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Put REAL TIME GAME IN HUGE BLOODY LETTERING - 2/23/2009 1:30:37 AM   
miral

 

Posts: 170
Joined: 12/20/2007
Status: offline 		I am constantly baffled by the fact that many ads for computer games fail to specify whether they are turn based or real time. I ordered WAR think it, like almost all of the games from Matrix, was turn based. I loathe real time games. Haven't gotten it as it is backordered but since all sales are final I am stuck.

Yes, I know that in the specifications, in small print it says real time game, so I am not blaming anyone for my mistake. But since this is the most important fact about a game could you at Matrix and indeed all game makers please put REAL TIME GAME IN GREAT BIG RED LETTERING UP FRONT IN THE ADS? Thank you.
Post #: 1
RE: Put REAL TIME GAME IN HUGE BLOODY LETTERING - 2/23/2009 1:41:09 AM   
Andrew Williams


Posts: 6116
Joined: 1/8/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline 		I think all matrixgames are advertised with the accompanying data sheet
Below is the one with WaR

Game Data
  • Complexity: Basic to Moderate
  • Field of Play: Tactical
  • Historical Period: World War II
  • Theater: European
  • Unit Scale: Individual Soldier to Squad Level
  • Turn Play: Real Time Strategy
  • Players: 1 - 2
  • AI: Yes
  • TCP/IP: Yes
  • PBEM: No
  • Game Editor: Yes
  • Manual: PDF (Download) & B/W printed(Physical), 92 pages
  • Display Resolution: 1024x768 or higher


If each of those was put in HUGE BLOODY LETTERING  there would be no room for the game.

(in reply to miral)
Post #: 2
RE: Put REAL TIME GAME IN HUGE BLOODY LETTERING - 2/23/2009 6:39:23 PM   
Svend Karlson


Posts: 194
Joined: 4/6/2005
Status: offline 		Miral, don't write this one off.

I vastly prefer turn based games most of the time, but there are exceptions to that rule. Hearts of Iron and Paradoxes other grand-strategies are one of them. Close Combat is another. They honest to goodness work better real-time and there is no time-pressure at all.

Best regards


_____________________________


(in reply to Andrew Williams)
Post #: 3
RE: Put REAL TIME GAME IN HUGE BLOODY LETTERING - 2/23/2009 8:00:29 PM   
miral

 

Posts: 170
Joined: 12/20/2007
Status: offline 		Dear Mr. Williams,

You will notice that I said in my post that I was not blaming Matrix for my mistake; the info on Real Time is indeed in the ad. Nor did I request that you put ALL the game info in large lettering. I requested that, since real time or turn based is probably the single most important point in deciding whether to buy a game or not, you put this specific piece of information in a prominent place; up front and in large letters.

Thank you

(in reply to Andrew Williams)
Post #: 4
RE: Put REAL TIME GAME IN HUGE BLOODY LETTERING - 2/23/2009 8:02:39 PM   
miral

 

Posts: 170
Joined: 12/20/2007
Status: offline 		Dear Mr. Karlson,

Thank you for your words of encouragement. Since you are mostly a turn based player too, I will indeed take your advice and give WAR a try. I hope I will be pleasantly surprised; there are indeed exceptions to everything and I have great hope, from reading some of the forums, that the ability to play WAR at a very slow speed will make it more of a cross between real time and turn based.

Thanks

(in reply to Svend Karlson)
Post #: 5
RE: Put REAL TIME GAME IN HUGE BLOODY LETTERING - 2/23/2009 10:44:33 PM   
Platoon_Michael


Posts: 1119
Joined: 3/9/2003
Status: offline 		You may not enjoy playing with the slow speed option.Might I suggest trying the game at medium or fast speed then adjust accordingly if needed.
Using the zoomed out option (located in the lower left corner) helps a lot when things do get heated up and also when trying to determine LOS.I strongly suggest using that for deployment also until you get used to the maps.
It's just unfortunate that they didnt offer any options like assigning support showing elevation or allowing the voice box from your teams to open up like and selecting troops like when playing.
But you can issue the normal orders.

(in reply to miral)
Post #: 6
RE: Put REAL TIME GAME IN HUGE BLOODY LETTERING - 2/24/2009 2:45:18 AM   
noname

 

Posts: 55
Joined: 2/8/2009
From: New Jersey USA
Status: offline 		Thank You Miral, I was about to order the game when I saw your post. There have been very few RTS games that I have enjoyed and am not about to risk my hard earned money on another one. The market is flooded with RTS, but they sell and Matrix needs money too, so I don't blame them. At least they do give the type of game even if hard to find. Most advertising neglects to mention it at all.

