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RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/17/2009 7:44:09 PM   
a1981stingray

 

Posts: 164
Joined: 8/28/2008
From: Kansas, USA
Status: offline 		I have spent countless hours of my life, for the past 14+ years, playing Carriers at War[1994], UV[2002], WitP[2004], and Battles in Normandy[2004].
 
I can honestly say that these games have provided way too many enjoyable hours of distraction. Please, wife, just 1 more turn...and 1 more turn after that turn...

If the issues [bugs/errors/wife] were a serious problem, I would have quit playing the games.

I know of hundreds of games that were released with issues and zero support and/or the company closed shortly afterwards.

I believe people continue to play Matrix Games with the same addiction that I do, and...

If Carrier Force provides anything like all the previous games, I will wait, uncomplainingly, to play Carrier Force.

IF they decide to create additional patches to the existing games, I will apply them to my games, and...

I will spend even more time / years playing these games until my computers can no longer support them [uh... Vista 2012+] or the wife rips the power cord from the wall [poof!!!].

On a final note:

Can anyone honestly say that CAW, UV, WitP, or BiN can be perfected?
Somebody somewhere will find something they perceive as an [issue].

In addition, will the software will be able to run on the latest computers, or will the operating systems no longer support the "coded language" of old applications?

I am very appreciative for what I have today, and what may become available tomorrow.

(in reply to wworld7)
Post #: 61
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/18/2009 1:36:04 AM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		perfect? no. Known bugs addressed? Yes

(in reply to a1981stingray)
Post #: 62
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/19/2009 2:28:17 AM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		Erik

can you please address the subject of a patch being needed for this game? Considering that it's sill being sold by Martix, I think the question is valid.

(in reply to borner)
Post #: 63
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/19/2009 7:50:08 AM   
RGIJN


Posts: 1057
Joined: 11/24/2006
From: far away from battlefield :-(
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: borner

Erik

can you please address the subject of a patch being needed for this game? Considering that it's sill being sold by Martix, I think the question is valid.


I do join this request.

(in reply to borner)
Post #: 64
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/19/2009 10:01:16 AM   
xj900uk

 

Posts: 1340
Joined: 3/22/2007
Status: offline 		And me. It's a great game, but the bugs around are absolutely infuriating the hell out of me!

(in reply to RGIJN)
Post #: 65
hello? - 2/20/2009 12:55:03 PM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		Would anyone from Matrix care to address this request?

(in reply to xj900uk)
Post #: 66
RE: hello? - 2/21/2009 1:57:52 PM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		Erik, or Matrix in General..... It is clear from your reaction to IKE's posts, that you do indeed read these forums. As such, I am at a loss to explain the lack of any type of reply to my question. Is UV still not being sold by Matrix. ( yes, I knwo the answer to this already), Is it also not accepted that the game still has bugs that need addressed? This is a huge concern. The fact that Matrix would release a product, continue to sell it, and then ignore bugs is shocking. Is this standard Matrix policy? I very much enjoy this game, but am tired of having to need in game work arounds to avoid some bugs. If this was something  matrix had discontinued it would be another story.


My last two games I have bought from your company, UV and EiA, are far from being de-bugged. I am looking forward to other products your company is working on WiF the most, but I have to wonder if the poor quality control will follow? Yes, I know that making such games is a huge undertaking. However when I pay $50/$60 or more for a product, I as a consumer, expect a quality game. If I went to BEst buy and bought a dryer that was defective, I would exchange it. If my Ford dealer sold me a truck with a bad water pump, they would repair it. Matrix seems to want to say that UV has "run it's course", and thank you for your money. This to me is professionally unacceptable.

So again, I ask, when will the bugs in UV be addressed?


(in reply to borner)
Post #: 67
RE: hello? - 2/21/2009 2:26:31 PM   
Mike Wood


Posts: 2095
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Oakland, California
Status: offline 		Hello...

Please list 'bugs'.

Thanks...

