RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE

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RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 2/28/2009 12:50:12 AM

GShock

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Can't believe peeps keep buying the newest mod of Shogun Total war every time CA releases it.

I'm still trying to figure out how possible when all the mods u find for M2TW give strong penalties to the player so crappy the AI is...ah, let's not forget there's no multiplayer campaign...and after 2 patches, off we go, to a new mod of the same old thing...
<ding>

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Post #: 31

RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 3/1/2009 3:55:45 PM

Wahoo

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Honestly and sadly, I'm buying ETW, with it just a few days away I'll spend my money there, that game will be a lot more "fun" though not as challenging and history focus (which I love). I thought Matrix would have released this game at least a few weeks b/f ETW not three days b/f. I may buy this game in a few months, when/if I get tried of ETW.

(in reply to GShock)

Post #: 32

RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 3/1/2009 4:20:32 PM

L�tzow

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Well, I didn't play ETW demo as I won't let Steam on my rig. However, by watching footage on Youtube, first thing which came on my mind was, that precursor titles were impressive for their melee combat but TW with guns looks less exciting.

(in reply to Wahoo)

Post #: 33

RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 3/1/2009 5:22:14 PM

Gil R.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wahoo

Honestly and sadly, I'm buying ETW, with it just a few days away I'll spend my money there, that game will be a lot more "fun" though not as challenging and history focus (which I love). I thought Matrix would have released this game at least a few weeks b/f ETW not three days b/f. I may buy this game in a few months, when/if I get tried of ETW.

We were certainly aware of ETW's release date, but a few weeks ago it would have been a very buggy release and one without a manual. Customers tend to frown on that sort of thing, so we released the game when it was ready.

(in reply to Wahoo)

Post #: 34

RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 3/1/2009 5:26:33 PM

Erik Rutins

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From: Vermont, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wahoo
Honestly and sadly, I'm buying ETW, with it just a few days away I'll spend my money there, that game will be a lot more "fun" though not as challenging and history focus (which I love). I thought Matrix would have released this game at least a few weeks b/f ETW not three days b/f. I may buy this game in a few months, when/if I get tried of ETW.

Well, fun is what you make of it. I definitely enjoy the Total War games, but they do not scratch the same "itch" as a wargame like COG:EE does. With that said, we recognized that some customers would be trying to make an either/or decision here which is why we did try to get out the door first with the online release. If you love more historical play and a challenging AI, then you'll be back in time.

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Post #: 35

RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 3/1/2009 5:37:30 PM

Titanwarrior89

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I second that

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wahoo
Honestly and sadly, I'm buying ETW, with it just a few days away I'll spend my money there, that game will be a lot more "fun" though not as challenging and history focus (which I love). I thought Matrix would have released this game at least a few weeks b/f ETW not three days b/f. I may buy this game in a few months, when/if I get tried of ETW.

Well, fun is what you make of it. I definitely enjoy the Total War games, but they do not scratch the same "itch" as a wargame like COG:EE does. With that said, we recognized that some customers would be trying to make an either/or decision here which is why we did try to get out the door first with the online release. If you love more historical play and a challenging AI, then you'll be back in time.

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Post #: 36

RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 3/1/2009 6:07:54 PM

Johnus

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I have purchased EE, of course. And I will probably purchase ETW in due course. The games do not really compete with each other. EE is much more "grognardy" and attempts to recreate at least the illusion of history.

The TW games are fantasy games with historical costumes. This starts from the name on down. "Total War" is not something usually associated with either the middle ages or the 18th Century era of "limited warfare." I don't know enough about Japanese History to comment on Shogun TW. Nor are the world conquering campaigns typical of the eras. The battles are fun; and the campaign provide a "context" for the battles.

I usually play one long world conquering campaign with a TW game and then tire of it. That game usually lasts for weeks and justifies the purchase price.

I'm sure, however, that I'll go back to EE often. Whenever I read a book on the Napoleonic era, I get the fever again. I also love the way the game is structured. Like FOF, just when you get tired of the strategic game a detailed battle comes up and vice versa.

(in reply to Titanwarrior89)

Post #: 37

RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 3/1/2009 6:28:46 PM

Mus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GShock

Can't believe peeps keep buying the newest mod of Shogun Total war every time CA releases it.�

Do me a favor and dont compare any total war games frome Rome onwards to Shogun, which was an excellent and EXTREMELY well balanced game.

< Message edited by Mus -- 3/1/2009 6:29:36 PM >

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Post #: 38

RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 3/2/2009 12:27:28 AM

sol_invictus

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I will certainly get both. ETW for some light fun and GOG:EE for some serious grognard fun.