(in reply to miral)
Post #: 7
RE: Put REAL TIME GAME IN HUGE BLOODY LETTERING - 2/24/2009 3:26:39 AM   
TDeacon

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 12/25/2005
From: NE Illinois
Status: offline 		Hi Miral,

The game is "real-time", but you can pause it and issue commands (unless of course playing against another player). 

Overall, the Close Combat series can be quite addicting.  In addition, CC Wacht am Rhein (which is a revision of the old CC IV) has a much improved strategic game, to link the individual tactical battles. 

_____________________________

Mark Hinds

(in reply to noname)
Post #: 8
RE: Put REAL TIME GAME IN HUGE BLOODY LETTERING - 2/24/2009 4:57:09 AM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: noname

The market is flooded with RTS, but they sell and Matrix needs money too, so I don't blame them.




The thing is that Close Combat is not RTS in the way you imply. It is not comparable to "the market" you mention.

I have alwayes loathed RTS but I have been a great fan of Close Combat.
-





(in reply to noname)
Post #: 9
RE: Put REAL TIME GAME IN HUGE BLOODY LETTERING - 2/24/2009 5:34:18 AM   
Jonathan Pollard


Posts: 584
Joined: 2/25/2007
From: Federal prison
Status: offline 		I think there was/is a demo for the original Close Combat that still might be available which gives a general idea on how all the CC series plays.

By the way, I think the "I can't take it" audio (in both English and German) is much better in the original Close Combat than in WaR, I wonder if it would be possible to replace the sound file to get the original.

< Message edited by Jonathan Pollard -- 2/24/2009 5:37:14 AM >

_____________________________



http://www.ussliberty.org/index2.html
https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/but-sir-its-an-american-ship-never-mind-hit-her-1.5492908

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 10
RE: Put REAL TIME GAME IN HUGE BLOODY LETTERING - 2/24/2009 6:05:18 AM   
Andrew Williams


Posts: 6116
Joined: 1/8/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline 		 think it is the original... I didn't replace it.


(in reply to Jonathan Pollard)
Post #: 11
RE: Put REAL TIME GAME IN HUGE BLOODY LETTERING - 2/24/2009 6:16:01 AM   
e_barkmann


Posts: 1307
Joined: 4/18/2000
From: Adelaide, Australia
Status: offline 		as has been pointed out, CC is not yer average twitcher RTS.

There is a complete absense of nicely animated factories pushing out freshly made tanks.

There is the complete absense of Technology Trees.

There is a complete absense of natural and man made Resouce summaries

There is a complete absense of the Political and Diplomatic windows.

It's a good game, and I give most RTS/continuous pausible games a wide berth these days.

cheers




_____________________________

Scourge of War multiplayer group

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/sowwaterloo

(in reply to Andrew Williams)
Post #: 12
RE: Put REAL TIME GAME IN HUGE BLOODY LETTERING - 2/24/2009 7:13:00 PM   
noname

 

Posts: 55
Joined: 2/8/2009
From: New Jersey USA
Status: offline 		OK, so the game is pausable and you can give orders. Can you also move the camera to view the entire battlefield, can you go to the different screens to check info and stats? I was confused because CC Cross of Iron is listed as RTS Pausable and CC WAR is listed as just RTS. I really dislike the mad click fest of the RTS. I am a slow thinker and planner but I get there just the same and enjoy it. In RTS the AI slaughters me while I am thinking. Thanks for the help.

(in reply to miral)
Post #: 13
RE: Put REAL TIME GAME IN HUGE BLOODY LETTERING - 2/24/2009 7:25:35 PM   
Svend Karlson


Posts: 194
Joined: 4/6/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: noname

OK, so the game is pausable and you can give orders. Can you also move the camera to view the entire battlefield, can you go to the different screens to check info and stats? I was confused because CC Cross of Iron is listed as RTS Pausable and CC WAR is listed as just RTS. I really dislike the mad click fest of the RTS. I am a slow thinker and planner but I get there just the same and enjoy it. In RTS the AI slaughters me while I am thinking. Thanks for the help.


Honestly, this game is as far away from being a click-fest as say . . . . Germany was from adopting a single model for a tank and then sticking to it.

When I said in my first post that I was mostly a turn-based type gamer, let me qualify that.