Michael Wood

quote:

ORIGINAL: borner

Erik, or Matrix in General..... It is clear from your reaction to IKE's posts, that you do indeed read these forums. As such, I am at a loss to explain the lack of any type of reply to my question. Is UV still not being sold by Matrix. ( yes, I knwo the answer to this already), Is it also not accepted that the game still has bugs that need addressed? This is a huge concern. The fact that Matrix would release a product, continue to sell it, and then ignore bugs is shocking. Is this standard Matrix policy? I very much enjoy this game, but am tired of having to need in game work arounds to avoid some bugs. If this was something  matrix had discontinued it would be another story.


My last two games I have bought from your company, UV and EiA, are far from being de-bugged. I am looking forward to other products your company is working on WiF the most, but I have to wonder if the poor quality control will follow? Yes, I know that making such games is a huge undertaking. However when I pay $50/$60 or more for a product, I as a consumer, expect a quality game. If I went to BEst buy and bought a dryer that was defective, I would exchange it. If my Ford dealer sold me a truck with a bad water pump, they would repair it. Matrix seems to want to say that UV has "run it's course", and thank you for your money. This to me is professionally unacceptable.

So again, I ask, when will the bugs in UV be addressed?




(in reply to borner)
Post #: 68
RE: hello? - 2/21/2009 2:33:25 PM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		You are kidding me, right? There are several threads here listing them, but off the top of my head are the issues with Japan loading transport convoys. late war Nell groups arriving empty, movement issues of TF's going far beyond the movement circles ( transport TF especailly. Air units not attacking a TF is a single AG is present. I will come up with additional ones when I get back home. I urge anyone else reading this to chime in as well with what they are seeing! 

(in reply to Mike Wood)
Post #: 69
RE: hello? - 2/21/2009 4:01:43 PM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		Let me add fighters for Japan set on Long range cap changing orders to escort or sweep

(in reply to borner)
Post #: 70
RE: hello? - 2/21/2009 7:32:52 PM   
Joe D.


Posts: 4004
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Wood
Hello...

Please list 'bugs'.

Thanks...

Michael Wood


I know that most UV issues were addressed in V2.5, but since you asked:
Loading units for Fast Transport is always haphazard, if not hit-and-miss.

Even loading units for regular transport unto APs is "iffy" unless you load these ships one at a time, and then form the TF.

Finally, as we all know, level bombers are way too accurate w/bombs vs. ships at altitude.

_____________________________

Stratford, Connecticut, U.S.A.

"The Angel of Okinawa"

Home of the Chance-Vought Corsair, F4U
The best fighter-bomber of World War II

(in reply to Mike Wood)
Post #: 71
RE: hello? - 2/22/2009 12:33:50 AM   
Mike Wood


Posts: 2095
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Oakland, California
Status: offline 		Hello...

"Bombers are too accurate", is not a bug. It works the way the programmer intended. You might argue that it is a design flaw. It is a little late to be redesigning the game, however.

I have no idea what "loading units being 'iffy'", means.

I have never heard of fighter groups changing orders from long range combat air patrol to sweep or escort. Might be a bug. Would need a save from the turn before it occurred.

I do not know the conditions under which a group might arrive without aircraft. It did happen historically. The case to which you refer may have been the intention of the scenario author or there may have been too few planes in the pool. Don't know. Would need more specifics to say. I can guarantee that it is not a bug. But, would be willing to look at it.

Not sure what is meant by, "movement issues of TF's going far beyond the movement circles".

Not sure what the sentence fragment, "Air units not attacking a TF is a single AG is present" means. Seems non sequitor.

Please see my new thread on bug reporting.

Thanks...

Michael Wood

(in reply to Joe D.)
Post #: 72
RE: hello? - 2/22/2009 1:05:12 AM   
Kingfisher

 

Posts: 234
Joined: 6/16/2008
Status: offline
quote:


Not sure what the sentence fragment, "Air units not attacking a TF is a single AG is present" means. Seems non sequitor.


I believe this refers to the practice of adding a barge to a transport TF. For some reason air units will not strike barges (unless the altitude is set to 100 ft), so adding a barge will give the TF an unrealistic level of protection.

_____________________________

"splendid was their tactic of diving upon our force from the direction of the sun, taking advantage of intermittent clouds"

-Captain Takahisa Amagai, KAGA, June 4th 1942

(in reply to Mike Wood)
Post #: 73
RE: hello? - 2/22/2009 1:14:27 AM   
Mike Wood


Posts: 2095
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Oakland, California
Status: offline 		Hello...

