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More G4m's. - 1/25/2009 4:25:07 AM   
m10bob


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RE: More G4m's. - 1/25/2009 4:26:26 AM   
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RE: More G4m's. - 1/25/2009 4:27:37 AM   
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RE: More G4m's. - 1/25/2009 4:47:48 AM   
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RE: More G4m's. - 1/25/2009 4:49:35 AM   
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RE: More G4m's. - 1/25/2009 5:01:58 AM   
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RE: More G4m's. - 1/25/2009 5:03:15 AM   
m10bob


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RE: More G4m's. - 1/25/2009 5:11:56 AM   
Mark VII


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RE: More G4m's. - 1/25/2009 5:16:28 AM   
rjopel

 

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Status: offline 		I like 4, 5, and 8.

The others also look nice.

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RE: More G4m's. - 1/25/2009 5:21:33 AM   
Mark VII


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Status: offline 		The nicest shot is #7, is that real or from a game?

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RE: More G4m's. - 1/25/2009 5:26:27 AM   
Mark VII


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And since I played as the Japs once, my laser guided Betty's did do well.




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RE: More G4m's. - 1/25/2009 6:33:32 AM   
Xavier5733


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Status: offline 		The last one is unbelievable.

As US player, I prefer the No 4 and 8


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RE: More G4m's. - 1/25/2009 7:38:23 AM   
rjopel

 

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Status: offline 		I think that 4 and 8 are the same plane. 

Notice the same popped open top hatch.

They are both missing the tail section.

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RE: More G4m's. - 1/25/2009 8:07:43 AM   
Raver508

 

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Status: offline 		Hell, look how low they are flying in 9!

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RE: More G4m's. - 1/25/2009 9:20:05 AM   
bbbf

 

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Status: offline 		Yep, no doubting these pilots didn't lack for guts.

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RE: More G4m's. - 1/25/2009 10:04:47 AM   
Long Lance


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Status: offline 		What level are they flying? I guess 5, perhaps 10 m maximum (16-33 ft.)?
Is this a fake? It looks real, but it's hardly believable...

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RE: More G4m's. - 1/25/2009 10:07:34 AM   
Apollo11


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Long Lance

What level are they flying? I guess 5, perhaps 10 m maximum (16-33 ft.)?
Is this a fake? It looks real, but it's hardly believable...


That picture is not a fake... they really did fly that low...




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RE: More G4m's. - 1/25/2009 12:14:35 PM   
Tomo


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I have ever read that center higher G4M is decoy to protect right and left lower G4Ms from aamg.
I'm not sure if it's true or not though.


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RE: More G4m's. - 1/25/2009 12:16:31 PM   
lolz

 

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Status: offline 		awesome! thanks for sharing.

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RE: More G4m's. - 1/25/2009 12:19:12 PM   
cantona2


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Status: offline 		That is one of the coolest images in these forums!

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RE: More G4m's. - 1/25/2009 12:36:01 PM   
Chris21wen

 

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Status: offline 		That's low, below the flak but subject to torpedo attack.

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RE: More G4m's. - 1/25/2009 1:33:09 PM   
Ambassador

 

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Status: offline 		Assuming a length of 20m for the Betty, the lower-right plane would not be higher than 5-6m above the water... and maybe as low as 4m depending on the relative angle.  It'd just take a little wave to transform it in a submarine aircraft.

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RE: More G4m's. - 1/25/2009 2:14:05 PM   
wwengr


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Status: offline 		The wingspan of the Betty is 25 meters and the length is 20 m, so by some simple visual metrics, you can conclude that the aircraft are flying in "Ground Effect". This occurs when the aircraft is less than a Wing Span from the surface. Look at the water and it is clear that the air is near calm. The surface is smooth.

In ground effect, the aircraft gets additional lift as the wingtip vortices are disrupted, making the wing more effective. As a pilot, I can assure you that over a level surface, it is quite easy to fly in ground effect without hitting the ground. Typically, if the aircraft is not trimmed well, the flying response in ground effect is to rise away from the surface, if the pilot were to stop control inputs. At torpedo release, the aircraft becomes lighter, so it will tend to rise.

