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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> A Newbies Concern Page: [1]
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A Newbies Concern - 5/11/2002 9:42:17 AM   
YZ426f

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 5/11/2002
From: St.Louis Mo. USA
Status: offline 		Hello. First off let me tell you all that you have a great forum that is both polite and informative. It helps to bring newbies like me over to this type of gaming.

As to my Question;

I have recently downloaded PacWar and have been slowly trying to figure out the system. Although I have never been interested in the Pacific War, the game appears to be something that appeals to me and that is where I run into my first problem.

The manual to PacWar is lacking many things and one major thing is that there doesn't seem to be any examples of why I should be doing things and what it affects. The Manual seems to take for granted that I know much about how fleet battles were fought. I do not. Therefore I am very confused as to how to approach the game. Also, there seems to be many discrepancies between the written manual and the actual game.

My concern is this;

If a guy doesn't know much (read anything) about how the war was waged in the Pacific, is there any hope of the manual teaching me WHY I want to do certain things? I understand the there will be a steep learning curve to a game of this magnitude but, is the manual far better than PacWars' was to teaching a newbie-in-the-dark? I sure do hope so.

The manual should contain plenty of examples and explanations so that people such as me can understand the how and why's. I do look forward to this game and will purchase it as long as I am sure that the manual is of top-notch quality and suitable for a complete newbie.

Any thoughts about this and how it will differ from the uninformative PacWar manual.

Thank you.

Yamadog
Post #: 1
- 5/11/2002 10:09:11 AM   
siRkid


Posts: 6650
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: Orland FL
Status: offline 		Hi, I'm one of the Beta Testers and the manual is well over 100 pages long. It explains in great detail how the game mechanics work but very little on tactics. For that kind of information will need to come here or read a lot of books.:) UV has much more detail than PacWar. One good thing is you can not assign a mission to a ship or plane that it is not capable of performing.

I recommend you read the After Action Reports (AAR) on this BB and ask questions about why the players did what they did.

Welcome to the war. :D

Rick

_____________________________

Former War in the Pacific Test Team Manager and Beta Tester for War in the East.


(in reply to YZ426f)
Post #: 2
:) - 5/11/2002 10:33:23 AM   
Rob Roberson

 

Posts: 387
Joined: 5/1/2002
Status: offline 		Honestly, you should go hit he library or the local bookstore and pic up a copy of the Pacific War, or any number of World War 2 books based on that side of the conflict. A lot of them will give you a basic understanding of combined arms in the Pacific theater.

Without a basic understanding of why the opposing sides did things in this war...this game would be hard to play..at least in my opinion. SO get to reading!

and as kid said...welcome to the war.

Rob

(in reply to YZ426f)
Post #: 3
- 5/11/2002 10:55:12 AM   
YZ426f

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 5/11/2002
From: St.Louis Mo. USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for the quick replies. I guess I better get cracking on those books. Luckily I have some things lying around to get me started.

I should know everything there is to know about the war in the Pacific by this time tomorrow. It's kind of like how they wanted to make me a boss after my first day on the job....

O.K., nobody believes you so just say goodbye.



Goodbye and thanks again,

Yamadog

(in reply to YZ426f)
Post #: 4
- 5/11/2002 10:57:39 AM   
Hartmann

 

Posts: 888
Joined: 11/28/2000
Status: offline 		Yamadog, don´t worry! There are some very basic things about tactics in sea warfare which you will have to learn, and all the rest kinda follows from these.
Always keep in mind that in seawarfare, the ultimate goal is the same as in land warfare: control. To control an area, you have to get your armies there.
This is why you need transports. Then you need supply convoys to support your army bases once they are established. So the first rule is: transports and supplies, however boring these units look, are the reason for everything else being there, from submarines to the biggest carriers and battleships. There is a logical reason for everything. E.g.submarines can sink your transports and supply ships, starving your troops on the island, so you need destroyers to get to those submarines etc. (well, things are a bit more complicated, but you get the picture...)
After playing for a while, you will figure everything out, from how to set up a task force efficiently to why there are seaplane tenders and light cruisers.
The old PacificWar was a great game, but with a very unintuitive interface. I´m sure that UV will play much smoother for newbies, even if it is much more detailed. You will find that sea warfare in the Pacific is every bit as exciting as blitzing Panzers, pincer movements and encirclements. IMO, it´s even more exciting. :)