This would not be a bug, but a really bad design flaw. I will test it and if true, will fix it. Do not need a save for this one. Oh, and I just addressed the bombers too accurate issue. Maybe not to the satisfaction of the complainant, but I found a realistic feature I could add, without breaking the basic game design.

Thanks a lot...

Michael Wood

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kingfisher


quote:


Not sure what the sentence fragment, "Air units not attacking a TF is a single AG is present" means. Seems non sequitor.


I believe this refers to the practice of adding a barge to a transport TF. For some reason air units will not strike barges (unless the altitude is set to 100 ft), so adding a barge will give the TF an unrealistic level of protection.



< Message edited by Mike Wood -- 2/22/2009 1:16:06 AM >

(in reply to Kingfisher)
Post #: 74
RE: hello? - 2/22/2009 2:08:23 AM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		ok, then lets discuss both bugs and design flaws in an effort to correct glaring problems with a currently sold product.

Mike, with respect, it seems to tone of your email is to imply that there are no bugs, and I am others are making up issues.

(in reply to Mike Wood)
Post #: 75
RE: hello? - 2/22/2009 2:45:04 AM   
Mike Wood


Posts: 2095
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Oakland, California
Status: offline 		Hello...

No, just that some folk combine bugs, misunderstanding of the rules and game design disagreements and call them all bugs. As a programmer, I see a bug in a different light than game design issues. I can fix a bug, as it is something I did not intend. A game design feature could be something I intended and will not change or something I could change if players requested, although changing a game design feature could please one group of folk while angering another. Many game design changes could and would cause a significant number of real bugs and would require a testing team to determine overall game effects. I have no testing team. Some reported bugs are just rules a player does not understand or does not like. I have to make these distinctions as the various issues must be treated differently.

I am not saying there are no bugs. I am saying that a player may consider a game behavior a bug, when it is not.

Hope this helps clear up my viewpoint...

Michael Wood

quote:

ORIGINAL: borner

ok, then lets discuss both bugs and design flaws in an effort to correct glaring problems with a currently sold product.

Mike, with respect, it seems to tone of your email is to imply that there are no bugs, and I am others are making up issues.


(in reply to borner)
Post #: 76
RE: hello? - 2/22/2009 3:49:26 AM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		Good point. My Apologies for making that assumption.


(in reply to Mike Wood)
Post #: 77
RE: hello? - 2/22/2009 12:30:30 PM   
Joe D.


Posts: 4004
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Wood

I have no idea what "loading units being 'iffy'", means ...


Look at the context:

"... Loading units for Fast Transport is always haphazard, if not hit-and-miss.

Even loading units for regular transport unto APs is "iffy" unless you load these ships one at a time, and then form the TF."

Many times troops won't load on to a surface fleet set for fast transport, and when you attempt to load a TF of APs/AKs w/troops and supplies, not all the ships will load; it was suggested to load each ship separately and then form the TF, but that's very time consuming.

Or are these more design flaws?

_____________________________

Stratford, Connecticut, U.S.A.

"The Angel of Okinawa"

Home of the Chance-Vought Corsair, F4U
The best fighter-bomber of World War II

(in reply to Mike Wood)
Post #: 78
RE: hello? - 2/22/2009 1:38:52 PM   
Mike Wood


Posts: 2095
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Oakland, California
Status: offline 		Hello...

Nope. Should load, if troops available and ships have available operational points. So, if some of the ships have refueled that turn, they may not be able to load, because they have used all Ops points. Will need to determine problem, so need save and bug report, to fix.

Thanks...

Michael Wood

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Wood

I have no idea what "loading units being 'iffy'", means ...


Look at the context:

"... Loading units for Fast Transport is always haphazard, if not hit-and-miss.

Even loading units for regular transport unto APs is "iffy" unless you load these ships one at a time, and then form the TF."

Many times troops won't load on to a surface fleet set for fast transport, and when you attempt to load a TF of APs/AKs w/troops and supplies, not all the ships will load; it was suggested to load each ship separately and then form the TF, but that's very time consuming.

