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War In Russia linked campaign - 10/16/2000 8:32:00 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		I mentioned this in an earlier post, but wouldn't it be great if all of the eastern fornt scenarios could be linked into a grand Eastern front campaign? There could be a few added scenarios, but the present inventory of scenarios could add up to a great campaign.

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- 10/16/2000 10:15:00 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		Indeed. My long term goal and project, still a long way off is a 41-45 campaign from either the German or Russian side. It will take a while, a lot of scenarios and a lot of work. But it has tremendous possibilities. One day....Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 2
- 10/16/2000 7:59:00 PM   
Skorpion

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 10/4/2000
Status: offline 		I too am of the same hope. Brent noted on a past thread that a good unit basis would be Grossdeutschland (three volume history set plus a history on the Panzerregiment GD are available) because they were there from Barbarossa on. Another good one would be 3-SS Totenkopf for the same reason. A mini-campaign based on the Demyansk Kessel could be very interesting! Plus Kharkov, Kursk, the Mius defense, etc....

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Post #: 3
- 10/16/2000 9:31:00 PM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline 		I'm currently working on a campaign based on division Das Reich's battles in the east. I'm using Otto Weidinger's books on the division, and I'm trying to get it as historically accurate as possible. Right now I'm having 8 battles planned for Operation Barbarossa, 12 for Operation Typhoon, and 15 for the defensive operations outside Moscow during the russian counteroffensive. I havent decided yet wether to make it completely historical or if it should be flexible to the players results. My idea is this: If for example a river crossing fails, I think its a good idea to be forced to play the exact same map again, but this time with more soviet fortifications and units. The river still have to be crossed, but now the soviets have had more time to prepare the defence. If the result is a draw, the player is forced to play the exact same map again, but this time with units allowed to set up on the other side of the river, and defend the bridghead against a counterattack (it took too much time so the soviets managed to organioze a counterattack). If it was a decisive victory, the player is allowed to proceed to the next battles. Is this a good or bad idea? Any opinions are welcome. ------------------ Panzerjaeger Hortlund -=Fear is only a state of mind=-

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The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

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Post #: 4
- 10/17/2000 12:02:00 AM   
Iron Cross


Posts: 46
Joined: 9/14/2000
From: Friendswood, Texas, USA
Status: offline 		Hortlund: Sounds like an excellent idea!!! Let me know if I can help in any way, such as OOB, campaign branching or battle write-ups etc... I wrote my Master's Thesis on the German conduct of the war in the east, so let me know if I can help in any way. Reply to usmc0202@mindspring.com Major Davenport(AKA Iron Cross) Wenn Alles Bruders Es Schweigen

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Col David A. Davenport (USMCR)
MSSI - 0202/0210
JFCOM - JTC (Intel/Counter-Intel)

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Post #: 5
- 10/17/2000 8:29:00 AM   
Ismael

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 9/12/2000
From: co
Status: offline 		i would be very, very inrterested in a 41-45 W.A.R. campaign. definitely! YES!!!!!!!!! one thought: most of the campaign scenarios ive played are either sit up on hills protecting one side of the board shotting at assaulting masses, or have to take them hills so sneak around the mines and hitem from the back. to make the game more interesting, it would be good if the battles were all different, this can be done by various means: - set up only part of the oob, the rest are involved in :"off map activities". this is my favorite, allowing for some interesting small-unit actions that affect the campaign by influencing the force pool - set up breakout scenarios: where one side is completely surrounded and must break out with/wothout outside help - set up delay scenarios where the defending side only gets 20% or so of their force to set up, the rest trickle in -set up defend scenarios where part of the defending force must be withdrawn during the battle - set up advance scenarios where a support force enters the map from a different edge as the main force - set up assault scenarios where the attacker is ordered to withdraw during the engagement

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- 10/17/2000 8:53:00 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		These are very good ideas for varying the battles in campaigns. But I would have to differ with you on the point that most campaigns follow only one format. From what you say here, Ismael, I don't think you've played the campaigns that we have produced for SPWAW. True, there are some defend hills scenarios. There have to be. They are historical events. But let's see....Heroes of the Motherland 1. Battle One...Three hills defended and the need for a Russian counterattack. 2.Battle Two...Soviets defending a town, while other Russian forces rush to the rescue of the defenders. 3. Battle Three...Soviets on the attack against German defenders on a hill with reinfoecements coming to their aid. 4. Battle Four...Meetinng Engagement 5. Battle Five ...Another meeting engagement 6. Battle Six... German attack against Soviet set defenses 7. Battle Seven ...German attack, Soviets protecting a River crossing area 8. Battle Eight ...Soviet Raid on German Munitions dump and rail yard. Attacker must withdraw after raid. 9. Battle Nine ...Meeting Engagement 10. Battle Ten ...Meeting Engagement both entereing Ruza at the same time from either end. 11. Battle Eleven ...Soviet defense and counterattack at small town with rail yard. 12. Battle Twelve ...Defense of outskirts of Moscow 13. Battle Thirteen ...Soviet counterattack against same location of battle eleven to retake the ground lost there, mostly open ground And Preparing the Way has beach evacuations, Chasing retreating enemy units and a number of other different situations as you play. And especially Utah to the Rhine has all or nearly all of the possiblities you've mentioned in your list. But I agree with your general thesis and we try to do our campaigns just that way. Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games [This message has been edited by Wild Bill (edited October 16, 2000).]