I bought but ceased playing Warcraft 3 because I could not give orders when paused. I bought but ceased playing Ground Control because I could not give orders when paused. Finally, I learned my lesson and didn't buy Imperial Glory, because although nowhere in any product features or reviews did it indicate whether one could pause and give orders, I asked in their forums and found the answer was no. I left polite feedback on their forums indicating the lack of that feature was the reason I would not buy their game, and so did a few others.

Close Combat is different though. I too was initially very very wary, but the combination of strategic layer and tactical, realistic combat was too much for me and I caved. I am so glad I did. I never feel pressured for time, never feel that I cannot study the map, my soldiers, the enemy, and if I was offered a turn-based version of Close Combat, would now decline, since I do not think it could possibly work as well.

I don't intend to wax lyrical, but that is my summary.

_____________________________


(in reply to noname)
Post #: 14
RE: Put REAL TIME GAME IN HUGE BLOODY LETTERING - 2/24/2009 7:26:12 PM   
noname

 

Posts: 55
Joined: 2/8/2009
From: New Jersey USA
Status: offline 		HEY!!! I was reading further in this forum and came across a comment by Marc Martial to the effect that you cannot issue orders in Pause mode. Who is right?

(in reply to miral)
Post #: 15
RE: Put REAL TIME GAME IN HUGE BLOODY LETTERING - 2/24/2009 8:07:00 PM   
CSO_Talorgan


Posts: 768
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL:  Platoon_Michael: Might I suggest trying the game at medium or fast speed then adjust accordingly if needed.

... or vary the speed to taste via F8.

quote:

ORIGINAL:  noname: I am a slow thinker and planner but I get there just the same and enjoy it.  In RTS the AI slaughters me while I am thinking.

Me too but it's a long time since the Close Combat AI has slaughtered me.

It's like everything else, you become accustomed to the game.

That's not to say that it doesn't cause the pulse to race, but why would you play if it didn't?

Have to say that while turn-based is entirely appropriate for operational games, or for huge tactical games like Combat Mission, it is much less so for small scale action. Real life isn't turn based. 

quote:

ORIGINAL:  noname: a comment by Marc Martial to the effect that you cannot issue orders in Pause mode. Who is right?

He is, unfortunately.

(in reply to noname)
Post #: 16
RE: Put REAL TIME GAME IN HUGE BLOODY LETTERING - 2/24/2009 8:10:23 PM   
noname

 

Posts: 55
Joined: 2/8/2009
From: New Jersey USA
Status: offline 		Thank you Mr. Karlson, I appreciate your extended reply and I think that I will try the game when I have the money to spare.. Maybe Miral will have his thoughts posted when he gets the game. The more opinions the better. Thanks

(in reply to miral)
Post #: 17
RE: Put REAL TIME GAME IN HUGE BLOODY LETTERING - 2/24/2009 11:41:00 PM   
miral

 

Posts: 170
Joined: 12/20/2007
Status: offline 		Thank you one and all for your comments and advice on playing WAR. I am now intrigued enough to keep an open mind and will give it a good try.

I hope I can claim the title of World's Greatest Hater of Real Time Games. Nobody hates Real Time more than me. We live our lives under the command of the Terrible Clock, watching It, being rushed, having no time to think; not the experience I want in a game. So if I enjoy WAR I think most turn based fans will. Once I have received and assimilated the game I will post my thoughts on it for the benefit of turn based players. I could well be wrong about this (being wrong is a fairly strong speciality of mine also). Again, thanks all.

(in reply to miral)
Post #: 18
RE: Put REAL TIME GAME IN HUGE BLOODY LETTERING - 2/25/2009 4:03:16 AM   
TDeacon

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 12/25/2005
From: NE Illinois
Status: offline 		Whoops; sorry Miral / Noname,

I was mistaken about orders in pause mode.  No intention to deceive; just confusing with another game I am playing right now (Nexus).  (Dumb of me). 

However, you ***can*** pause (when playing against the AI, not a real human opponent), and even though orders cannot be issued, you can scan the visible portion of the map and decide which orders to issue, ready to go when unpaused.  Furthermore, the nature of orders-giving in CC is such that when you unpause, the AI will typically simulate the normal degree of indecision, such that it seems to not have benefited from the pause.  You can also repeat this cycle, for example, pause - consider - target the Panther - immediately pause again - consider - target the next unit - etc.  Thus, the net effect approaches being able to issue all orders while paused. 