It may seem counter-intuitive, but these aircraft are flying fairly clean at high speed. It would take deliberate control inputs to get the aircraft to hit the surface (either that or a serious compromise to the integrity of the wings or airframe). All of the pilot's concentration has to be spent keeping the aircraft from rising.

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RE: More G4m's. - 1/25/2009 4:39:44 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wwengr

The wingspan of the Betty is 25 meters and the length is 20 m, so by some simple visual metrics, you can conclude that the aircraft are flying in "Ground Effect". This occurs when the aircraft is less than a Wing Span from the surface. Look at the water and it is clear that the air is near calm. The surface is smooth.

In ground effect, the aircraft gets additional lift as the wingtip vortices are disrupted, making the wing more effective. As a pilot, I can assure you that over a level surface, it is quite easy to fly in ground effect without hitting the ground. Typically, if the aircraft is not trimmed well, the flying response in ground effect is to rise away from the surface, if the pilot were to stop control inputs. At torpedo release, the aircraft becomes lighter, so it will tend to rise.

It may seem counter-intuitive, but these aircraft are flying fairly clean at high speed. It would take deliberate control inputs to get the aircraft to hit the surface (either that or a serious compromise to the integrity of the wings or airframe). All of the pilot's concentration has to be spent keeping the aircraft from rising.


Yes..there are several amazing things about that pic. The flak bursts are right down on the deck. Some of the rounds are even going into the water. Plus there had to be a ship in that position to take the pic (unless it was taken from another bomber)

I don't even think they could release the torp safely at that altitude. The splash would damage the aircraft, I think.

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RE: More G4m's. - 1/25/2009 4:40:55 PM   
wwengr


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Status: offline 		I would be concerned that the torp would skip back up into the airplane.

< Message edited by wwengr -- 1/25/2009 4:41:04 PM >

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RE: More G4m's. - 1/25/2009 4:50:48 PM   
wwengr


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Status: offline 		I suspect that the Pic is taken from another aircraft. From the camera point of view, the Betty's are well below the horizon. Look at the lead Betty. The distant Destroyer is shorter than the aircraft and higher than the aircraft (in perspective). Figure the aircraft is 20 m length, the destroyer is 95 m. A little trigonometry supported by numerous unsupportable assumptions and I am guessing that the camera is about 30 to 50 meters in above the surface.

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RE: More G4m's. - 1/25/2009 5:07:01 PM   
Grotius


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Status: offline 		Those are amazing photos. Thanks for posting them.

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RE: More G4m's. - 1/25/2009 10:24:15 PM   
1275psi

 

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Status: offline 		remember reading about this some time ago on the hyperwar web site-photo taken from ship
result of attack -i think i remember only 1 transport hit - the bettie may have crashed into it? -anyway I do remember that all but one of those planes were shot down.

Wish i could be more precise, sorry

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RE: More G4m's. - 1/26/2009 1:50:24 AM   
Local Yokel


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Status: offline 		#9 shows aircraft of the 4th or Misawa Ku.  One a/c crashed into AP-13 George F. Elliott (sp?).  For the expenditure of most of the planes in the strike (?5 out of 17 returned), the Rikkos secured just one torpedo hit on DD Jervis, which was sunk later whilst proceeding independently from Guadalcanal to a base with better repair facilities (?Espiritu Santo).

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RE: More G4m's. - 1/26/2009 8:40:33 PM   
Dili

 

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quote:

This interrogation is concerned with the operations of the Japanese naval land-based aircraft during the occupation of British MALAYA. Captain SONOKAWA was commanding officer of the Genzan Air Group and has furnished a detailed and interesting account of the sinking of HMS REPULSE and HMS PRINCE OF WALES.


http://j-aircraft.com/research/interrogation_of_captain_sonokaw.htm

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