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Which one to buy? - 12/24/2008 3:10:40 PM

TerryVD

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Years ago, I owned both of these fine titles. Here it is Christmas eve and my wife said that I could picked one of these, The commanders version, or Harpoon 3. Which one would anyone of you recommend if you could only get one for now, and hopefully be able to play on Christmas day, after Church of course.

Terry

Post #: 1

RE: Which one to buy? - 12/24/2008 4:21:26 PM

TonyE

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I'll give the apolitical answer which probably is my honest answer.

If you enjoyed H2/3 more, then buy H3ANW

If you enjoyed HC 97, Gold, etc. more, then buy HCE (Commader's Edition)

Both games are supported and continue to be developed and continue to have databases and scenarios written for them (community involvement).

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Sincerely,
Tony Eischens
Harpoon (HC, HCE, HUCE, Classic) programmer
HarpGamer.com Co-Owner

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Post #: 2

RE: Which one to buy? - 12/24/2008 5:02:22 PM

TerryVD

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It seems that the number of scenarios are greater for commander.� Also, from looking at the game description, commander specifically states vista compatible.� I know a lot of games still play on vista, but some don't.� I have uncommon valor and though it might be a video card issue, I have been frustrated that that one won't play.� Sigh....� Also, commander is a few bucks cheaper.

Terry

< Message edited by TerryVD -- 12/24/2008 5:03:12 PM >

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RE: Which one to buy? - 12/24/2008 5:14:58 PM

Terl

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From: Charleston, WV
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There is a demo for ANW version. I'd give that a go. It got me to buy ANW.... just an idea.

As for the Vista thing, sometimes it is an easy fix like right click and set compatibility mode or even just right click "run as administrator".

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Post #: 4

Harpoon - 12/24/2008 5:23:27 PM

hermanhum

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If you have played both versions (ANW and HCE) before, then you should have little problem stepping back into the picture with either one of them and begin playing 20 mins after downloading and installing them.

Both have demos available:
http://www.computerharpoon.com/public/Harpoon_3_Gouge_Demo_394.exe
http://www.falconslanding.org/HCEDemo-2008.066.zip

If MP play is important to you, then only ANW offers it at this time. We could have offered you a test MP demo session, but not this close to Xmas.

Welcome (back) aboard, shipmate, (to whichever version you choose).

[Edit] Regarding Vista, I wouldn't worry about either version working with it. Lots of folks are reporting use with Vista and no problems once it is set up satisfactorily.

< Message edited by hermanhum -- 12/24/2008 5:24:59 PM >

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Post #: 5

RE: Harpoon - 12/24/2008 6:33:55 PM

mack2

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isn't ANW filled with bugs and glitches?

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RE: Harpoon - 12/24/2008 6:57:05 PM

TonyE

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From: MN, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mack2

isn't ANW filled with bugs and glitches?

Hehe, what isn't. Herman's list of HC bugs is hundreds long and I have a years old document with at least 50 more. ANW has certainly taken a lot of bad press on that front and I'll grudgingly suggest ANW has had more serious issues than HC but both games work and will provide endless entertainment if naval warfare is your thing. fwiw ANW is on a better path now than it had been before the 3.9 series. Over time both games will have their scary moments, but both will provide lots of entertainment as well.

_____________________________

Sincerely,
Tony Eischens
Harpoon (HC, HCE, HUCE, Classic) programmer
HarpGamer.com Co-Owner

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Post #: 7

Harpoon - 12/25/2008 5:15:37 AM

hermanhum

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Don't trust anyone else's opinion. Check out the lists for yourself and make your own decision on whether or not the state of the game is acceptable for you:

ANW
http://www.harplonkhq.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=47#p47

HCE
http://www.harplonkhq.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=45#p45

When dealing with Harpoon, always check out the facts for yourself.

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Post #: 8

RE: Which one to buy? - 12/25/2008 7:54:43 PM

Vincenzo_Beretta

Posts: 440
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From: Milan, Italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TonyE

I'll give the apolitical answer which probably is my honest answer.

If you enjoyed H2/3 more, then buy H3ANW

If you enjoyed HC 97, Gold, etc. more, then buy HCE (Commader's Edition)

I'll give the un-apolitical answer: if you enjoy enjoyement, buy HCE.