_____________________________

Mark Hinds

(in reply to miral)
Post #: 19
RE: Put REAL TIME GAME IN HUGE BLOODY LETTERING - 2/25/2009 5:18:45 AM   
TDeacon

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 12/25/2005
From: NE Illinois
Status: offline 		OK, have now started a multiplayer game on my home LAN and am looking at both sides at once.   I see that one ***can*** pause the game (esc key) in multiplayer as well. 

_____________________________

Mark Hinds

(in reply to TDeacon)
Post #: 20
RE: Put REAL TIME GAME IN HUGE BLOODY LETTERING - 2/25/2009 6:31:16 AM   
Andrew Williams


Posts: 6116
Joined: 1/8/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline 		yeh, but it causes your opponent to "pause" at the same time... which he might not want to do.

(in reply to TDeacon)
Post #: 21
RE: Put REAL TIME GAME IN HUGE BLOODY LETTERING - 2/25/2009 7:23:34 PM   
Svend Karlson


Posts: 194
Joined: 4/6/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: miral
I hope I can claim the title of World's Greatest Hater of Real Time Games. Nobody hates Real Time more than me. We live our lives under the command of the Terrible Clock, watching It, being rushed, having no time to think; not the experience I want in a game.


One of the reasons I have a bit of a grudge against real-time is that it started being implemented in games that would otherwise have been turn-based, and featured as an "improvement".

For instance SSI's Warlords series. I loved the turn-based versions. I hear that the later RTS versions were okay from others, but for me? Way to destroy a series :(

_____________________________


(in reply to miral)
Post #: 22
RE: Put REAL TIME GAME IN HUGE BLOODY LETTERING - 2/25/2009 7:27:03 PM   
templeton


Posts: 40
Joined: 10/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: miral
I requested that, since real time or turn based is probably the single most important point in deciding whether to buy a game or not, you put this specific piece of information in a prominent place; up front and in large letters.



Fair point - but don't confuse what is most important to you as being what is most important to me or others.

Besides, before a game comes out there is lots of descriptions on the forum - and the fact it is a real-time game was clearly stated. Close Combat is a franchise over a decade old, and it is known for the best blend of realism and Real-Time.

(in reply to miral)
Post #: 23
RE: Put REAL TIME GAME IN HUGE BLOODY LETTERING - 2/25/2009 11:52:18 PM   
noname

 

Posts: 55
Joined: 2/8/2009
From: New Jersey USA
Status: offline 		Thanks TDeacon, the way you put it sounds interesting. As I said I'm saving my money. Of course I'm saving for LocknLoad too, and that money will NOT be touched for any other game. By the way, how do you play more than one game at time, don't you need to sleep or something.

(in reply to miral)
Post #: 24
RE: Put REAL TIME GAME IN HUGE BLOODY LETTERING - 2/26/2009 1:39:33 AM   
panzerlehr62


Posts: 314
Joined: 2/23/2009
Status: offline 		Hello,

You might allready have every version of this "turned based game", but just encase you dont, may I suggest Steel Panthers to you. I cant tell you how many hours I played that game years ago, and I believe they are still updating it. That was one game were a "trench" actually was worthy of the term digging in!.

As someone who has played every CC version and loves turned based games as well, I will find it very hard to believe you wont enjoy this "real time" game.

Good luck to you,

Rob...






< Message edited by panzerlehr62 -- 2/26/2009 1:40:32 AM >

(in reply to miral)
Post #: 25
RE: Put REAL TIME GAME IN HUGE BLOODY LETTERING - 2/26/2009 5:58:32 PM   
TheReal_Pak40

 

Posts: 186
Joined: 10/8/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

quote:

ORIGINAL: noname

The market is flooded with RTS, but they sell and Matrix needs money too, so I don't blame them.




The thing is that Close Combat is not RTS in the way you imply. It is not comparable to "the market" you mention.

I have alwayes loathed RTS but I have been a great fan of Close Combat.
-


right, it's RTT. Real Time Tactical. I think I just invented a new phrase.

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 26
RE: Put REAL TIME GAME IN HUGE BLOODY LETTERING - 2/26/2009 11:41:00 PM   
Senior Drill


Posts: 199
Joined: 11/21/2007
From: Quantico
Status: offline 		Sorry, Pak40, but that and other variations have been used over the years to try to explain the difference between the CC series and other RTS games. Real Time Tactical was used in a couple of press releases and elicited thunderous yawns of incomprehension.

