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Empire Total war VS CoG: EE

 
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Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 1/22/2009 11:33:16 PM   
Jonah


Posts: 190
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline 		Is it just me, or is anyone else concerned about this games succsess with Sega's Empire Total war coming out near the same time. With two games on similar subjects, will a game with (no offense to matrix, I personally like turned based better) better graphics and a real time stratagy aproach forshadow the new CoG?

Curious for other people's thoughts on the matter, thanks!

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Post #: 1
RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 1/22/2009 11:44:49 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Nope...I may well get both, but if I am only getting one it will be this.

These people done remarkable things with Forge of Freedom...

Empire surely does have the "fancier" (better is a relative term to each individual) graphics, but my experience of the Total War games suggest they are aimed at the mass market as opposed to the more niche "hard core" wargamer. Besides, Total War politics has always sucked...seemed pointless putting it in to me.

**hides in corner and waits for everyone to remind him that it's called Total War for a reason**

(in reply to Jonah)
Post #: 2
RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 1/23/2009 12:04:11 AM   
Gil R.


Posts: 10821
Joined: 4/1/2005
Status: offline 		For the record, I will shoot the first person who mentions DRM.

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 3
RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 1/23/2009 12:34:55 AM   
2ndACR


Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline 		DRM.......................ducks and runs.

(in reply to Gil R.)
Post #: 4
RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 1/23/2009 12:40:13 AM   
2ndACR


Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline 		But really.....I will get both, but if had to choose, well it would be this one........Forge sold me that they put alot of time and effort into the game.

(in reply to 2ndACR)
Post #: 5
RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 1/23/2009 3:13:24 AM   
Mus

 

Posts: 1759
Joined: 11/13/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

For the record, I will shoot the first person who mentions DRM.



Dont look now but you were the first to mention DRM. Oh and BTW before you shoot yourself what is DRM?


(in reply to Gil R.)
Post #: 6
RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 1/23/2009 3:18:39 AM   
Mus

 

Posts: 1759
Joined: 11/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jonah

Is it just me, or is anyone else concerned about this games succsess with Sega's Empire Total war coming out near the same time.


They are different beasts.

Cog:EE is more of a simulation type grand strategy game for more serious wargamers and Empires Total War will be like all the other Total War series and be more arcadey and focused on eye candy.

I will get both, but the last Total War I really really liked was the first Medieval.

(in reply to Jonah)
Post #: 7
RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 1/23/2009 4:40:56 AM   
Gil R.


Posts: 10821
Joined: 4/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

For the record, I will shoot the first person who mentions DRM.



Dont look now but you were the first to mention DRM. Oh and BTW before you shoot yourself what is DRM?





Hmm. Seems I've hijacked my own thread! DRM is copy-protection protection software that is extremely unpopular over at Wargamer.com (not to mention various other places), leading to countless discussions of it. My comment, made in the knowledge that a lot of you would appreciate the reference, was an allusion to this discussion of COG:EE: http://www.wargamer.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=308547

(in reply to Mus)
Post #: 8
RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 1/23/2009 4:48:42 AM   
Gil R.


Posts: 10821
Joined: 4/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jonah

Is it just me, or is anyone else concerned about this games succsess with Sega's Empire Total war coming out near the same time. With two games on similar subjects, will a game with (no offense to matrix, I personally like turned based better) better graphics and a real time stratagy aproach forshadow the new CoG?

Curious for other people's thoughts on the matter, thanks!


It's a good question. My own thinking is that I'm not concerned about ETW cutting into sales, because I think the games are aimed at different markets, and people who are into Napoleonics will eventually buy both. If someone wants to buy ETW now and gets COG:EE in six months that's still a sale, so it's no big deal. Moreover, there's reason to think that there can be some amount of synergy when comparable products come out at the same time. For example, people visiting this thread who didn't know before about ETW now do, and might end up purchasing it as well, while COG:EE may well be discussed in forums and threads devoted to ETW, intriguing fans of that game enough to come here. (All it takes is one person who owns both games making a favorable comment about COG:EE in an ETW-oriented thread and there is a change of increased sales for COG:EE.) Furthermore, ETW is bound to get more mainstream reviews than COG:EE will, but perhaps there will be some reviewers who are aware of COG:EE and mention it in their ETW review. So, in general, the release of ETW will create more interest for games devoted to this era, and might even lead to some positive buzz for COG:EE specifically.