Hartmann

(in reply to YZ426f)
Post #: 5
:) - 5/11/2002 11:03:21 AM   
Rob Roberson

 

Posts: 387
Joined: 5/1/2002
Status: offline 		Spoken like a landlubber hartmann...panzers indeed!

(in reply to YZ426f)
Post #: 6
Re: A Newbies Concern - 5/11/2002 12:15:59 PM   
1089

 

Posts: 210
Joined: 7/4/2001
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by YZ426f
[B]Hello. First off let me tell you all that you have a great forum that is both polite and informative. It helps to bring newbies like me over to this type of gaming.

As to my Question;

The manual to PacWar is lacking many things and one major thing is that there doesn't seem to be any examples of why I should be doing things and what it affects. The Manual seems to take for granted that I know much about how fleet battles were fought. I do not. Therefore I am very confused as to how to approach the game. Also, there seems to be many discrepancies between the written manual and the actual game.

Yamadog [/B][/QUOTE]

Keep in mind that the version of PacWar you are playing is not the version the manual was written for. The manual is the original from 1992, and does not reflect any of the myriad changes that have been made to the game by Matrix. Since they are giving it away, they have not updated the manual. If you played the game in '92, the changes are easy to assimilate, but if you are trying to figure it out from the old manual now, it is you who may be assimilated. ;) So don't worry, I'm sure that the manual that comes with UV will be much easier to understand, and for tactics, just learn from the AI at first, and then when you think you're pretty good at that, find a human to play against, and discover a world that you never expected!

kp

(in reply to YZ426f)
Post #: 7
- 5/11/2002 12:28:42 PM   
IChristie

 

Posts: 673
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		Hi Yamadog,

Thanks for asking the questions. I'll bet there are quite a few other lurkers out there that have the same concerns.

For myself, I certainly am not a true aficiando of the Pacific War. I got drafted late in the UC development to redo the map, as part of the job I got an early copy of UV and I got hooked.

Like you I tried to play PACWAR and found it, well, almost completely impenetrable. There was just too much detail and nothing seemed to happen the way I thought it was going to.

I am happy to say, the same is NOT true of UV. There is still a lot of detail to assimilate (like what the heck are AG or AK or AP class ships - no I didn't know before I started playing). But the manual is much better and the interface is better at hiding some of the detail until you really want to know it (which you will eventually). Also UV comes with some short scenarios so you don't have to worry about managing the whole war the first time you try to play.

I would definitely agree with the comment that the AI is a great teacher. I learned alot from playing it. I learned alot from reading some of the AAR's on this board as well.

I actually found that playing the game made me go back and do some reading (including some on-line reading) which in turn helped me understand some of the tactics which work and some which don't.

I think that you will find UV a much easier game to learn to play than PACWAR.

ic

_____________________________

Iain Christie
-----------------
"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

(in reply to YZ426f)
Post #: 8
Manual - 5/11/2002 12:47:07 PM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Greetings and Welcome. US Grant when he was made a Colonel for the Civil War decided he needed a refresher course on troop handling and tactic. He began reading "Hardee's Light Infantry' but threw the book away after a few chapters when he discovered it was just common sense. Therefore I will not rewrite the manual here but instead give a very basic primer on how PacWar works. You'll have to discover stratagy on your own.