ANW has a lot of potential, but it does seem unable to really fulfill it. Too many bugs, too little fixes.

HCE does fulfill everything it promises. It is slightly simpler, and some issues (supplies, aircraft ready times...) are more abstracted. But this allows, among other things, for bigger scenarios (with some approaching the monster-size of some of the old "Fleet Series" by Victory Games) without losing the manegeability.

I own both. I'm actually playing HCE right now (I came to the forum to see if there were any news). I do not remember when it the last time I fired up ANW. Sad but true.

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Post #: 9

RE: Which one to buy? - 1/12/2009 8:07:32 PM

drrowley

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ANW kept crashing on my vista computer. what about HCE?

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Post #: 10

Problem - 1/12/2009 8:12:55 PM

hermanhum

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Can you elaborate on the crash? Were you running the ANW game or just the demo? It might something simple to fix.

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RE: Which one to buy? - 1/12/2009 11:51:33 PM

TonyE

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daver

ANW kept crashing on my vista computer. what about HCE?

ANW doesn't keep crashing on Vista here, nor does HCE. fwiw I code it on Vista and do 90% of my testing of HCE on Vista.

_____________________________

Sincerely,
Tony Eischens
Harpoon (HC, HCE, HUCE, Classic) programmer
HarpGamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to drrowley)

Post #: 12

RE: Which one to buy? - 1/13/2009 6:51:31 PM

drrowley

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hh/te it has been awhile since i tried it. i tried two scenerio's and both of them, after around 10min game time, locked up, couldn't get anything to work/respond in the game. vista finally responded with 'no reponse program' and ended it. as i recall, my workstation, with xp, did it to me too, finally gave up and removed ANW from both computers. if you want me to try it again, i can.

yesterday, download HCE and i am playing it now. two scenerio's later, no hic-cups.
thanks

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Post #: 13

Problem - 1/13/2009 8:49:00 PM

hermanhum

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daver

hh/te it has been awhile since i tried it. i tried two scenerio's and both of them, after around 10min game time, locked up, couldn't get anything to work/respond in the game. vista finally responded with 'no reponse program' and ended it. as i recall, my workstation, with xp, did it to me too, finally gave up and removed ANW from both computers. if you want me to try it again, i can.

What exactly are you trying with ANW? The Game or the demo? What version of game/demo are you running? Have you updated to the latest patch?

I have run ANW on XP home and Pro and did not seem to encounter the problem you describe.

You might want to report your problem to the ANW forum instead of the HCE forum:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp?forumid=301

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Post #: 14

RE: Problem - 1/14/2009 5:27:51 PM

drrowley

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ok ok.. it is the game, but it was about a year ago. i'll reinstall/updates and try it again.

playing hce(demo) with no problems and plan to buy it.

couple questions: in prior harpoons, in formation, if a mission is cancled, units use to revert to group window, where one could take control of it. can that still be done?
and is there a way to do the reverse, i.e. can a group be moved to a formation mission?

guikusni 5.0: from the us naval group, there is a max range circle, which i assumed were tomahawks, but no one has any. sub group with 688s, also none. what gives?

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Post #: 15

Problem - 1/14/2009 5:42:13 PM

hermanhum

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daver

couple questions: in prior harpoons, in formation, if a mission is cancled, units use to revert to group window, where one could take control of it. can that still be done?
and is there a way to do the reverse, i.e. can a group be moved to a formation mission?

I do not fully understand your question, but I do not believe that the game play has changed that much at all (that would probably be a very significant change, if it occurred.)

A separate group can me moved to a formation mission by first combining it with a group with the F8 Join command and then setting it as a formation patrol.

quote:

ORIGINAL: daver

guikusni 5.0: from the us naval group, there is a max range circle, which i assumed were tomahawks, but no one has any. sub group with 688s, also none. what gives?

The Convoy group has TASMs on the BB. The sub group doesn't seem to have any; only Harpoons.