Or are these more design flaws?



< Message edited by Mike Wood -- 2/22/2009 1:43:58 PM >

(in reply to Joe D.)
Post #: 79
RE: hello? - 2/22/2009 6:13:32 PM   
Joe D.


Posts: 4004
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Wood

... So, if some of the ships have refueled that turn, they may not be able to load, because they have used all Ops points.


Is this explained in the UV (pdf) manual?
If I click on the transport, where on the screen can I find its Op Points?

_____________________________

Stratford, Connecticut, U.S.A.

"The Angel of Okinawa"

Home of the Chance-Vought Corsair, F4U
The best fighter-bomber of World War II

(in reply to Mike Wood)
Post #: 80
RE: hello? - 2/22/2009 10:15:08 PM   
Kingfisher

 

Posts: 234
Joined: 6/16/2008
Status: offline 		It shows up in the task force screen just to the right of the ship's speed column.

_____________________________

"splendid was their tactic of diving upon our force from the direction of the sun, taking advantage of intermittent clouds"

-Captain Takahisa Amagai, KAGA, June 4th 1942

(in reply to Joe D.)
Post #: 81
RE: hello? - 2/23/2009 12:09:24 AM   
Joe D.


Posts: 4004
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
Status: offline 		Tnx; there must also be something in the manual.

_____________________________

Stratford, Connecticut, U.S.A.

"The Angel of Okinawa"

Home of the Chance-Vought Corsair, F4U
The best fighter-bomber of World War II

(in reply to Kingfisher)
Post #: 82
RE: hello? - 2/23/2009 12:47:03 AM   
Joe D.


Posts: 4004
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

Tnx; there must also be something in the manual.


8.17 Operation Points

Operation Points reflect the time spent on refueling, replenishing ammo, and loading and unloading of cargo. These actions reduce the movement of a TF during a Resolution Phase ....

It looks like these points affect time spent loading/unloading and not whether loading occurs or not.
Anyway, here's the rest of the explantion.

During an Orders Phase, if a TF refuels or is ordered to load troops, the TF Information Screen will reflect the amount of time already used in Operation Points. Every TF has 1000 Operation Points in each 12 hour Resolution Phase. Thus, if a TF refuels and the display shows a ship has used 300 Operation Points, 30% of the 12 hours (300/1000) has been expended. This means the Task Forces speed in hexes will be reduced by 30% for the first 12 hour Resolution Phase resolved after exiting the Orders Phase. If a ship has any ammo replenished, it will use 1000 Operation Points. Ships that use 1000 Op points will still be allowed to move a minimum of 1 hex in the phase.

_____________________________

Stratford, Connecticut, U.S.A.

"The Angel of Okinawa"

Home of the Chance-Vought Corsair, F4U
The best fighter-bomber of World War II

(in reply to Joe D.)
Post #: 83
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/23/2009 2:17:22 PM   
Chad Harrison


Posts: 1395
Joined: 4/2/2003
From: Boise, ID - USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

Seriously, the impression I got from Justin's post was that CF will be much more than a "patch" to UV. To me, this is much better than just "patching" UV and I look forward to it. As I know I will need something lighter than WITP-AE which when released may fry my mind...


CF is *NOT* a patch to UV. Its different/updated/changed in so, so many ways. Including, but not limited too, new art, new map, new 15 minute mode (thats the biggie!), new aircraft, new features and so on. But, since it is built onto the UV code, it will correct/modify some (all?) of the outstanding features from UV.

When I said that it is the closest thing to a patch UV will see, I meant that I didnt think any patches were forthcoming for UV and any outstanding issues would be addressed in CF, which is a separate game.

But given Mike's recent posts, and my lack of official knowledge as a beta tester, UV very well might see a patch.

(in reply to wworld7)
Post #: 84
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/23/2009 2:24:35 PM   
Mike Wood


Posts: 2095
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Oakland, California
Status: offline 		Hello...

Yup. It might. Final word on that would be above my paygrade, however.

Bye...

Michael Wood

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison
But given Mike's recent posts, and my lack of official knowledge as a beta tester, UV very well might see a patch.


