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Demo downloaded like crazy...but - 4/26/2002 9:18:12 PM

Paul Vebber

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From: Portsmouth RI
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...nobody seems to be impressed.

Unfortunately our STUN-DG demo experiment is not going rather well - with nearly 10,000 hits on the various DL sites, there has been no discernable increase in sales.

Anybody who downloaded the demo and were not impressed enough to buy care to discuss why they haven't pulled the trigger?

This is a "hot button" topic of late in the wargame community and we would really like to hear from the customers on the seeming disconnect between many who profess demos are key to their game buying decision and the effect releasing a demo has had on this particular game.

We thought this a perfect candidate to benefit form a demo - high critical acclaim but sluggish movement out the door. The most vocal of you tell us demos are key to your purchase decision, but lots of demos out the door - little effect on sales.

WAZZUP with that?

Post #: 1

- 4/26/2002 9:23:53 PM

Mojo

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I just haven't had time to play the demo yet. Sorry. I've been meaning to.........

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Post #: 2

Re: Demo downloaded like crazy...but - 4/26/2002 10:44:50 PM

Henri

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Paul Vebber
[B]

We thought this a perfect candidate to benefit form a demo - high critical acclaim but sluggish movement out the door. The most vocal of you tell us demos are key to your purchase decision, but lots of demos out the door - little effect on sales.

WAZZUP with that? [/B][/QUOTE]

I downloaded the demo and played it last night and ordered the game today.

However I think that the demo is too short, In a few games I never met the opposition except for planet sentinels, didn't even have time to build a combat ship so have no idea how combat is. I ordered the game mostly based on reviews.

Also the lack of a tutorial or manual makes the game very difficult to play. I would guess than a number of people gave up after some time trying to understand the interface.

The download locked up during download while allegedly loading some fonts. However the game worked anyway after I alt-control del-ed the download. Was there supposed to be a manual or tutorial? There was none, and the help information is not enough except for some like me who absolutely want to see how it works.

The most I managed to do with the demo is build a couple of scouts, research a couple of improvements and explore a few nearby systems and gather a few artifacts while the AI built a couple of freighters and automatically sent them gathering whatever they gather. I am sure that the reviewers were impressed by a lot more than this...

I might not have bought the game based on the demo, without being influenced by the reviews.

Henri

(in reply to Paul Vebber)

Post #: 3

- 4/27/2002 12:15:26 AM

madmax88

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It might have been easier and faster to release a demo of sudg limited to the atomic age (1st age) with no time limit and no save. Would have given players the opportunity to testdrive the game a bit more thoroughly.
Most players constantly "fantasize" about bigger tech trees for the game. Fortunately, sudg doesn't even require new graphics to do that.

But basically, it might just be the "single player" aspect of the game that makes it so uninteresting to Matrix's usual players.
:o ;)

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Post #: 4

- 4/27/2002 1:22:45 AM

Synicism

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From: South Pasadena, CA
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I downloaded the demo. I have been playing STUN since it first came out (got it as a gift). I was so looking forward to playing STUN2. I was scared of buying because I was afraid it would be the same as STUN with better graphics, and with no demo and nobody in these forums can answer what was all that different I never ordered. Now that I have tried the demo I have 2 reasons why it didn't grab me right away:

- The demo is too short IMHO I didn't even meet another race
in the 50 turns I played. I didn't fight anything except the ships
guarding the planets. I couldn't research all that much. I
agree with the other poster, maybe make it so you can't save
and allow you to play longer would help. I didn't get to see
what changes STUN2 had over STUN.

- But my biggest problem with STUN2 is even in the 50 turns I
played it just seemed the same as STUN, with better graphics.
Maybe the tech tree is bigger and maybe the AI is better I
never got to see these changes I will never know. The extra
stuff added seems like it doesn't change the game all that much
(don't flame me I have only played 50 turns) Maybe a clear list
of what additions have been made to STUN2 would help people
like me who are 'sitting on the fence' Another idea is to offer
a discount for those who have STUN.

- Lack of a printed manual. I like manuals, I like to look them over and read them. For a full price game, I feel it should be included. The main reason I bought SE4 GOLD when I already had SE4, was because GOLD came with a printed manual. I know it adds to the cost but I would be willing to pay a little more to get one.
Overall I guess, not that big of a deal for most people, I'm just
strange that way.