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

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Post #: 7
- 10/17/2000 8:02:00 PM   
Ismael

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 9/12/2000
From: co
Status: offline 		well, wild bill, i guess i stand corrected. the only campaign i have played (besides the campaign generator) in 4.3b is the ww2 campaign, so i guess ive been missing out. the ones you describe sound intriguing and i will check them out. i have not checked them out yet because i like playing the germans, and these campaigns are for the us and russia. i will check them out though. thanks

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Post #: 8
- 10/17/2000 8:05:00 PM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		Okay..I guess we'll have to do one on the Germans. Any suggestions, my friend. What kind of campaign would you like to see? Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 9
- 10/17/2000 8:12:00 PM   
Leibstandarte

 

Posts: 122
Joined: 6/19/2000
From: Austin, TX USA
Status: offline 		As far as I'm concerned Wild Bill any campaign, playing any nation from you is a winner. Utah to the Rhine is a masterpiece. I can't say enough about that one. ------------------ Cavalry Trooper (8th US) and Grandson of a Leibstandarte Tanker.

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Cavalry Trooper (8th US) and Grandson of a Leibstandarte Tanker.

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Post #: 10
- 10/17/2000 8:48:00 PM   
Ismael

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 9/12/2000
From: co
Status: offline 		hearing so much about utah, i must play it. now im playing a campaignthat silensurfer sent me. i like it so far but im still in the first battle. what i like is that the force size is relatively small. id be very interested in any german campaign: DAK to el alamein campaign - from the initial surprise attacks with armored cars and italian auxiliaries taking the unprepared british by surprice through the crazy mixed up gazala battles through tobruk and persuit into egypt. DAK retreats campaign - delaying actions after el alamein, delay delay delay all the way back to gather strength and counterattack the americans while holding the brits and scurry on out of there crete - what can i say? norway - infantry, junkers, and jumping off planes to attack airstrips, dont forget the infamous bus attack up the highway and the british, superior but with cc problems moscow - reward the germans for taking the objectives early, maintaining momentum, try to capture the feel of the excellent operational wargame, pzg guderian, where the germans are incentiviced to penetrate with armor and hold, waiting for the infantry german cavalry in russia - a campaign where the german force is a cavalry unit responsible for the flanks of a german core throughout the war, "every day we moved forward, forward, forward, more each day, more than we thought possible...until moscow, then every day was back, back, back. but we greatly feared the cossacks" (a quote from a ww2 austrian cavalryman i met once). the unit will have cavalry and horse artillery and perhaps artillery, infantry and armor support units. allready mentioned cmpaigns such as spain, sealion and armor combat in russia also sound good.

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Post #: 11
- 10/17/2000 10:31:00 PM   
David F. Wall

 

Posts: 158
Joined: 5/25/2000
From: Waltham, MA, USA
Status: offline 		One of the expansion disks for the original Steel Panthers had a very long German campaign on it that followed the career of Hans von Luck that ran pretty much the length of the war (at least that was what was advertised. I never finished it). Would it be worth attempting a conversion? Would such a thing be even possible? It seems to me Luck was a good choice because he was in the line pretty much the whole length of the war. At the very least, it woould be a good reference for the scope of such an undertaking. DFW

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- 10/17/2000 11:54:00 PM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		A conversion would be more work than simply starting over, David. One could capture the main ideas of an earlier campaign and then do his own linked battles in SPWAW. That would be the easiest way. Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 13
- 10/18/2000 4:31:00 AM   
silentsurfer

 

Posts: 39
Joined: 10/2/2000
From: saint john, nb
Status: offline 		Hi Ismael, I read the note you sent WB, I agree that the points you mentioned are valuable to any campaign and I do think you should try out WB's campaigns, they are very good. I'm glad to hear you like the battles so far, I think you'll find the battles I sent you incorperate many of the ideas you sent to WB. The first battle is just a warm up to gain experience for the tougher battles. I think I told you the Poland ones were not quite ready buy give them a try anyway, I think they are pretty playable. I think you'll really like the last one. I havent even played it yet myself...I've got pnemonia(sp?) so I'm kinda down and out. Good luck and watch out from behind the trees Surfer

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what the ....