First thing to know about PacWar is the '?' key will show you a list of commands and what keys they are associated with (just hit '?' while in your orders phase)

Taskforces
to create move curser to port and hit 'C' this brings up this menu
Select TF mission
Air combat
Surface Combat
Bombardment
Cargo
Transport
Replenish
Tokyo Express (if Japanese)
Evacuation
Motor Torpedo Boat (if US)

Air Combat primary ships CV/CVL for carriers other ships in TF are for AA protection and ASW escort. Leader assigned should have air rating equal or higher then CV point total. CV point total is add the number of CV (IJN=2 USN=3 CVL/CVE=1 so for example you are making a USN aircombat TF and asign 2 CV to it. that is 6points you would want a leader with an aircombat rating of 6 or higher in command. When using aircombat TF to defend place them at a base where they can move to any threatend spot and use "F" key. This is where you assign standoff and reaction ranges.
decide how far you want them to go to intercept any enemy TF that moves through your airzones. TF aslo need 'PP's' (preparation points) these are issued by the friendly controlling HQ. A TF is placed under control of the HQ that controlls the base it is created in. Try to keep TF under Navy control (they'll fight better) If you want your aircombat TF to move to an enemy base use the "D" key to set destination. put curser on target base. Now hit "F" key and assign standoff. Air combat TF should stand off at least 1 hex to avoid running into enemy surface TF. Surface and Bombardment and transport TF sould have standoff set to 0 (so they actually move into base hex) The other types of TF are just what there names imply. But a surface TF that encounters no enemy surface TF and is in a hex containing enemy land units/air will conduct a bombardment. A bombardment TF can still engage in surface combat (it just will not start it) A cargo TF will not move into enemy airzones of control. So to land troops on a enemy base you need to select Transport. Surface and bombardment TF leaders should have high surface ratings. Transport TF should have high landcombat ratings for invasions high aggressin to move anywhere enemy air could attack them (to supply a friendly base that has enemy airgroups attacking it select transport and high aggression leader low rated ones might turn back without delivering the supplies.

Air combat the missions are just what they say Nightcombat is best left to units with exp over 70 (but lower ones that get shot up in daylight should be considered)

Landcombat you need to active units to attack they will defend on their own. Give bases leaders. Leaders and HQ are very important in PacWar. any specific question just ask.

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to YZ426f)
Post #: 9
- 5/13/2002 12:47:20 AM   
YZ426f

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 5/11/2002
From: St.Louis Mo. USA
Status: offline 		Hello again. After looking at all the screens I could find and skimming through some AAR's I have decided to buy UV and forego learning PacWar for the time being. Why waste time trying to learn a new system when UV has me salivating with all it's appeal? I am so looking forward to it's release.

Is there a demo planned? I haven't seen anything mentioned on the subject before unless I missed it. I sure hope the will be.

This is going to be a good summer for games IMO

Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin by Battlefont.com

UV

NWN

There goes my already limited free time. Thanks to all those who took the time out to explain things to me. Your efforts will be rewarded with a sound thrashing once I er.. master... this game.

Another question; Is there any FAQ's regarding UV that someone might point me to?


Thank you,

Yamadog

(in reply to YZ426f)
Post #: 10
- 5/13/2002 7:09:46 AM   
gus

 

Posts: 237
Joined: 3/16/2002
From: Corvallis, OR
Status: offline 		Hi Yamadog

Don't give up on PacWar just yet. While the manual is certainly out-of-date and the UI may be a bit dated as well you will find it a very rich game and one that I have perpetually kept on my hard drive for the past 10 years as I just do not seem to ever tire of playing it. Also don't worry about your lack of knowledge about the Pacific theater in WWII this may actually be an advantage as you are more likely to discover a fresh approach to the game instead of repeating hisorical plans and mistakes.

FYI, there is a great PacWar Web page that will answer many of your questions and then some.

http://home.earthlink.net/~tmflood/page2.html

Cheers

-g

(in reply to YZ426f)
Post #: 11
- 5/13/2002 1:32:46 PM   
Supervisor

 

Posts: 5166
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline 		[QUOTE] Is there a demo planned?[/QUOTE]
No demo planned that I know of.

_____________________________


(in reply to YZ426f)
Post #: 12
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