- A smaller issue is the lack of multiplayer. Playing against the
AI is fun, but for someone like me who already has STUN, this
would have made me buy it RIGHT AWAY. This is something I
can't do with STUN, this is something that would make it
worth the full price. I read all the talk in the forum about this
topic and I understand the game wasn't designed this way. But
my point is that a change this BIG is what I would be looking for
in a full price product. Like I said before as far as I can tell
STUN2 is the same as STUN with better graphics, a change like
this would put it into another class.

I'm a big supporter of Indie developers. I have a few games from Shrapnel (SE4 and RS2). I also have quite a few games from SPIDERWEB SOFTWARE. I like the fact you can get fast feedback and also the user forums and such are always fun. I just can't see the changes in STUN2 to be worth the full price of it, when I already have bought STUN. Maybe if the demo was longer it would show all the changes that make it worth the full price you are charging. I might still end up buying it but it didn't grab me like RS2 and SE4 did from Shrapnel, and still might get it to support the indie game developer scene.

I would love for someone to help convince me that the changes in STUN2 are worth it. Maybe someone who has played both can try.

Just my 2 cents on the issue. Feel free to debate.

(in reply to Paul Vebber)

Post #: 5

Pual - 4/27/2002 1:59:18 AM

Gary Tatro

Posts: 1213
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From: MA, US
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Paul Vebber
[B]...nobody seems to be impressed.

Unfortunately our STUN-DG demo experiment is not going rather well - with nearly 10,000 hits on the various DL sites, there has been no discernable increase in sales.

Anybody who downloaded the demo and were not impressed enough to buy care to discuss why they haven't pulled the trigger?

This is a "hot button" topic of late in the wargame community and we would really like to hear from the customers on the seeming disconnect between many who profess demos are key to their game buying decision and the effect releasing a demo has had on this particular game.

We thought this a perfect candidate to benefit form a demo - high critical acclaim but sluggish movement out the door. The most vocal of you tell us demos are key to your purchase decision, but lots of demos out the door - little effect on sales.

WAZZUP with that? [/B][/QUOTE]

Paul I downloaded the demo and played a game of it. Had the help option on and struggled through 50 turns. I had a difficult time navigating and figuring out what to do as far a builds and how to get my ship repaired, how to collect artifacts, and how to go to a specific planet in a specific system. I was unable to collect a wisdom artifact in one galaxy even though it was unguarded?

I think what turned me off was that just when I was starting to figure some things out, moving around and such(could not figure out the builds) was when the game ended. I have played a bunch of demo's and the ones that really turn me on are ones that allow me time to get the hang of the game and have a little fun before it ends.

I do not know if you extended the time limit to 150 turns that it would make a difference or not, I can tell you that if you did I would download it again and give it another try. I uninstalled it after one play. I feel that 50 turns just did not give me enough time to like the game.

As a final note, when am looking for another game I go looking on the review pages. I read a number of reviews from a number of game review pages and try to come up with a accurate idea of if I would like the game or not then I order it/buy it. Do demo's influence me much, I would have to say no(not a lot of good demos). Have I bought games because of the demo's, yes but only a few.

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Post #: 6

- 4/27/2002 2:25:26 AM

IronManBeta

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From: Burlington, Ontario
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I guess I was one of the people that downloaded and then disappeared. There were a few reasons and I'll try and sort them out a little.

1. The written introduction to the game indicating purpose and mechanics was inadequate. I read the 'tip' and some of the help screens. That was a start but nowhere near enough to get me over the hump of a whole new interface / game world / alternate reality. What I really need is a description of what the game is and what it sets out to portray that amounts to more than a paragraph or two. Five or six beatifully written pages is more like it. They should include a plausable reason to play the game, ie a goal assigned ('establish the preeminent galactic empire') and some sort of dilemma introduced ('find the other players before they find you'). Without it there is no real involvement or sense of immersion to hold my attention. Looking at it again, I can see that an attempt was made in all these departments, but it simply wasn't enough to hook me. Don't feel bad though, probably 90% of the games I have both demo'ed and bought over the last 20 years have gone unplayed for this same failing - I guess I have a high threshhold or something. Its like a book - if it doesn't hook me right away, it gets tossed and I'm on to the next thing.