(in reply to Jonah)
Post #: 9
RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 1/23/2009 9:38:35 AM   
moose1999

 

Posts: 788
Joined: 10/26/2006
Status: offline 		I look at it this way:
ETW will open up the age of muskets to a lot of Total War fans (and others lured in by the media machine) and that will, in the long term, be a good thing for all Napoleonic games.
Especially as I think the gameplay in ETW, realism-wise, will pretty much suck - both on land and on sea.
So, some ETW players will undoubtedly start looking for more Napoleonic games (and, I assume, a lot of them will be looking for games with deeper/more realistic/more tactical/more strategic gameplay) and some of these will pick up COG: EE.



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(in reply to Gil R.)
Post #: 10
RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 1/23/2009 9:45:44 AM   
Flickjax

 

Posts: 19
Joined: 9/9/2008
Status: offline 		I will get both.

To the previous poster i hate the term more realistic because this term cannot be proved and for pity's sake these are games so they are not realistic in any way........

(in reply to moose1999)
Post #: 11
RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 1/23/2009 10:04:00 AM   
Mus

 

Posts: 1759
Joined: 11/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

Hmm. Seems I've hijacked my own thread! DRM is copy-protection protection software that is extremely unpopular over at Wargamer.com (not to mention various other places), leading to countless discussions of it.


Is that the one that ends up slowing down your DVD drive speeds? I had experience with a copy protection that did that to me and after reformatting I have tried to avoid copy protection like the plague.

LOL. Look what you did.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flickjax

To the previous poster i hate the term more realistic because this term cannot be proved and for pity's sake these are games so they are not realistic in any way........


Sure I cant get shot in the arm and then get it sawed off without anesthesia in either game, but COG is hands down more "realistic" than Total War.

COG has division and now brigade level tactical battles inside a grand strategy shell while the Total War engines grand strategy is nothing but a race up a tech tree to build the strongest units and its tactical battle mode is moving around little blocks of 60-100 characters wearing period looking dress.

I like the Total War series, but it is neither historically accurate nor realistic and doesnt try very hard to be either or claim to be either AFAIK.

I remember during the development of Rome Total War several historian types complaining about the fact that the "egyption" faction was "pharaonic" instead of "hellenized" and had anachronistic units like chariots. The developer couldnt have cared less.

< Message edited by Mus -- 1/23/2009 10:23:09 AM >

(in reply to Gil R.)
Post #: 12
RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 1/23/2009 6:57:48 PM   
evwalt

 

Posts: 644
Joined: 11/14/2007
Status: offline 		I agree that Empire: Total War (first I have heard of it, BTW) will bring more people into the area.  I am looking to buy some more in-depth games on the roman area because I have gotten back into Rome: Total War.  Great Invasions, here I come!

For those talking about "realism," I agree Rome:Total War sucked.  I have discovered lately that modders have totally changed the game.  For anyone who has it (and can pull yourself away from the WIF final countdown), I would suggest trying a Rome: Total War mod called Rome:Total Realism (I use the Extended Realism sub-mod). 

You will thank me (your wife will not).  I may be repaided with some new excuses for being glued to the computer, I have used up all my good ones. 

(in reply to Mus)
Post #: 13
RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 2/1/2009 3:12:14 AM   
killroyishere

 

Posts: 639
Joined: 4/23/2008
Status: offline
quote:

while the Total War engines grand strategy is nothing but a race up a tech tree to build the strongest units and its tactical battle mode is moving around little blocks of 60-100 characters wearing period looking dress.


