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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/14/2009 10:15:07 AM   
Dixie


Posts: 10303
Joined: 3/10/2006
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Wellington IC should be replaced by IIIC, Unsure of what units were equipped with, they may have arrived in theatre with IC but upgraded to IIIC Looking further.??

Thanks



Wellington MkICs were in India and were fairly common, but the MkIII and MkX the more usual types as the war progressed.

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Post #: 1021
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/14/2009 11:15:01 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Wellington IC should be replaced by IIIC, Unsure of what units were equipped with, they may have arrived in theatre with IC but upgraded to IIIC Looking further.??

Thanks



Wellington MkICs were in India and were fairly common, but the MkIII and MkX the more usual types as the war progressed.


Thanks Dixie,

On reading further I found that the early squadrons arrived with the Well IC but later were using the Well X.

I dont know that much changed between types except for the powered turrets on the later models.

PS I read your PM after this, thanks for the information.

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Post #: 1022
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/15/2009 9:40:07 PM   
W T Door

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 1/15/2009
Status: offline 		I'm curious about changes to some of the planes in AE (it's sounding pretty good already).

Will the US four engine transports such as the C-54 appear?

Some of the patrol planes such as Ventura/Harpoon series aren't terribly useful now, even though with the addition of radar, early sonobuoys and MAD they should be much more effective than in stock. Has this been addressed?

How a back of the envelope comparisson of the PB4Y and PB4Y-2?

Will we have the C-46? I don't have any references handy, but believe it was pretty common in the Pacific theater.

(in reply to JeffroK)
Post #: 1023
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/16/2009 9:34:28 AM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: W T Door

I'm curious about changes to some of the planes in AE (it's sounding pretty good already).

Will the US four engine transports such as the C-54 appear? Yes

Some of the patrol planes such as Ventura/Harpoon series aren't terribly useful now, even though with the addition of radar, early sonobuoys and MAD they should be much more effective than in stock. Has this been addressed? Yes

How a back of the envelope comparisson of the PB4Y and PB4Y-2? ????

Will we have the C-46? I don't have any references handy, but believe it was pretty common in the Pacific theater. Yes



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Post #: 1024
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/16/2009 3:45:50 PM   
W T Door

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 1/15/2009
Status: offline 		I was wondering how much of a difference there is, in game terms, between the PB4Y-1 (slightly modified B24D, already present in the stock game) and the PB4Y-2?

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Post #: 1025
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/16/2009 5:37:53 PM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline 		In addition to the following stats Thomas (brilliantly) often uses A/C of different series to help control the supply of those A/C in the game. So while two models might otherwise be identical aside from designation it benefits the pace of the game and realism to seperate the two so that the impact from production dleays, ramp ups, etc. may still be felt

PB4Y-1:
1 Top Turret, 1 Bottom Turret (both 2 x .50)
10 x 500lb internal
ASB Radar
Cruise Speed = 200
Max Speed = 303
Available 12-42
Max Range = 77 hex (3043 nm)
Norm Range = 20 Hex (792 nm)
Ext Combat RNG = 25 Hex (989 nm)
Max Alt = 32k'

PB4Y-2:
2 Top Turret (both 2 x .50)
8 x 500lb internal
ASG Radar
Cruise Speed = 158
Max Speed = 249
Available 7-44
Max Range = 64 hex (2522 nm)
Norm Range = 17 Hex (656 nm)
Ext Combat RNG = 21 Hex (820 nm)
Max Alt = 18.3k'

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Post #: 1026
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/16/2009 6:26:09 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Okay - why the large drop in performance for the newer model? Was the new radar that much heavier/more wind resistant?

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Post #: 1027
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/16/2009 6:57:08 PM   
W T Door

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 1/15/2009
Status: offline 		Probably the lack of supercharged engines and typically lower altitude flight profiles. The engines can't be run as lean at lower altitudes that search and ASW missions will tend to dictate and the Navy used the non-supercharged engines since they didn't feel that there would be any need for high altitude flight. This is probably also the reasoning behind replacing the ball turret with a radar, the radar would enhance the search capability of the plane while the lower altitude flight path would largely preclude attacks from below.
I'm pretty sure that the LOFAR buoys that they used back then were dropped from a pretty low altitude, too. Consequently ASW flights tended to be low altitude for this reason and to accomaodate MAD. I had a shipmate who had been an accoustic operator on S2s and trained in TBMs. The method they employed was to drop a bouy, an accoustic charge and a dye marker. Apparently this was the genisis of the "now, now, now" call when launching bouys today, it timed the sequence of the drops for all this stuff.