< Message edited by Arinvald -- 3/2/2009 12:30:46 AM >

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Post #: 39

RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 3/2/2009 12:37:30 AM

Titanwarrior89

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The Totalwar series are actually fun to play but their not for serious wargaming. Ive bought and played all but I will not buy Empire totalwar. Mainly due to Steam. If all games-wargames included are coming to that(DRM's)then I'll go back to boardgaming. Which I still do anyway.

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Post #: 40

RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 3/2/2009 1:13:49 AM

tgb

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wahoo

Honestly and sadly, I'm buying ETW, with it just a few days away I'll spend my money there, that game will be a lot more "fun" though not as challenging and history focus (which I love). I thought Matrix would have released this game at least a few weeks b/f ETW not three days b/f. I may buy this game in a few months, when/if I get tried of ETW.

We were certainly aware of ETW's release date, but a few weeks ago it would have been a very buggy release and one without a manual. Customers tend to frown on that sort of thing, so we released the game when it was ready.

You might want to explain that concept to your pals at Ageod (WWI)

< Message edited by tgb -- 3/2/2009 1:15:28 AM >

(in reply to Gil R.)

Post #: 41

RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 3/3/2009 1:34:29 AM

bssybeep

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COG:EE for me. Naval battles and serial# only drm directed my cash to Matrix. Steam only drm for ETW makes that a no purchase for me.

ETW and Dawn of War 2 going mandatory Steam drm is great for my budget. Since I refuse to "rent" games, I have no urge to buy them.

(in reply to tgb)

Post #: 42

RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 3/4/2009 7:57:33 PM

henri51

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I have both versions of COG, will buy ETW (it comes out in Canada tomorrow Future Shop said - EB is next week), and I got the demo today. I have all of the total war games, and as some have pointed out, there are modes for Medieval and Rome that make the games much more realistic. (And no, I don't like Steam either and yes , I got the demo anyway).

Both games have their advantages and disadvantages. Yes, Total War has better graphics (much!!!) and MAY be a bit less historical. Both games have naval combat, and the naval combat of Empire seems about as good as that of COG. At least I can cross the T in Empire, but I have never been able to do that in COG.

I am not crazy about the real time battles of TW, because they usually end up in total confusion for me, which is what happened the first time I played the two available battles, and I got my butt kicked all the way...

But the second time around, I managed to eek out a victory in the land battle with the British by using the crossing that the British didn't find in reality.Then I simply cencentrated my superior forces and beat down the Americans piecemeal. I did lose my two cannons somehow, though (don't ask me how or where...).I could do that because the battle can be divided into phases:1) get to the crossing,2) beat the few Americans who show up to oppose you, 3) concentrate against the American main force that eventually shows up and beat them with superior numbers and firepower, 4) march up the valley and capture the town while sweeping aside any opposition, 5) concentrate again and go wipe out the remainder of the enemy.

There is no strategic map in the demo, but I presume it looks somewhat like the Medieval one, except that it has to have India and America (maybe on separate maps?).

In most Total War games, I play exclusively on the strategic map and automatically resolve the battles (which I almost always win due to superior forces...).I disagree with those that say the TW strategic maps are a joke. They may be less realistic for strategic purposes, but at least one can tell which provinces belong to whom, which is difficult in COG.And they did do away with the annoying TW merchants in Empire, where they say commerce is run with routes as should be the case.

And why is it that the TW people can come out with a completely new engine each time whereas COG still has its tired old 2004 engine and low resolution? The "improved" map graphics of COG are not an improvement for me - I would rather have solid colored areas that clearly show to whomo each area belongs and what is in there.

Both games have plenty to satisfy the wargamer, and if you can afford it, do like me, swallow hard about Steam and get both (geez and I also play Warhammer and World of Warcraft online!....). Both are worth buying and playing, and both should be fun.

Henri

(in reply to bssybeep)

Post #: 43

RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 3/4/2009 8:15:34 PM

PDiFolco

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I like your statement henri51 : "combat ends up in Total Confusion".
That's right on spot : the whole series after Shogun is "Total Confusion" with different historical costumes.

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Post #: 44

RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 3/4/2009 8:53:54 PM

Erik Rutins

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Ok, let's not get to bashing Total War, they are very fun games and an impressive achievement by the developers. Compare and contrast without bashing please.

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Post #: 45

RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 3/4/2009 8:58:02 PM

Terminus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bssybeep

COG:EE for me.� Naval battles and serial# only drm directed my cash to Matrix.� Steam only drm for ETW makes that a no purchase for me.

ETW and Dawn of War 2 going mandatory Steam drm is great for my budget.� Since I refuse to "rent" games, I have no urge to buy them.

