bashing of this game, Marshall Ellis, and Matrix Games. Your immature behavior on a public forum is shameful. It's sad really. No game for a few bucks is worth this kind of nonsense. And no game company or its many other customers who appear to actually enjoy this and other games needs to put up with this crap. Go away already.




Thank you for your mature and thoughtful post.

(in reply to pzgndr)
Post #: 110
RE: playable yet? Part II - 1/15/2009 8:55:50 PM   
NeverMan

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hellfirejet

Hi NeverMan,

We don't post messages just because we love the game, quite the opposite really, we post because we want to improve the game for everyone, and surprise surprise that includes you.



I wasn't refering to you actually, I was refering to people who only post to complain about other people who post giving negative reviews of the game.

(in reply to hellfirejet)
Post #: 111
RE: playable yet? Part II - 1/15/2009 9:20:18 PM   
pzgndr

 

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quote:

Thank you for your mature and thoughtful post.


I wish I could say the same. Your posts, however, generally show neither maturity or thoughtfulness.

quote:

For all those complaining about my posts, why don't you take your OWN advice and STOP READING THIS THREAD THEN!!!!


No. If you choose to repeatedly complain over and over and over about the same things you have already repeatedly complained about, that are already fixed or are on the bug tracker list and acknowledged to be fixed, then fine. Go ahead. Knock your socks off. That is your right. It is also my right and the right of others on this public forum to offer a response which you may or may not care for. Get used to it. Or maybe reconsider YOUR behavior, eh?

(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 112
RE: playable yet? Part II - 1/16/2009 2:53:47 AM   
borner


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To be honest, to give an avenue for venting fustrations is what I started this thread for. However, for thing to get down to the level of personal insults generally shows a lack of anything intelligent worth posting. Regardless of what side of the argument the person is on.   I would hope Martix would hit those that resort to this with a rather large hamer 



that is not to say things have not gotten better. As I have mentioned in several posts, they have, and this trend I am sure will continue thanks to Marshall's efforts, but do not try and say there are not things about the game that make this topic a valid discussion

(in reply to pzgndr)
Post #: 113
RE: playable yet? Part II - 1/16/2009 4:53:15 AM   
mr.godo

 

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For those who find the game playable, would you be able to describe for whom the game is playable? It's obviously a matter of opinion. Perhaps if we could characterize who would be suited for the game, it could convince fence sitters one way or the other, as well as describe the clientele.
other than board gaming grognards, of course. but if someone isn't at all familiar with napoleon or games in general, how would you know to recommend the game to someone?

i have pulled one person in and won't be doing that again. to me, this is still an exercise in development and i already have a job. i do not believe in the community effort marketing theory that is espoused by some in this thread. let's pull together and make this game better? here's a manual. this is how you play. enjoy.

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Post #: 114
RE: playable yet? Part II - 1/16/2009 11:45:48 AM   
Mardonius


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It is definitely a specialist gamer environment. I would not say that the person would have to be a specialist in the Napoleonic period but they must be a specialist in the diplomacy type games like Diplomacy, Britanania, Machiavelli, or even games like Monopoly if done with enough players. The game is mostly about human interactions. It is a close shadow of real world international relations in its concepts. This is not a shoot em up video game by any means. But if someone likes games that involve a significant portion of dealmaking, then have them at it. The same mechanics involved in this game (with some changes here and there) could be adopted to play eras from 5th century BC Greece to 1815, if not further.

(in reply to mr.godo)
Post #: 115
RE: playable yet? Part II - 1/16/2009 2:57:11 PM   
pzgndr

 

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quote:

to give an avenue for venting fustrations is what I started this thread for


There is already a means for venting frustrations. Its the EiANW Bug Tracker at http://eiamantis.babel.com.au/ The list currently shows 441 "frustrations", most of them already resolved and the rest acknowledged to be resolved. What then is really the point of a thread like this, and the failed thread that preceeded it? When venting transforms into repetitive ranting and progresses into obvious bashing of the game, the developer, and the game company, then that represents immature behavior and there's no excuse for it.

Allow me to be clear. A person's right to complain is not the issue. The validity of any of the complaints is not the issue. I don't disagree with any of the bug reports. I don't disagree that develepment of this game could have been different, could have been better. With regard to Neverman in particular, I agree that classic EiA OOB scenarios should be developed, that TCP/IP play be implemented, and most of the other issues that he has raised be resolved. But, all of these issues have been raised and discussed, and IMHO adequately addressed; i.e., Marshall Ellis and Matrix Games have acknowledged the issues, resolved most of them already, and are committed to fixing the remaining issues. The thing is, it will take time to fix all of those remaining issues and players need to be patient. There is no alternative. Whining and complaining repeatedly with increasing frequency and being more vocal about it each time accomplishes absolutely nothing. That is not "venting"; that is something else entirely and it is uncalled for. And the rest of us do not have to put up with it. I choose not to put up with it. And I will speak up. This is MY venting of frustration. Get used to it.

quote:

this is still an exercise in development and i already have a job. i do not believe in the community effort marketing theory that is espoused by some in this thread. let's pull together and make this game better?