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Post #: 16

RE: Problem - 1/14/2009 6:47:40 PM

drrowley

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twice i have tried to cut lose fighters that were in a formation AAW mission. previous games, the units would pop onto the group window and could take control. now, they don't and when i go to the units window and click on them, they have been ordered to land. i use to do this all the time in previous games, so i know it use to work.

i'll try the F8.

now i found something else different. before when i would loiter an asw platform, it would drop a sono bouy, no longer. seems one of the rule books (amw/hce), said it still should happen, not seeing it.
did this alot also in prevous games, when platform ran out of torps.

should i start problem post, i accually was trying 'also' to decide if to buy hce, but decided to anyway.

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Post #: 17

Problem - 1/15/2009 12:55:28 AM

hermanhum

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daver

twice i have tried to cut lose fighters that were in a formation AAW mission. previous games, the units would pop onto the group window and could take control. now, they don't and when i go to the units window and click on them, they have been ordered to land. i use to do this all the time in previous games, so i know it use to work.

I am using the Air Intercept option and finding no problem with it. Just to ensure that we are doing the same thing, I:

1) Turned on the Auto-Formation Patrol option before starting the scenario
2) Turned on the Air Intercept option from the Game Option menu (Ctrl+M)
3) When enemy helos were detected, I clicked on them and then hit F1
4) Aircraft Intercept menu appeared with all aircraft within range of the helos
5) Selected a couple of Harrier flights and ordered them to intercept with the Intercept button on the menu
6) Aircraft detached from SAG and started moving towards helo contact

I cannot replicate the problem you describe. Can you provide more detail? I think that going through every little step is going to be needed. It might be a game setting problem, too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: daver

now i found something else different. before when i would loiter an asw platform, it would drop a sono bouy, no longer. seems one of the rule books (amw/hce), said it still should happen, not seeing it.

I have also noticed this difference. I think that the change is that the helos must now be at VLow altitude to automatically drop a sonobuoy. When the plane stops moving, it is only at Low altitude, so it doesn't deploy a sonobuoy. If you go to VLow, you will see it drop automatically.

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Post #: 18

Problem - 1/15/2009 2:00:08 AM

hermanhum

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I think that the altitude discrepancy between the deployment altitude and operational altitude is a big problem so I opened up a report on the Bug Tracker:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1987744&mpage=1&#2005433

quote:

Defect Name: Dipping Sonar not activating
Build: HCE 2008.044
Repeatable: Y
Operating System: XP
DB used: HCDB-081124
Scenario used: Dipping Sonar not activating.SCm
Long Description: Dipping Sonar not activating while prosecuting sub contact because the helo under AI control operates at Low altitude and not VLow altitude.

Sequence to reproduce:
1. Run Dipping Sonar not activating.SCm from Red side with Show All and Active Blue sonar ring activated
2. 4x SeaKing helos will launch from base to prosecute your Alfa sub
3. They will close and then drop a torp
4. At no time will the helo activate its dipping sonar
5. Active Sonar range ring will appear, but it will be false. (This is bug is already reported.)
6. Select helo Unit in Unit Window and hit F9 to see that Active sonar is not even an option available to the helo.
7. This change is due to the new HCE behaviour requiring helos to only deploy dipping sonar at VLow Altitude. In previous HC versions, dipping sonar and sonobuoys deployed when the helo stopped at Low altitude.
8. Not only is the dipping sonar not deploying, sonobuoys are not being dropped, either.
9. If the VLow requirement is to be maintained, then all ASW helo operations should be moved to that altitude by default.

Expected behaviour: Helos prosecuting targets or on patrol should deploy dipping sonar
Observed behaviour: Only helos under manual control can be ordered to VLow to activate dipping sonar

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Post #: 19

RE: Problem - 1/15/2009 6:23:44 AM

TonyE

Posts: 1551
Joined: 5/23/2006
From: MN, USA
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I will not speak poorly about the programmer who came before me, I will not speak poorly about the programmer who came before me, I will not...

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Sincerely,
Tony Eischens
Harpoon (HC, HCE, HUCE, Classic) programmer
HarpGamer.com Co-Owner

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Post #: 20

Problem - 1/15/2009 6:44:08 AM

hermanhum

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Should I be quoting the anti-panty crusader?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Britney Spears

Oops, I did it again...