Actually, DoW 2 is a good game, and the Steam activation scheme is minimally invasive. Nobody is forcing you to buy it VIA Steam, you know. Same goes for ETW. Seems to me there's plenty of room for both types of game...

Anyway, I'm still vacillating about CoG: EE. What with AE and that pesky Real Life(TM)...

< Message edited by Terminus -- 3/4/2009 9:02:52 PM >

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Post #: 46

RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 3/4/2009 9:12:05 PM

henri51

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

... and the Steam activation scheme is minimally invasive. Nobody is forcing you to buy it VIA Steam, you know. Same goes for ETW.

No, the website says you will need steam to activate the boxed version (If I understood right). I do agree that Steam is not that big a deal, although I don't like it either. But it is easy to install, works well and as you say, it is minimally invasive (as far as I can tell....

)

Personally as I said above I am not crazy about real time battles, because although you can pause, there is too much to do, and it is too easy to overlook something important or to miss the bad result of a bad decision, not to mention not knowing exactly how a unit is going to carry out your orders. In reality, the local commander (say of a brigade) could act in real time on his brigade when things were not going according to plan. Turn-based play - although it has its disadvantages - allows the player to simulate this by successively putting himself in the skin of various local commanders as well as the overall commander.Both real time and turn-based have their degree of unrealism, but because of my slow reaction time, I tgend to prefer turn based.

In both games, sea battles drive me nuts. because while I am twiddling one ship to aim it in just the right way so that I can let loose a broadside on a target, in the meantime I have lost 3 ships to the enemy

Henri

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Post #: 47

RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 3/4/2009 9:14:27 PM

Terminus

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That last one is my major concern about the naval battles in ETW, and why I like the idea of detailed fleet action in CoG: EE better. Turn-based...

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Post #: 48

RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 3/4/2009 9:19:35 PM

tgb

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As big a CoG;EE booster as I am here and elsewhere, I downloaded E:TW, started up the tutorial, and am enjoying it. The campaign is a lot deeper than previous in the series.

Add me to the list of people who have no problem with Steam activation. As long as there is no limit to the number of installs, I don't see a big deal.

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Post #: 49

RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 3/5/2009 8:50:17 PM

henri51

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Got the boxed version: 3DVDs, no printed manual, 15 GB required on disk, manual on disk 3, but only 37 pages.

Besides the grand campaign with a lot of new features, there is a US campaign starting with the foundation of the first colony where you have to do a series of quests to open the next series.I guess it goes all the way to the US revolution, but I have only reached the point where you start to massacre the Indians

Although I have all the previous versions of TW, I am a bit confused, because the tech trees etc are quite different than before, and there is no tutorial for the strategy map. A map of the tech trees IS in the box though, and the advisor gives quite detailed instructions.However there is no indication of which nation is easiest to play, although one can adjust the difficulty settings - which start out the same for all nations.

Just when I was in the middle of a COG battle with Napoleon against the Austrians too (I think I was winning, but anyway I saved the game).

Oh yes, if you haven't played the demo, one impressive thing is to see cannonballs bouncing along the ground after they miss the enemy

Henri

(in reply to tgb)

Post #: 50

RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 3/6/2009 12:11:08 AM

dude

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I was planning on buying both TW and COGEE but I'm having so much fun with COG that I'm not planning on buying TW for now. I've owned all the TW games since Sho Gun but I may end up skipping this one (at least until I find myself bored again and looking for a new game.) COGEE has everything I want; strategic map, tactical battles, navel battles, diplomacy... and it's turn based to boot!

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RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 3/6/2009 2:16:34 AM

Dreadnaught

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dude

I was planning on buying both TW and COGEE but I'm having so much fun with COG that I'm not planning on buying TW for now.� I've owned all the TW games since Sho Gun but I may end up skipping this one (at least until I find myself bored again and looking for a new game.)� COGEE has everything I want; strategic map, tactical battles, navel battles, diplomacy... and it's turn based to boot!

Im in the same boat here. Only TW game I did not buy was the Alexander expansion for rome. Like you said, CoG:EE is keeping me busy at least until some good mods for ETW come out.

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Post #: 52

RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 3/6/2009 3:39:45 AM

henri51

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I was just playing some naval battles with ETW. Does COG have command to give formations to a group of ships? IN ETW, I canput my ships in line and either cross the T or go right through the middle of the enemy line while rfaking them through the bow and stern. I haven't figured out how to do that in COG...

With this tactic, in an equal fight of 8 ships each, I sank 8 enemies and lost only one ship

Henri

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Post #: 53

RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 3/6/2009 8:52:48 AM

Joram

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Since CoG:EE is a turn based game, it is up to you to decide and maintain the formation.

