VictorInThePacific
Posts: 169
Joined: 10/30/2008 Status: offline
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With 1 Tico and 3 Burkes, this formation is a massive weapon against [almost] all threats.... Still, your formation is no party against 1 single submarine. These weapons may collide with each other accidently, but, even a diesel can turn your day into a nightmare. Not to mention the ASM that slips throught your defence lines. For purposes of this thread, torpedo attacks by submarines are not being considered. Dealing with this threat will involve modifying the formation and replacing assets that have been deleted. Line 1 of the thread: "What exact combination of anti-ship missiles, ARMs, jamming, and/or decoys is needed to defeat a modern day Aegis protected naval group?" quote:
Just hypothetical.... what if you do not have a aircraft carrier? Then you have no AWACS right away. You must rely on the land based EW/EAW. Actually, this has been bothering me. Although there is an aircraft carrier in the middle of this formation, it is more proper to think of the US force as a surface action group that just happens to contain a large target that behaves in some ways like a CV, rather than a CVBG that is missing all its airplanes. Some further comments about AWACS. As I recall, the Hawkeye is considerably less capable that the Sentry, both in terms of radar range and cruise time. Not that it would be an issue in real life, but in the game, I am somewhat irritated by the fact that I have to keep sending up a bunch of Hawkeyes to do the job of one Sentry, so wherever possible, I like to make sure that I have a Sentry nearby, after which I can generally forget about it. But for purposes of this scenario, all I'm using the AWACS for is to make sure that the US group will not be surprised by an enemy surface group or by incoming missiles. Based on the stated location, a Sentry could be flying from Japan. Or we could just include the 2 criteria in this paragraph as part of the scenario definition, and let it go at that. quote:
When a Russian Kirov class and a Oscar class launch their SS-N-19 and these missiles arrive at the same time, you are in deep trouble. But, that's of course all hypothetical. Only 1 Shipwreck kills a Tico and 3 of them are enough to kill your 5,000-people home base. What about a second attack? Once your CG and DDG's are out of ammo, they only have a 76mm gun and their CIWS........ Zeroth-order approximation to the answer to the problem: (Working just from memory right now) The US group carries about 240 Standard missiles. They hit about 75% of the time. So they will wipe out approximately 180 incoming missiles. Due to the closely spaced formation, all of the SAMs will be available against any attack. I will assume that the guns on each ship will kill one missile, that each ship will be missed once, and that the first hit will sink each ship. So the divide occurs at about 200 incoming missiles: less will have no effect, more will wipe out the fleet. Adding rate of fire to the calculation: The fleet can pump out 30 missiles per cycle time. In 2 cycles, that's 60 missiles and 45 kills. Between them, a Kirov and and Oscar can launch less than 40 missiles. So you can see that the US fleet will simply swat that attack aside without breaking a sweat. Actually, they could swat 3 such attacks aside without breaking a sweat. After that, they will be sweating buckets. The figure of 200 applies to a piecemeal attack. Of course, we would like to reduce the number of attacking missiles required. Due to the nature of the formation and the SAMs in play, I see no realistic option to do this by maneuver or choice of attacking missiles. As stated above, the formation is weakest from the rear (or wherever the CG is NOT). There is no way around this problem, as there is only one CG. So the attack will come in from that direction. Now, even though these are Aegis- and VLS-equipped ships, it may be possible to saturate the defenses, but that will have to wait for a more detailed calculation. One more definition: nukes are not available. The formation has been set up so that a nuke is going to do no more than a regular missile, which is sink one ship. (Actually, nukes essentially don't miss, so the first hit will be a kill, not the second. That means you need a few less missiles.) quote:
A clue? Yes. Massive ASW-ops and stay away from enemy surface formations. But, again. These are all hypothetical issues. Enemy surface formations are not being considered in this problem. To be precise, gun actions will not happen. We will allow for incoming missiles from surface or subsurface platforms, but those missiles will be considered equivalent to those launched from airplanes. quote:
I would love to meet you in a MP-game to prove that you might be wrong. I say MIGHT, because your formation, with 1 Tico and 3 Burkes, is something to count with. Well, it probably won't be me, because my software, hardware, and other resources do not permit it at this time. But all the details of the calculation will be out in the public, so anyone can find any mistakes. And people are welcome to try the thing out in practice and let the rest of us know if the calculation works. I may set up a test scenario, but that will be far in the future. The next step will be an analysis of the specific defensive weapons systems. If things work out, this will take about 1 day.
< Message edited by VictorInThePacific -- 2/18/2009 1:21:15 AM >
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