(in reply to Chad Harrison)
Post #: 85
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/23/2009 3:28:27 PM   
wworld7


Posts: 1727
Joined: 2/25/2003
From: The Nutmeg State
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison


quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

Seriously, the impression I got from Justin's post was that CF will be much more than a "patch" to UV. To me, this is much better than just "patching" UV and I look forward to it. As I know I will need something lighter than WITP-AE which when released may fry my mind...


CF is *NOT* a patch to UV. Its different/updated/changed in so, so many ways. Including, but not limited too, new art, new map, new 15 minute mode (thats the biggie!), new aircraft, new features and so on. But, since it is built onto the UV code, it will correct/modify some (all?) of the outstanding features from UV.

When I said that it is the closest thing to a patch UV will see, I meant that I didnt think any patches were forthcoming for UV and any outstanding issues would be addressed in CF, which is a separate game.

But given Mike's recent posts, and my lack of official knowledge as a beta tester, UV very well might see a patch.


Chad,

Perhaps my phrasing was poor and you misunderstood what I meant.

I know CF is not a patch for UV, and THAT is why I am looking forward to CF so much.

Another patch for UV is fine I would think. Unless fixing bugs leads down a never ending road of design changes, which in turn leads to more bugs and complaints.





_____________________________

Flipper

(in reply to Chad Harrison)
Post #: 86
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/23/2009 4:43:34 PM   
Joe D.


Posts: 4004
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison
CF is *NOT* a patch to UV. Its different/updated/changed in so, so many ways. Including, but not limited too, new art, new map, new 15 minute mode (thats the biggie!), new aircraft, new features and so on. But, since it is built onto the UV code, it will correct/modify some (all?) of the outstanding features from UV ...


That's what I'm waiting for; for me, CF is the equivalent of WitP's AE.

I understood that the "15 min" feature was an option, and CF could be played in just the "old" UV mode.


_____________________________

Stratford, Connecticut, U.S.A.

"The Angel of Okinawa"

Home of the Chance-Vought Corsair, F4U
The best fighter-bomber of World War II

(in reply to Chad Harrison)
Post #: 87
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/23/2009 5:35:21 PM   
Chad Harrison


Posts: 1395
Joined: 4/2/2003
From: Boise, ID - USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

I understood that the "15 min" feature was an option, and CF could be played in just the "old" UV mode.



In my testing, I have not seen an option to do so. This may exist in the code, but is not implemented yet. Regardless, I have not seen it.

quote:



That's what I'm waiting for; for me, CF is the equivalent of WitP's AE.



And that is a spot on assessment. Its still the core game, and the core gameplay, but you get *tons* of improvements and new options. The one major difference between AE and CF though is CF adds a significant new gameplay features (15 minute gameplay, flight decks, airfield control and so on) that were not possible in UV.

Dont get me wrong, AE is going to be ground breaking, and I will be first in line to get it. But, much like UV and WitP, CF and AE are different in so many ways and both have unique appeals, scope and strengths. Anyone who has played both UV and WitP knows exactly what I am talking about. Some prefer UV over WitP, others prefer WitP over UV. Thats the beauty of personal prefence

Obviously the focus for the 15 minute gameplay mode is the air combat, but dont forget that your surface combats are happening within the 15 minute rounds also . . .

< Message edited by Chad Harrison -- 2/23/2009 5:38:34 PM >

(in reply to Joe D.)
Post #: 88
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/23/2009 10:39:18 PM   
Mike Wood


Posts: 2095
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Oakland, California
Status: offline 		There is much you have not seen, grasshopper.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison
In my testing, I have not seen an option to do so. This may exist in the code, but is not implemented yet. Regardless, I have not seen it.


(in reply to Chad Harrison)
Post #: 89
RE: Carrier Force - Matrix Games - 2/24/2009 9:37:35 AM   
xj900uk

 

Posts: 1340
Joined: 3/22/2007
Status: offline 		Another good improvement would be better squadron management - whether or not you can receive trained or untrained replacement pilots (which I believe exists in WIP), & also if you can switch the 'upgrade to new planes' on or off (which also may well exist in WIP).
Both of these features would certainly enhance UV!

(in reply to Mike Wood)
Post #: 90
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