It will also be interesting to see how the blimps operate in AE.

Thanks for the info, that's what I was looking for, now to sweat out the release date.....

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 1028
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/16/2009 7:39:25 PM   
Cathartes

 

Posts: 2155
Joined: 1/5/2001
Status: offline
quote:

Okay - why the large drop in performance for the newer model? Was the new radar that much heavier/more wind resistant?


PB4Y-1 is essentially the 'navalized' version of the B-24D, a Liberator.

PB4Y-2 is the Privateer with the large, single tail fin.



< Message edited by Cathartes -- 1/16/2009 7:41:05 PM >

(in reply to W T Door)
Post #: 1029
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/16/2009 11:48:39 PM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: W T Door

Probably the lack of supercharged engines and typically lower altitude flight profiles. The engines can't be run as lean at lower altitudes that search and ASW missions will tend to dictate and the Navy used the non-supercharged engines since they didn't feel that there would be any need for high altitude flight. This is probably also the reasoning behind replacing the ball turret with a radar, the radar would enhance the search capability of the plane while the lower altitude flight path would largely preclude attacks from below.
I'm pretty sure that the LOFAR buoys that they used back then were dropped from a pretty low altitude, too. Consequently ASW flights tended to be low altitude for this reason and to accomaodate MAD. I had a shipmate who had been an accoustic operator on S2s and trained in TBMs. The method they employed was to drop a bouy, an accoustic charge and a dye marker. Apparently this was the genisis of the "now, now, now" call when launching bouys today, it timed the sequence of the drops for all this stuff.

It will also be interesting to see how the blimps operate in AE.

Thanks for the info, that's what I was looking for, now to sweat out the release date.....

This is a great explanation. Couldn't have said it better.

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Post #: 1030
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/17/2009 12:40:40 AM   
vettim89


Posts: 3615
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Toledo, Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf

In addition to the following stats Thomas (brilliantly) often uses A/C of different series to help control the supply of those A/C in the game. So while two models might otherwise be identical aside from designation it benefits the pace of the game and realism to seperate the two so that the impact from production dleays, ramp ups, etc. may still be felt

PB4Y-1:
1 Top Turret, 1 Bottom Turret (both 2 x .50)
10 x 500lb internal
ASB Radar
Cruise Speed = 200
Max Speed = 303
Available 12-42
Max Range = 77 hex (3043 nm)
Norm Range = 20 Hex (792 nm)
Ext Combat RNG = 25 Hex (989 nm)
Max Alt = 32k'

PB4Y-2:
2 Top Turret (both 2 x .50)
8 x 500lb internal
ASG Radar
Cruise Speed = 158
Max Speed = 249
Available 7-44
Max Range = 64 hex (2522 nm)
Norm Range = 17 Hex (656 nm)
Ext Combat RNG = 21 Hex (820 nm)
Max Alt = 18.3k'


You know I scratched my head when I saw those range figures at first. THen the lightbulb went off and I remembered: 40 nm hexes. DOH!

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Post #: 1031
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/17/2009 12:50:59 AM   
dwbradley

 

Posts: 197
Joined: 3/21/2004
Status: offline 		Here’s a thought for discussion. If it seems to have merit then I would hope it might be grist for a future patch.

It has always struck me that when replacing pilots for aircraft that carry more than one crew member the pilot pool ought to be debited by more than one.

A possible scheme for this would be:

Single-engine a/c: debit pool by one
Two-engine a/c: debit pool by 2
Four-engine a/c: debit pool by 3

This would reflect the loss of co-pilots and other crew. It would make the WITP player just a little more careful in the care and feeding of his larger and more valuable aircraft. Initial pool sizes and replacement rates could be increased to compensate so that “normal” losses would decrease the pools at about the same proportional rate. Rash behavior, such as sending large unescorted bomber raids, would thus reflect increased risk of personnel losses. This is something a commander should have to assess, whether real-life or virtual.

Dave Bradley

(in reply to vettim89)
Post #: 1032
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/17/2009 6:52:24 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline 		Dave, you'd have to similarly increase the pilot pool, which can easily be done (at least in WITP)

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Post #: 1033
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/18/2009 6:01:56 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		Will there be a "stand down" option for air units set to night operations? 

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Brad

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Post #: 1034
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/21/2009 6:54:12 PM   
Barb


Posts: 2503
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline 		Someone pointed out that allied (US especially) air units will be in size of squadrons. What will the names be like?
As in WITP aka: 90th BS
or with name of their Group aka: 90th BS / 3rd BG

Could make identification much easier - especially when each Group = 4 squadrons...