2. The download page made the game sound really appealing and used the magic word "fun" which is something that as a matter of principle will cause me to download it. Pavlovian instinct. Like a lot of people, something fun in my life would be something of a new and really welcome change. Once the game was started I looked for the 'fun' part but could not find it. The graphics were definitely 'cool' (especially the planets) so clearly there was some great art contained here, and the user interface seemed unusually clear and well designed, but that was about it. The only other emotion I felt was confusion (what the heck am I doing, what should I be doing, and why should I be doing it to make this arbitrary gameworld make sense?) quickly shifting to annoyance (I've been looking at this thing for five minutes now and I'm starting to feel embarassed and inadequate because I haven't figured out even the basic mechanics yet). I used to play Reach for the Stars on my old Apple 2 way back when. That game was quite fun for a time, and I tried to mentally recreate that same feeling again with this game, but I gave up because I could not make this game work in time. Too much knowledge was assumed on my part. The disconnect was too big and I bailed instead. It was not fun.

3. I should mention also that the text fonts used on the display were also astonishingly hard on my 45 year old eyes. I read computer screens all day and this was the hardest text to read that I can remember since Bombing the Reich on my laptop (800 x 600 forced to a 1024 x 768 display is butt ugly!). Instead of effortlessly lifting info from the screen at a glance, I was forced to squint at every single word and puzzle out the meaning. It is ugly and unreadable, and I humbly suggest that you provide the user a choice of fonts with good old Arial being one of them. Guys, ornamental fonts like the one used in this game are extremely fatiguing to the eye and quickly lose all novelty appeal when overused.

4. More generally, when a person buys a game without seeing a demo first they have made an investment that they have to protect - it gives them quite an incentive to persevere until they get the hang of the game and start to have fun. The younger you are the more likely this is to happen since you have relatively more time than money. As you get older your fuse shortens noticeably and the waste of $ is less keenly felt. I buy lots of games to do my bit to support the hobby but have no regrets whatever tossing a game on the 'shelf of shame' just 10 minutes after plunking down $70 for it. (Hello Disciples II, Russo-German War, Fighting Steel, Age of Rifles, and many more.... Dollars are only dollars, but my time - darn it - is precious.) For the publisher my purchases all count as a sales, but if there are too many like me then the dearth of personal recommendations and buzz on the message boards means the game simply doesn't have legs and dies. It happens with books and movies all the time. The nice thing about a demo INHO is that it helps create 'buzz'. The sales that you lose to grumps like me would have been hollow, buzzless sales anyway. In the short run that is a clear loss to the publisher of much needed $. In the longer run, I'm not so sure. Having been burned by Company XYZ, how much of a hurry am I in to take a chance again? Do they want me as a customer just for this one game, or for their entire catalog to come? I honestly think that I would buy more games from a company that had demos available _over time_ rather than the opposite.

5. Hmmm. I seem to have gone off on a bit of rant here. For me to want to try the game again would not actually take very much.
First make the text readable to non-Klingons. Secondly, add a simple cutscene to the very beginning - white text scrolling over the opening view of the home world would be fine - and tell a story that will immerse and inspire me. Tell me who I am, what my job is and where my duty lies. Give me a goal and the lowdown on who all I have to kill to get there (gee, this is starting to sound like my day job now....) and then throw in some hooks that grab my emotions and make me care about the result ('Win, young jedi, else your family become all to well aquainted with the Foobarian pleasure pits....') . Point me in the practical direction that I need to go in first (set your production level to such and such, activate the planetary defences, and then get out here to explore space because if the Foobars find you first it won't be pretty...). Please assume that I am interested but not terribly patient or knowledgable, and that I need to be told a lot of the little things to get me started. That would do it!

Cheers, Rob.

(in reply to Paul Vebber)

Post #: 7

- 4/27/2002 6:45:00 AM

maximum evil

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demo = to short

learning curve is steap.

game pauses a lot.

you have to read a lot = lots of people lose interest
I love it when games read the text to you.
Of course the option to turn it off is nice.

Game is to expensive for what it is, now.

just my opinion.

compared to say,

age of empires demo

has several story lines
has multiplayer TCP/IP over LAN or internet
was not to short, as in how long u could play
had a build in tutorial
game didn't pause when a peon needed something to do.
price was about right for what it was, at the time.

homeworld demo

has multiplayer TCP/IP over LAN or internet
has awesome story line
was not to short, as in how long u could play
had a build in tutorial
game didn't pause when a worker needed something to do.price was about right for what it was, at the time.

half-life demo

has multiplayer TCP/IP over LAN or internet
oh a good story line
was not to short, as in how long u could play
had a build in tutorial
game didn't pause all the time
price was about right for what it was, at the time.