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Post #: 54

RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 3/7/2009 12:49:59 AM

madgamer2

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Not to change the subject but I really love the period covered in this game and the game in general. I bought and tried to have fun with FoF which was based on CoG but it just did not make sense to my old brain even after the patch(s). I found the economic system and the upgrade of units just to hard to handle.
The game never did feel like or play like the American Civil War. I love the Napoleonic period but the game sounds from what I read to be better than FoF but the detailed combat could have massive battles like fighting for Moscow and I had a real problem with the detailed combat in FoF.

So do you think that with the simpler economic system and better overall game interface I could learn to like it as much as I want. I mean I REALLY wanted to like FoF but the long hours of trying to play just lead to frustration. It is possible that they have brought they system from CoG-Fof to CoG EE to the point my old brain may have a chance. what do you think?

Madgamer

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Post #: 55

RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 3/7/2009 7:50:44 AM

Joram

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Madgamer, I'm a huge advocate of the simple economy. I never fully grokked (yes, I'm a geek) the economy in original CoG and now, it's not even an issue. You really only have to manage one resource and province upgrades are very minimal too. Besides supply, you only have to keep track of draft rate and merchants (for some nations). Supply concerns are usually obvious as you build your depots to keep your armies in supply. Your toughest choices will be in figuring out if you can really afford a supply chain all the way to Moscow (or vice versa!) or can you really supply that army on a second front. Those are issues you would face anyway so in simple economy, you really are presented with a lot less to worry about.

If that's your main concern, then I do strongly believe that that concern is no longer an issue. It's not to say that CoGEE still isn't a complex game but in simple economy you can really focus your thought on land and naval war.

(in reply to madgamer2)

Post #: 56

RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 3/8/2009 12:31:07 AM

henri51

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ONe BIG difference between the two games is the nomber of postings on the forums. ETW has about 4 pages of posts every hour; every time I post a short message, when I come back to the thread there are usually already 3 or 4 new ones that weren't there when Istarted to write.

As expected, the comments range from ecstatic to "I want my money back", but the "official" reviews are clearly putting ETW much higher than the best game of last year (whatever that means

).

I am playing both games (ETW and COG) along with bouts of NHL 09 Hockey, and I like them both

. Although I have played all previous versions of TW, this one is considerably different and more difficult to play, especially the strategy map part. One can't just walk around and conquer all the surrounding territories like I used to to in MTW. Trade and treaties play a much more important role, the techtree requires schools and is slow if you have only one like the Netherlands does, and there are multiple maps to complicate the lives of those with imperialistic leanings.

Anyway, I think I am almost ready to tackle the advanced economy in COG...

Henri

(in reply to Joram)

Post #: 57

RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 3/9/2009 2:53:35 AM

IronWarrior

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lol I can't believe there's even a discussion about this. How can I put it delicately without bashing or offending? I mean there's nothing wrong with a beer and pretzels game if done well and fun. My beef with the TW series is that the AI is horrible even though that has been the focus of their games and have had years to work on it. I prefer mp so no problem, except that the mp part of their games is treated like an afterthought. Try playing a friend using realistic tactics and combined arms, but have your friend pick all one unit type, pile all of his forces on top of each other, select all, and attack. Guess who wins? I guess some people like this stuff, whatever.

Now if you'll excuse me, I just found out COG:EE has been released and need to go make a purchase.

(in reply to henri51)

Post #: 58

RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 3/10/2009 7:33:38 AM

Gil R.

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I meant to post this a few days ago but forgot. For those of you who don't frequent wargamer.com, here are some very interesting thoughts from son_of_montfort about COG:EE and E:TW: http://www.wargamer.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=338300

(in reply to IronWarrior)

Post #: 59

RE: Empire Total war VS CoG: EE - 3/10/2009 11:26:17 AM

ant1815

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wahoo

Honestly and sadly, I'm buying ETW, with it just a few days away I'll spend my money there, that game will be a lot more "fun" though not as challenging and history focus (which I love). I thought Matrix would have released this game at least a few weeks b/f ETW not three days b/f. I may buy this game in a few months, when/if I get tried of ETW.

We were certainly aware of ETW's release date, but a few weeks ago it would have been a very buggy release and one without a manual. Customers tend to frown on that sort of thing, so we released the game when it was ready.

It would have been perfect to compete with ETW then. I made the mistake of buying ETW at the weekend and it's horribly bugged. I'm getting show stopping CTDs which make it unplayable for me.

It'll be a great game when it's finished but I'd advise people that are thinking of buying it to wait at least a month or so for a couple of patches for it.

Brownie points to CoGEE for at least releasing it in a rather more finished state.

(in reply to Gil R.)

Post #: 60