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Post #: 21

RE: Problem - 1/15/2009 7:11:50 PM

drrowley

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tried re-installing anw, worse than before. starting anw thread.

vlow for dropping sonos'..... actually, that sounds familier....

the formation/groups thingie... i take, say a p3, and manually set up an asw mission in the formation editor. later on, for what ever reason, i decide i want to do something else with him. i go into the formation editor and delete said p3's asw mission. now in older harpoons, the p3 would appear in the group window with loiter command on and i could do what ever i wanted with him. now, he is order to land.

then there is the reverse (and older harpoons didn't do this either, a wish it did). say i had a p3 that i had instructed to manually attack a sub. now the sub is sunk. even if the p3 didn't have any torps left, it surely would have some bouy's left. it would be nice to re-group the p3 with the airbase and then setup an asw mission to continue to prosecute the area, until another full p3 was ready. better, dispatch some fighters, but the target was destroyed, i'd like to setup an aaw mission rather than land them and they set in the refueling que.

another anomaly: ordered a nimrod to attack a sub after it had sunk another. as it was moving to the other sub, notification popped up that another sub had been found by a sonobouy (i'm sure thats what it said). looking at the unit screen, that nimrod was setting almost on top of the sub and there were no bouys around (mad detection?)... and when i clicked on intercept, the nimrod wasn't listed. so i manually ordered the nimrod to attack that sub. but it's course was still to the other sub. i manually attack the new sub again.
samething. i manually set the course back to the new contact and after several seconds i again order manual attack. this time it took. i have seen this ignore a 'new' attack before, just don't remember the particulars.

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Post #: 22

Problem - 1/15/2009 7:44:23 PM

hermanhum

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daver

the formation/groups thingie... i take, say a p3, and manually set up an asw mission in the formation editor. later on, for what ever reason, i decide i want to do something else with him. i go into the formation editor and delete said p3's asw mission. now in older harpoons, the p3 would appear in the group window with loiter command on and i could do what ever i wanted with him. now, he is order to land.

I don't remember it the way you do. As far as I remember, when I cancelled a Formation patrol via the Formation Editor, it went back to base to land and did not break out of the formation and into its own group as you describe.

If I wanted to break the unit out of the formation and cancel the Formation patrol at the same time, I used the "Divide Group" command. I remember this quite distinctly because I considered it a real PiTA to locate the unit I wanted to detach. For example, if I had detach a helo from the formation and there were 8 identical helos flying, I often detached the 'wrong' one.

I hope that my memory is not failing me on this one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: daver

another anomaly: ordered a nimrod to attack a sub after it had sunk another. as it was moving to the other sub, notification popped up that another sub had been found by a sonobouy (i'm sure thats what it said). looking at the unit screen, that nimrod was setting almost on top of the sub and there were no bouys around (mad detection?)... and when i clicked on intercept, the nimrod wasn't listed. so i manually ordered the nimrod to attack that sub. but it's course was still to the other sub. i manually attack the new sub again.
samething. i manually set the course back to the new contact and after several seconds i again order manual attack. this time it took. i have seen this ignore a 'new' attack before, just don't remember the particulars.

There are many, many possible explanations for this situation and there is insufficient detail in the description to be certain.

- The detection by non-existent sonobuoy might very well be true. The range of the buoys is not strictly limited to the little square you see on the Unit window.

- If a unit is detected by MAD, I am pretty sure that I have seen it reported as such in both the text message window and the Staff Assistant window

quote:

Sir, we have detected 1 new contact:

Sub contact
from AB00 SH-60B Seahawk
Method: MAD

- Was the location of the second submarine in a large uncertainty zone? Could it have been closer to another buoy a long ways away?

- Nimrod may not have been listed as available to attack the second sub because it was already assigned to an intercept mission

- This might be a bug already reported:

quote:

Out of range message missing

A saved game showing the problem would definitely be helpful in this case

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Post #: 23

RE: Problem - 1/15/2009 8:47:01 PM

drrowley

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your description of 'divide group', did that to before, with same anxiety.... but, still remember units popping on to the group window. but as you say, that was a looong time ago..

on the nimrod, there was alot happening at that time. there were bouys tens of miles away. at first i was confused because i couldn't see the contact and it turned out that the nimrod was setting right on top of the contact (why i thought mad). i was just irked that i couldn't get the nimrod to switch targets (perticularly sense it was setting right on top of it). it sound like that once an attack is manually ordered, groups will ignore all other attack orders and not be listed in intercepts