  Not to forget that you really only get 20 units to actually play with an maneuver (only 16 in the origional TW series). Sure if you have the machine you can represent 10000 little men on the battlefield, but, still it all comes down to 20 units total no matter how many eye candy graphics you have on the screen. You get way more than that playing Mad Minutes 2nd Manassas.

  I have Forge of Freedom and the origional COG and very much look forward to COG:EE as I enjoy the tactical battles in this series a lot moreso than I do the last few TW games. I too like MTW(origional) the best. I didn't play Shogun or its expansion, how is it?


(in reply to evwalt)
Post #: 14
RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 2/1/2009 9:21:31 AM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		I'm probably going to purchase COG:EE, because I don't own a napoleonic era game yet. However Empire I rather rent from video store, as I did with the precursor title. TW games are nice to watch, but too shallow for my taste and I don't sped 50 bucks for something which get boring after a few hours.

(in reply to killroyishere)
Post #: 15
RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 2/1/2009 2:26:20 PM   
MacDuff

 

Posts: 185
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline 		COG-EE will probably be the first one I buy. I'll wait until hear more reviews from players regarding ETW.

Indeed, I bought, MTW, RTW and M2TW Gold, but I had to return M2TW because I couldn't get it to run on my system (Vista) due its copy protection (Securom I think it was). After I returned it, I began hearing about all these anomalies about M2TW. For instance, each turn was 2 years, the AI would never combine the navies, and more I can't think of at the moment. I was glad I returned it.

I'll probably be reviewing blogs for awhile before I ever buy ETW.

(in reply to Gil R.)
Post #: 16
RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 2/1/2009 3:22:43 PM   
TheOx

 

Posts: 276
Joined: 10/19/2005
Status: offline 		E:TW is 60 miles wide and 1/2 inch deep. COG:EE will be 45 miles wide and have the Marianas Trench at its bottom.

(in reply to MacDuff)
Post #: 17
RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 2/1/2009 9:51:01 PM   
Mus

 

Posts: 1759
Joined: 11/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: killroyishere

I too like MTW(origional) the best. I didn't play Shogun or its expansion, how is it?



Little OT but, Shogun was probably the best balanced of the series as it was an adaptation of the board game with the tactical battles playing out the results instead of dice in the original. Best balanced in a tactical sense as well as there were not as many units and every unit had a counter. Also morale and fatique were far more important in STW than in any other game in the series.

As soon as they abandoned the boardgame feel of STW and MTW I feel the series got a little hokey. The movement on the strategic map for one thing doesnt work at all.

< Message edited by Mus -- 2/1/2009 9:54:46 PM >

(in reply to killroyishere)
Post #: 18
RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 2/3/2009 7:49:22 PM   
Joram

 

Posts: 3198
Joined: 7/15/2005
Status: offline 		As others have said I don't really think that the games are comparable.  You're comparing an arcade game to a simulation.  Not to say ETW won't be fun but it fills a different niche.  CoG:EE fills the simulation niche so if that's where your tastes lie, then you'll get it regardless of how ETW turns out. 

I think the only real concern is if the economy is going to allow people to buy any games at all!

(in reply to Mus)
Post #: 19
RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 2/3/2009 10:02:47 PM   
Hertston


Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline 		The last decent 'Total War' was the first 'Medieval'. That said, I'll read some reviews from sensible sources, review the DRM situation and decide then. To be honest, if I abandon my principles in a moment of mad shop-a-holicism, 'Jutland' is a much more likely buy at the mo.

CoG:EE depends on pricing; a sensible upgrade option from CoG and I'll buy it, otherwise I won't.

(in reply to Joram)
Post #: 20
RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 2/3/2009 10:57:51 PM   
habakuk

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 2/28/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

The last decent 'Total War' was the first 'Medieval'.


This.

(in reply to Hertston)
Post #: 21
RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 2/25/2009 9:44:48 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joram

As others have said I don't really think that the games are comparable.  You're comparing an arcade game to a simulation.  Not to say ETW won't be fun but it fills a different niche.  CoG:EE fills the simulation niche so if that's where your tastes lie, then you'll get it regardless of how ETW turns out. 

