WanderingHead
Posts: 2134
Joined: 9/22/2004
From: GMT-8
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marshall Art
What would happen if India/Australia surrenders, would their units still on the map that get damaged move over to another Nation and become their Nationality after repair? Same for the Fall of England.
The next patch, the Indian "surrender" (the nation India becomes Neutral) will remove all Indian nationality units from outside of Neutral India.
The Australian surrender is unchanged. The units will remain on the map. If they get damaged and repaired in England or Canada or USA then they will gradually (50% each time) change nationalities and no longer be Commonwealth. Which seems reasonable from the standpoint of attrition on units that are no longer being replaced from the homeland (Australia).
quote:
ORIGINAL: Marshall Art
quote:
ORIGINAL: WanderingHead
The unit queues in England, but the French population stays in France. So really we are talking about a situation where half of the materials are British and 100% of the population in the unit is British.
I don't get it - so a French unit attacks, gets damaged. Their soldiers go home to their mummies, all weapons are sent to England, and suddenly we have a new British unit? 
That IMO is even worse than allowing the French to flee and survive in Britain half French/half British a la DeGaulle. If a unit is damaged and gets transferred to a factory it should leave its (reduced) population there and not in its home country?
Still not convinced that it could not be exploited - at what point do the units chance nationality exactly? Could I get my French units damaged, wait until French surrender, and have the surviving ones repaired later?
Nationality changing would be upon completion of repair, so that wouldn't work. That is why I say the Player is taking a real gamble on completely wasting production and population on this approach. The unit will not change nationality until after the production and population is committed the unit is rebuilt. Again, bear in mind that the Player cannot even tell what nationality of unit is being rebuilt, and it might be a capability offset minor nation (e.g. a Rumanian unit being rebuilt in E Germany).
This whole thing is kind of a corner case. No matter what you do it is not precisely realistic. If French population goes to England, they become English (there is only one generic population pool in England, noone would want to track all the nationalities). If French population stays in France and French units go to England, then English population is used (wasted) to build French units which then disappear. The only decent options seem to be to leave the unit in France to repair, even if France has no production.
A part of the picture is that right now the bias against zero-production factories is larger than the bias against going to a different nation. Hence French units prefer to go to England instead of France if France has zero production. It is only in the beginning of the game when France and Netherlands have zero production that this seems a little odd. But it could be changed to reduce the no-zero-production-factory bias, so that even if a nation has no working factories the unit will prefer to go to its own national factories instead of to a different nation. This would make some sense, from the standpoint that it forces the Player to be friendly to that nation and repair its factories in order to repair the units. Sort of a diplomatic effect saying that you can't ignore repairing Rumania's factories, for example, just so that you can rebuild units in Germany.
Revised proposal:
1) fix the repair bug (a given, it is a bug leading to poorly defined behavior)
2) change the factory selection weightings, so that a unit will generally pick a factory of its own nation over a friendly foreign factory, even if there is no same nation factory with non-zero production. This means French units will stay in France for repair as long as there is a WA controlled French factory there. Indian units will queue in India even if the factories are busted by the Japanese.
3) units repaired in a nation not their own have a 50% chance of adopting the nationality of the repairing nation.
Hopefully #2 makes #3 more palatable. I really prefer to keep #3. I could even favor 100% chance to change to building nation, to make it deterministic so the player doesn't need to worry about which units he's rebuilding. I'm proposing 50% just to be conservative and compromise. I think that on the whole it makes various things less weird (it is changing the nationality of only 1 population point [on average] instead of 2), particularly given that you can't see the nationality in the production screen. Say Australia is captured by the Japanese ... I feel that a Commonwealth unit repaired 6 times in the USA using American population every time is more American than Australian.
Anyone else have an opinion? I'd like to finalize tonight.
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repair of French units in 1939 - 
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