Dungeon siege

has multiplayer TCP/IP over LAN or internet
a story line
has a long demo
has a built in tutuorial
game didn't pause all the time, but allows u to
the NPC's when they spoke with you... they really did speak.

(in reply to Paul Vebber)

Post #: 8

A CL Demo would be welcome - 4/27/2002 7:39:15 AM

KG Erwin

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On games that I've been uncertain about, demos only serve to confirm my suspicions. Combat Mission is a prime example. I d 'l, I saw, I rejected. There was enough for me to say "no, I'm not interested" , but not enough to convince me I need this game in my collection. That's the problem I have with SU. Perhaps we're just getting too jaded, BUT shelling out $40 for a second-tier space game in 2002 is wasted money. SU probably belongs at the Underdogs site. Sorry, Andrew. Cut the price to $20 and you'll get some buyers. To Paul--if you want a successful demo, then do it with Combat Leader! Give us a complete scenario as a demo, and the fans will come. You guys just picked the wrong game for the demo experiment.

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Post #: 9

- 4/27/2002 11:26:42 PM

Andrew Ewanchyna

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The Underdogs site is for games that are no longer sold or supported by their developers. This isn't the case with STUN or SUDG. Are you proposing I stop supporting these games, KG Erwin?

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Post #: 10

- 4/28/2002 3:18:10 AM

GraemeL

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Another vote for too short.

I have ordered the game because it turned out to be just what I was looking for. However, if I had just downloaded the demo on a whim, the 50 turns would not have been enough to convince me to buy it.

The suggestion above to remove the turn limit, limit technology to the atomic age and disable save games sounds like a great idea.

(in reply to Paul Vebber)

Post #: 11

I was too harsh in my criticism... - 4/28/2002 7:00:12 AM

KG Erwin

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...but my point is, there's not enough within the time frame of the demo to convince me to spend $40 on it. That's not to say I didn't enjoy what little you can do in the first 50 years. A better tease would be a communication from one of the alien races, something like, "Stay away from System X or suffer the consequences...". Then the end of demo message pops up. My reference to the Underdogs site meant that if SU stiffs in sales, that's where it could end up. Don't get me wrong, I don't wish this fate for SU or any other Matrix product. Jeez, I've just about guilted myself into buying the d**n game anyway. :(

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Post #: 12

Short Demo - 4/28/2002 10:15:12 PM

Shudson66

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I must agree about it being too Short:mad:. Just as I was getting the hang of the game it quit on me, and I am one of those guys that will not go back and try it again just to see if I can do something different. Plus no Mannual really bit the big one.

On the postive side you suckered me in enough to order the game I had been waiting for MOO3. But the Demo and good reviews was enough to put me over the edge. I just don't think it was enough to convince others not to wait. Timing is everything if this demo had come out 2 month ago and not month or two before MOO3 you would probably have had better luck.

Anyway the Demo was enough for me.

Have you guy ever consider using Priority Mail to Ship it a lot cheaper. Than UPS.

Keep up the good work. :D

(in reply to Paul Vebber)

Post #: 13

- 4/28/2002 11:03:57 PM

Mac_MatrixForum

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The demo is nice. It was a bit short but still I was impressed by it. The reason why I haven't ordered yet is that I do not own a credit card (those are far less common around here) and haven't yet bothered to get/borrow one. I've also been rather busy and facing many exams in May so I have not hurried with the issue.

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Post #: 14

- 4/29/2002 7:54:48 AM

D-Ray

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I'd agree that the number one thing holding the demo back is the 50-year limit. It doesn't really give an opportunity to see the depth of the game.

First, I definately DO base buying decisions on demos. I've been an avid gamer for years, and the majority of the games I've bought were based on an enjoyable experience with a demo, whether it was a major commercial release or an independent game. I've already ordered this one, and it will be interesting to see if there's as much to it as I'm expecting, or if it's the same as the first 50 years, just repeated. I'm expecting more, but only because I did some homework.

Had I not read a few reviews and gone through a lot of the Matrix website, I probably wouldn't have known what I was missing in the full game. In the demo, players don't experience, and aren't directly informed about, some of the more interesting aspects of the game. I'm looking forward to dealing with pirates, unrest, spies, building an economy, conquering and negotiating with allies and enemies, colonization, raiding, and more. Unfortunately, I didn't get a taste of any of those things in the demo. I'm buying based on two things. First, an interface that lets me jump in when an action is needed, but doesn't force me to micromanage; and second, the game's potential, which I learned more through reviews and information that is not included with the demo.