I think the only real concern is if the economy is going to allow people to buy any games at all!


COG a simulation? Empire edition must be a totally different game to the first then,because COG is not even close.

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Post #: 22
RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 2/26/2009 7:51:42 AM   
Joram

 

Posts: 3198
Joined: 7/15/2005
Status: offline 		Constructive comments are welcome, just random sniping isn't helping anyone.

In the context that CoG:EE is a wargame, the word simulation is appropriate.  If you want to argue it doesn't simulate what you want it to, that is another matter entirely.

(in reply to ASHBERY76)
Post #: 23
RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 2/26/2009 3:28:09 PM   
Steely Glint


Posts: 580
Joined: 9/23/2003
Status: offline 		If ETW ends in 1799, and the Napoleonic Era runs from November 1799 to June 1815, then how can ETW possibly be an Napoleonic Era game?

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(in reply to Joram)
Post #: 24
RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 2/27/2009 1:24:45 AM   
Titanwarrior89


Posts: 3283
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline 		Wouldn't Empire be more-lets say Ahistorical as compared to Cog:EE?   Rome totalwar was not very historical.  The only thing they have in common is the era.  Is that correct?

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Post #: 25
RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 2/27/2009 5:07:00 AM   
Queeg


Posts: 495
Joined: 6/23/2005
Status: offline 		Prediction: ETW will be released with great fanfare and critical acclaim. It will sell well. Most folks will play it and accept what inevitably will be a weak campaign game.

But some folks will play ETW and think, "I know there must be a better game out there." COG:EE will scratch that itch.

I think the release of ETW may turn out to be the best thing that could have happened to COG:EE.

(in reply to Jonah)
Post #: 26
RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 2/27/2009 8:44:30 AM   
Matto


Posts: 1138
Joined: 11/24/2000
From: Czech Republic
Status: offline 		I'm looking for ETW and will buy it ... but CoG:EE is completely different. Everyone, who loves really strategy/tactics turn based game, everybody who loves really deep thinking about strategy, diplomacy ... and of course tactics ... will love CoG:EE and must have it ! And sure, CoG:EE is about Napoleonic wars
ETW will be great for more lazy players or for people looking for more action ...
I will play both, CoG:EE is good for my brain, ETW will be good for relax time with gunpowder ... enjoy both !


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Excuse my English ... I hope is better then Your Czech ... :o)
My MatrixGames: WitP, WitP AE, WPO, JTCS, P&S, CoGEE, ATG, GoA, B.Academy, C-GW, OoB all DLCs, all SC, FoG2/E, most AGEOD games ...


(in reply to Queeg)
Post #: 27
RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 2/27/2009 9:15:18 AM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Steely Glint

If ETW ends in 1799, and the Napoleonic Era runs from November 1799 to June 1815, then how can ETW possibly be an Napoleonic Era game?


It isn't. But maybe the inevitable expansion will take it there.

(in reply to Steely Glint)
Post #: 28
RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 2/27/2009 9:01:55 PM   
PDiFolco

 

Posts: 1200
Joined: 10/11/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: habakuk


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

The last decent 'Total War' was the first 'Medieval'.


This.

Nope, it was Shogun ! Since then it has been on the donwside, these games have 0 historicity, uninteresting campaigns, and sell for the spectacular battle graphicz - I'd rather see a movie ! Don't care for E:TW, nor any MTW3, RTW2, whatever.

(in reply to habakuk)
Post #: 29
RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 2/28/2009 12:19:52 AM   
Dreadnaught


Posts: 23
Joined: 12/26/2007
Status: offline 		Well, I'm buying CoG:EE right away (like right now) and I will wait for E:TW. The TW games are great, but the fun ends quickly. CoG:EE sounds awesome, and it will keep me occupied long enough for decent mods for TW to come out.

(in reply to PDiFolco)
Post #: 30
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