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Post #: 14
- 10/20/2000 1:20:00 AM   
El Che

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 10/18/2000
Status: offline 		Hi Will Bill! A little question. I read your description of Heroes of the Motherland campaign, and I think that they are not the same battles that I had fought. My first battle in the campaign was a delay defending some hills (decisive victory) Second Battle: Meeting engagement in Orel-Tula Crossroads (minor victory) Third battle: Another engagement in Orel-Tula (minor victory) Fourth battle: a river crossing defense in Guseinovo (decisive victory) Fifth battle: meeting engagement in Skirmanovo (this is like what you said about a Soviet Raid on German Munitions dump, except that there isn’t any ammo dump, but the text before the battle said that the Germans are using Skirmanovo as a base for further attacks. Another decisive victory any way...) And now I’m in the sixth battle: defending the Isra River... I didn’t see any “Soviets defending a town, while other Russian forces rush to the rescue of the defenders.” And I’m not sure that the battle of Skirmanovo was the raid on German ammo dump. Could be possible that the campaign automatically “pass over” some battles when you get a decisive victory? If this is the case I will let some Victory Objectives on German hands just in order to fight ALL the battles! ------------------ No Pasarán!!

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Hasta la victoria siempre!

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Post #: 15
- 10/20/2000 1:28:00 AM   
El Che

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 10/18/2000
Status: offline 		Campaigns are my favorites way to play, and eastern front is my favorite front, so a long campaign on eastern front from both German and Soviets from 1941 to 1945 sounds great. I vote for that! Can I add some more campaigns to Ismael’s list? From the German side: 1- Barbarosa. 2- Kursk 3- Wacht am Rhein (an scenario trying to take Bastogne using the new Strategic Victory Condition simulating the take of the fuel dump could be really good, and also Skorzeny commando’s could be used). 4- A defend of the eastern front during Soviet 44 offencive. From the Russian side: 1- Some think that goes from Operation “Bagration” to Berlin (of course that a long campaign that starts in Stalingrad and ends in Berlin could be even better). Best Regards...

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Hasta la victoria siempre!

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Post #: 16
- 10/20/2000 3:37:00 AM   
RUsco

 

Posts: 402
Joined: 8/11/2000
From: Grand Rapids,MI USA
Status: offline 		Something on the U.S. 1st Inf Div. If I remember correctly they fought in every major campaign though out the whole war. Mostly Inf engagements. A British campaign form N.Africa throughout the war. Every one else suggested German or Soviet long Campaigns. A campaign on the Canadians. U.S./British in Burma.

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Post #: 17
- 10/20/2000 6:21:00 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		Yes Che, the neat thing about these branching campaigns is that is just what you say, you progress depending on your victory. Get a decisive and you will skip a couple of battles. When one does not do well, that creates new situations that the campaigner must deal with. You saw the list of all 13 scenarios in Heroes. If you get a string of decisives you probably won't play more than 8 of them. Good hunting!...Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 18
- 10/20/2000 6:45:00 AM   
Kluckenbill

 

Posts: 278
Joined: 6/7/2000
From: Lancaster, PA, USA
Status: offline 		I'd love to see a LOOOONG Eastern Front Campaign. I like both sides there, they just get the neat equipment at different stages of the war. It should be styled after the Computer-Generated WW2 Campaign but with "canned" battles so you have a rougher and more interesting time of it. I certainly have found the designed campaigns (especially Bill's) much more fun and challenging than the computer generated versions. The biggest problem I see is in the sheer amount of work it would be to design a series of branching battle going the entire length of the war. You would have to make the later battles extremely difficult for someone who has won a lot of major victories and has built up a great force, but easier for someone whose force is less imposing.

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Post #: 19
- 10/20/2000 11:04:00 AM   
Reg


Posts: 2787
Joined: 5/26/2000
From: NSW, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by RUsco: A British campaign form N.Africa throughout the war. Every one else suggested German or Soviet long Campaigns.
How about the British 7th Armoured Division who started with a minor skirmish with the Italians on the frontier June 1940 and finished up in Berlin 5 years later having come via North Africa, Sicily, Italy and France. It seemed to have had most armoured units equipped with everything the British ever had owned under it's control at some time or other during it's career. (The unit history isn't a bad read either). Just (another) suggestion, Reg [This message has been edited by Reg (edited October 20, 2000).]

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Cheers,
Reg.

(One day I will learn to spell - or check before posting....)
Uh oh, Firefox has a spell checker!! What excuse can I use now!!!

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Post #: 20
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