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Post #: 1035
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/21/2009 6:56:06 PM   
Cathartes

 

Posts: 2155
Joined: 1/5/2001
Status: offline
quote:

Someone pointed out that allied (US especially) air units will be in size of squadrons. What will the names be like?
As in WITP aka: 90th BS
or with name of their Group aka: 90th BS / 3rd BG


Yes.

(in reply to Barb)
Post #: 1036
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/21/2009 7:00:12 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cathartes

quote:

Someone pointed out that allied (US especially) air units will be in size of squadrons. What will the names be like?
As in WITP aka: 90th BS
or with name of their Group aka: 90th BS / 3rd BG


Yes.


Which?

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Post #: 1037
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/21/2009 7:25:38 PM   
Barb


Posts: 2503
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline 		Do you want the red one or the blue one?
The One please!


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Post #: 1038
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/21/2009 7:46:01 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline 		The bomb group is part of the name. Assuming it actually has one.

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Post #: 1039
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/21/2009 9:14:37 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		As long as it isn't 3rd BG/A, I'm happy... I want the correct squadron numbers.

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fair winds,
Brad

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Post #: 1040
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/21/2009 9:30:26 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Will that apply to the Japanese also?

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Created by the amazing Dixie

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Post #: 1041
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/21/2009 10:53:53 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Will that apply to the Japanese also?


Yes. They will be happy also.

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Post #: 1042
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/22/2009 11:34:54 PM   
Cathartes

 

Posts: 2155
Joined: 1/5/2001
Status: offline 		One example: 346thBG/461stBS.  Most Allied air units are designated by squadron.

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Post #: 1043
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/23/2009 2:33:51 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		So, basically you're at least doubling the number of air units.  Is this factored into the maximum number of air units allowed on a base?

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Post #: 1044
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/23/2009 3:23:28 PM   
foliveti


Posts: 371
Joined: 9/12/2002
From: Buffalo, NY
Status: offline 		I did not realize there was a limit on air units. I just thought the limits applied to number of aircraft.

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Post #: 1045
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/23/2009 4:00:01 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

So, basically you're at least doubling the number of air units.  Is this factored into the maximum number of air units allowed on a base?


It was previously mentioned (2 or 3 weeks ago) that there is a hard limit. This was discovered to the obvious chagrin of the AE team member who discovered and posted it. I asked if the limit would be removed before release and the question has yet to be answered.

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 1046
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/23/2009 4:13:33 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		I didn't realize that the limit may be removed.  Question about the limit.  What is it based on?  I recall some discussion about it earlier but can't remember.  Is it based on AF size?  Is it dependent on the particular airbase?

Thanks for the response.

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Post #: 1047
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/23/2009 4:40:56 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline 		Yes there is now a limit on numbers of air units at a base also. I dont understand the formula or the logic behind it either. I had 61 planes in 21 squadrons at a level 4 airfield (Chungking - I was trying to get all my air units in 1 place so I could sort them out) and it was over loaded.

Dont ask me why

Edit: One of them guys with the Matrix logo in his avatar suggested it had something to do with the numbers of Majors and light Colonels in the O club (Im guessing he didnt understand it either).

< Message edited by Yamato hugger -- 1/23/2009 4:42:26 PM >

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Post #: 1048
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/23/2009 4:58:30 PM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Yes there is now a limit on numbers of air units at a base also. I dont understand the formula or the logic behind it either. I had 61 planes in 21 squadrons at a level 4 airfield (Chungking - I was trying to get all my air units in 1 place so I could sort them out) and it was over loaded.

Dont ask me why

Edit: One of them guys with the Matrix logo in his avatar suggested it had something to do with the numbers of Majors and light Colonels in the O club (Im guessing he didnt understand it either).


Think about the civil war for airbase resources. Every squadron needs its own facilities.

_____________________________

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"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to Yamato hugger)
Post #: 1049
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 1/23/2009 5:30:25 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Yes there is now a limit on numbers of air units at a base also. I dont understand the formula or the logic behind it either. I had 61 planes in 21 squadrons at a level 4 airfield (Chungking - I was trying to get all my air units in 1 place so I could sort them out) and it was over loaded.

Dont ask me why

Edit: One of them guys with the Matrix logo in his avatar suggested it had something to do with the numbers of Majors and light Colonels in the O club (Im guessing he didnt understand it either).


Thanks.

_____________________________


Created by the amazing Dixie

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Post #: 1050
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