Provided that the game is actually as good as the reviews -- and I'm hoping it is, as much for my sake as a player as for the success of independents like Andrew and publishers like Matrix :) -- the trick is figuring out how to reveal more of the game, without giving away too MUCH gameplay.

Besides including a PDF of the manual or the online helpfile, an option I'd suggest would be to include some saved games at different ages and game stages with the demo -- essentially scenarios. This would allow players to experience the other aspects of the game beyond the initial discovery and "treasure hunt" phase. The demo could still end after a set number of years, but more of the game's depth would be revealed. Save a game where the odds are in my favor, and another where my economy's failing, I'm outgunned and losing systems one by one. Give me a shot at managing a severe pirate problem, or conquering someone else's system. These saved games don't have to be true scenarios that actually check to see if I've met a goal. They just need some in-game method of describing the scene and letting the player know what the situation is when or before the game is loaded.

Here's an analogy: an effective 3-minute movie trailer will show exciting scenes from the best parts of the movie; not just the first three minutes. Highlight a few of the more exciting scenes and I think players will reward you. And an updated demo will bump the game back up on the "new demos" sites for more exposure. :D

==============================

D-Ray

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Post #: 15

Demo problems - 4/29/2002 10:44:51 PM

Seyvern

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I purchased the shareware version of the game for $30.00. I tried the demo and while I like the improvements to the game, its hardly worth another $40.00. I'd almost certainly get this version for a reasonable 'upgrade' fee but I'm not going to pay full price again.

-Seyv

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Post #: 16

- 5/1/2002 2:27:32 AM

rosary

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The demo hasn't been up that long at least to my knowledge. Once I download a demo I usually play it for a month before deciding to purchase. Results from making the game available for download may be 20-30 days away as players realize they must have this game. I do admit that no multiplayer ability may hamper sales even if noone uses it. Sometimes I want things I don't even want. I know its ridiculous but at least its true.

(in reply to Paul Vebber)

Post #: 17

Demo issues - 5/2/2002 1:52:34 AM

John Stafford

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I'm a fan of SU/SE4-type games. I downloaded the demo but had a difficult time finding my way around the game (was there a tutorial that I missed?), so never got a feel for what the game could do. I had the shareware version of SU but couldn't get a sense that the new game was that much superior - it may be, but I couldn't see it. Graphics aren't everything for me. The game has to be accessible. Perhaps most importantly, I just could not correlate spending $40 plus VERY expensive shipping (then converting all that to Canadian dollars), with a game demo that didn't seem to be better than the original SU. In other words, way too expensive. I mean no disrespect to the game or its developer, but for the same cash outlay ( or significantly less), I can get a high-end flight sim. Regards, John

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Post #: 18

- 5/2/2002 9:59:28 AM

rosary

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The basic STUN demo gives instructions all the way through. There is little that is not explained. Just give it some extra time. If you're talking about the Titans of Steelv1.4 demo then you'll want to read the tutorial that comes with the html manual.

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Post #: 19

- 5/2/2002 4:14:39 PM

madmax88

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From what i remember, playing Starships Unlimited used to be practicaly impossible, even with version 2.3. Menus way too complicated. Now with Divided galaxies, it's much better but could still require some patching up. For instance, a condensed view of the map, with a predefined zone for popup menus. This way the menu would never overlap the map.

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Post #: 20

- 5/6/2002 7:27:33 AM

Supervisor

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Well, I haven't done a whole lot of demos. I usually make my mind up about a game through reviews, friends, and other descriptions that I can find. A demo can be useful, but I wouldn't say that it has ever tipped the scale in [I]favor[\I] of a game.

In general, a well done demo can be fun, but is not usually the thing that inspires me to get the game. Now maybe I just don't do enough demos, but that's how it goes. I've enjoyed demos (Jagged Alliance 2, X-Com Apocalypse, Spaceward Ho!) and I can't say that they were unhelpful. Demos are more for a negative check on the game for me, I guess. Now the JA2 & X-Com demos were more about a small, custom scenario based on the game engine. It was nice for the wait until the game came out, but I was already determined to get them anyway. Spaceward Ho! is more like SUDG, but it's time scale was quicker than SUDG, so a 50 turn limit allowed more to happen before it quit.