This is another issue. In theory, I agree that game products should be released as perfect products with all possible user-desired features properly implemented, bug-free, and well-documented in a hardcopy color game manual. There should be absolutely no need to patch a game product, ever. Players should be able to immediately jump into a game as complex as EiA, have a whiz-bang tutorial instruct them on how to suck eggs to the nth degree, and be able to play expertly from the get-go. Right. And if one is not doing drugs then one may have much more sober and realistic perspective on the real-world of computer wargames developed by individual programmers for a niche market and not much profit potential at all. This is not World of Warcraft stuff with millions of players and a multi-million dollar development budget to provide all these wonderful features. Perchance to dream, eh?

I looked at one website listing EiA pbem players worldwide. It was about 250 names for what I assume was/is the active die-hard community? I'll assume double that amount for total active community of casual EiA board game players. Throw in other players who have been interested in the classic game which has been out of print and can now buy the computer version. Say 1000. Throw in double that for casual players willing to buy the game to see what it's like. Now we're talking about 2000 sales, total? I have no idea what the actual Matrix sales figures are but let's assume that except for pick up sales out of sheer curiosity that the target community of customers is only 2000. At about $70 each per game, that's only about $140K, which I provide only as an estimate. You may never have engaged in software development or software development contracting, but I have (for example, a $2.8M effort for the Integrated Theater Engagement Model for DoD, and that was back in the early 1990's), and I can assure you that for a $140K development budget (that's like 1 man-year of effort, total) you WILL NOT produce a complex computer wargame product such as EiA meeting the lofty customer expectations I listed above. Unless you are on drugs. Perhaps you have a worthwhile suggestion about how specifically a game like EiA could or should be developed in the future from scratch with a very limited budget?? Hello? Get real.

The harsh reality is that these niche games are developed voluntarily by individual programmers and are as much a hobby project or labor of love as they are a formal business. Whether you like it or not, it IS an exercise in development and does require a certain degree of community effort. If that's not to one's personal liking, one should not buy these niche wargames. But some folks buy them anyway expecting them to be what they are not and then complaining about it. That's just stupid. What we have is a community development effort, a hobby for entertainment, and most of us are grudgingly willing to help nurse this thing along to become a great game. Hopefully to everyone's satisfaction, even Neverman. But it is only going to happen with everyone pulling together and helping to improve the game. Whining and complaining will not change anything or help accelerate the ongoing development towards final completion. Please help out, or just go away.

(in reply to Mardonius)
Post #: 116
RE: playable yet? Part II - 1/16/2009 6:41:47 PM   
NeverMan

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: borner

  I would hope Martix would hit those that resort to this with a rather large hamer 



Matrix would only respond and act if the side throwing the insults were the "negative" (for lack of a better term) side, otherwise, they will talk and do nothing about these unintelligent and immature posts. Why would they, these are the people defending the game and they have money at stake in the game so it makes sense for them to ignore these people and let this idiocy continue.

(in reply to borner)
Post #: 117
RE: playable yet? Part II - 1/16/2009 6:44:13 PM   
NeverMan

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mardonius

It is definitely a specialist gamer environment. I would not say that the person would have to be a specialist in the Napoleonic period but they must be a specialist in the diplomacy type games like Diplomacy, Britanania, Machiavelli, or even games like Monopoly if done with enough players. The game is mostly about human interactions. It is a close shadow of real world international relations in its concepts. This is not a shoot em up video game by any means. But if someone likes games that involve a significant portion of dealmaking, then have them at it. The same mechanics involved in this game (with some changes here and there) could be adopted to play eras from 5th century BC Greece to 1815, if not further.


This assessment, while good, I think is only partial.

I would include that if you like and enjoy playing Chess by Snail Mail then the major disadvantage of this game will not bother you one bit. If you find that you like technology, then the pace of this game might get on your nerves.

Also, if you don't mind working around and dealing with constant bugs then this game might be for you. If you find that you prefer games to be polished before you play them then this game probably isn't for you.

(in reply to Mardonius)
Post #: 118
RE: playable yet? Part II - 1/16/2009 6:47:12 PM   
NeverMan

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

This is MY venting of frustration. Get used to it.



pzgndr, that's fine, no problem. I will give my opinion of the game as I see it on occasion and you will vent about me doing such. So, as you call me a whiner, so do you whine. So aren't you a little bit upset at yourself for continuosly whining on this thread? Your logic would suggest as much.

(in reply to pzgndr)
Post #: 119
RE: playable yet? Part II - 1/16/2009 8:58:20 PM   
pzgndr

 

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As before, this thread is going off way off topic.  It is accomplishing nothing. 

But like a game of Whack-A-Mole, I guess if some folks want to continue to express their negative opinions and personal gripes, then others are free to offer smackdown rebuttals.  If nothing else we can provide some comic relief for the audiance while EiANW game development slowly and surely continues onward toward completion not because of the whining and complaining, but despite it all. 

Very well NeverMan.  Your turn.

(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 120
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