The problem has and continues to be that Close Combat doesn't fit into the game industry niches and no one has been able to adequately create the niche title that adequately describes the CC system, hence all the confusion and claims of "click fest" by those not in the know when told it is RTS. Close Combat battles are "come as you are" with whatever you managed to set up for that Battle Group on the Stratigic level and it is fight it through to the bitter end or quit and have to start again from that battle's beginning.



_____________________________

C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre.

(in reply to TheReal_Pak40)
Post #: 27
RE: Put REAL TIME GAME IN HUGE BLOODY LETTERING - 2/27/2009 10:51:01 AM   
nietsche

 

Posts: 55
Joined: 11/25/2008
From: Ozzieland
Status: offline 		Best way I can describe this game is that you make deliberate tactical decisions in a real time battle that requires your attention in many spots on the map. The AI takes care of some details for you and you have to be good at judging where you place your greatest attention. This is like a company or battalion command in reality. Realism exists but is not so intrusive as to make it impossible to play.

Then you have a whole strategic layer on top of that where you take risks according to your confidence in winning or losing individual battles. You do allocate direct tactical support fire at this level. You take on a Brigade, Divisional and Corps role at that level. Supply lines and isolation affect your performance but you do not need to micromanage details.

That diversity and the linked nature of the campaigns (somewhat open ended) is what appeals to me. I an totally uninterested in the kind of shoot-em-up games that teenage boys like so much :p

Give it a go - what have you got to lose except weeks of sleep over the next 3 months

< Message edited by nietsche -- 2/27/2009 10:52:35 AM >

_____________________________

Hard work is a good way to succeed. There is less competition that way...

(in reply to Senior Drill)
Post #: 28
RE: Put REAL TIME GAME IN HUGE BLOODY LETTERING - 2/27/2009 9:58:45 PM   
TheReal_Pak40

 

Posts: 186
Joined: 10/8/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Senior Drill

Sorry, Pak40, but that and other variations have been used over the years to try to explain the difference between the CC series and other RTS games. Real Time Tactical was used in a couple of press releases and elicited thunderous yawns of incomprehension.


damn, but did they copyright it?

quote:


The problem has and continues to be that Close Combat doesn't fit into the game industry niches and no one has been able to adequately create the niche title that adequately describes the CC system, hence all the confusion and claims of "click fest" by those not in the know when told it is RTS. Close Combat battles are "come as you are" with whatever you managed to set up for that Battle Group on the Stratigic level and it is fight it through to the bitter end or quit and have to start again from that battle's beginning.


Yea, I absolutely agree. However, CC has carved it's own little niche over the years. While the mainstream gaming community certainly hasn't blinked an eye over CC, the wargaming community has. And even though the only other successful games that have followed in CC's footsteps are CMx2 and maybe ToW, there is a definite niche for RTT.

Hey, how about RTRC - Real Time Realistic Combat? Has that been used yet?

(in reply to Senior Drill)
Post #: 29
RE: Put REAL TIME GAME IN HUGE BLOODY LETTERING - 2/27/2009 10:52:43 PM   
Platoon_Michael


Posts: 1119
Joined: 3/9/2003
Status: offline
quote:

The problem has and continues to be that Close Combat doesn't fit into the game industry niches and no one has been able to adequately create the niche title that adequately describes the CC system, hence all the confusion and claims of "click fest" by those not in the know when told it is RTS. Close Combat battles are "come as you are" with whatever you managed to set up for that Battle Group on the Stratigic level and it is fight it through to the bitter end or quit and have to start again from that battle's beginning.



Just like when Chess fell out of popularity.Nobody seems to have a thinking mans game anymore.
Nobody seems to want to think outside of the box they just make games based on the same old crap that has been made over and over and over again.
I assume it’s because of all the  brain dead kids who cant think past kill this kill that find this find that.The old I need it faster "NOW" theory.
I don’t play every game but I do play a lot of games (money permitting) all you have to do is watch X-play on TV and you’ll see it for yourself.(its always the same)Maybe I need more info on what’s out there because I haven’t been able to find anything close to CC  since I found it.
Think of playing CC like playing Chess on a WWII scale with a little bit more pace and action.

And why cant I copy paste form the Matrix forums?
very annnoyyying when yuo ctn splee thta gdoo.


< Message edited by Platoon_Michael -- 2/27/2009 10:56:15 PM >

(in reply to TheReal_Pak40)
Post #: 30
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