A poorly set up demo can keep me from getting the game -- and not always because the game itself turns out to be bad. An example would be the Starfleet Command demo (the boxed retail version of the demo). Now I actually bought it out of the bargain bin for a couple dollars (and of course, the time had expired on the coupon for the actual game, but that's the way the bargain bin goes). The problem I had with that demo was there was no real directions on the interface and how it works in controlling the ship. I played it and blew up many of my ships, but I never really got the hang of maneuvering & combat. Since then, I have seen it on my friend's computer as he played it. It's nice, and I might pick it up in the future, but I would more likely have picked it up earlier if not for the demo.

Now, specific to the SUDG demo, it was helpful in the fact that I'm not wild about real time games, and in contrast to maximum_evil, I found the pausing to be quite useful. It would be nice to have the pausing be something that could be turned off for those who don't want it but have it toggled on by default.

And like RobertCrandall, the font is hard to read (especially against the dark background) and gets tiresome after awhile. It's just too hard to read on the screen for prolonged viewing.

The help was a little sketchier than I would have liked, but I was able to figure out quite a bit as it was, so it was adequate.

I agree that the demo is too short. Maybe if you set up a limited scenario of 1 opponent, smallest galaxy, limited ages, and let the play continue it would be better. The other possibility (that of several set, short "saved games" at different spots in the game) would do as well. But 50 turns was (IMO), just a little too short with the timescale of the game.

Now, I might just end up buying this game (or MOO3, or both) eventually. And I would have to say that the demo helped somewhat, but that I would just as likely have gotten the game without it, considering the reviews. But, since my game budget has gone to UV (:D), it will have to wait either way.

This is a long way of saying, that for me, demos are a so-so proposition. Though, I will say that this demo overall was fun and well done. I didn't hit any bugs or have any problem in installing or running it (which is in comparison to some awful running demos I've tried before).

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Post #: 21

- 5/16/2002 11:59:00 PM

Cranex

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I have not purchased either STUN nor STUNDG because I was
disappointed with the demos because:

1. The demos did not show me what troop invasion was like.
2. In the demo's I was unable to satisfactorily colonize new
worlds. (I like to have a decent number of worlds).
3. In the demo's I experienced very little Alien species.
4. In the demos, all I did was collect artifacts and research.

I got the impression that the game was about mainly exploring,
building freighters, colonizing 1 other world, and building 1 or two
starships.
I look for a game that has troop invasions, spying, colonizing
planets, economics. The demo's did not satisfactorily
show ALL aspects of the game.

I liked the graphics and combat very much!!!!!

IMPORTANT!!!!!!
The creator should provide a "key" that will unlock the Divided
Galaxies Demo like the STUN demo, say for $29US instead of having to ship a CD which is too expensive(I'm in Canada)

If you make the demo longer, I will download it, and give it another critique. Based on the current STUNDG demo, I would have to say,
"I will not buy STUNDG". Now that STUNDG is out, why not offer
the "unlock key" to the first STUN at a lower price, say $10. That way I can deicide if I like it. If I like it, I will definitely buy the better graphics ver. of STUNDG. And if I like it, then I will order the new STUNDG . Since their is no printed manual or tutorial, I don't see why one needs to have a CD shipped to them which is costly. The reseller in Canada, in Toronto is selling the CD for $63 Canadain. That's a hefty price for just a CD with no printed manual or tutorial. Just make the DEMO longer, and sell an unlock key to get the full benefits of the game.

ANOTHER ISSUE
I had one artifact left in a system to pick up. I selected "Pick a special mission" and the wisdom artifact was available. I clicked on it, but nothing seemed to happen. I could not get that artifact.

FINAL. Since buying SPace Empires IV, which, in my opinion, the AI needs alot of work, I am cautious about buying "shareware games". A long demo is needed so I can't test the AI!!

I love the planet graphics, explosions, sounds and combat.
Whats ground combat like? Is it animated, or what? Does the AI invade planets or just blow them up? Does the AI adjust its Ship Designs to best beat my ship desighs? One of the MAJOR problems with SE4 is that the AI is not apparently able to see its enemies planets fortifications)ground bases, missile bases, etc. The AI in MOO3 could see my unfortified planets would go and kill or invade them and ignore my heavily armed planets. Se4 will send a excort ship against my heavily armed home planet.

THE BOTTOM LINE............Make the original STUN or STUNDG DEMO very long, but leave in invading planets, have only one type of screen, or just limit some stuff like you can't save. I would like all the pregame customizations on.THAT's IMPORTANT.

I will not fork out $60 to $100 based on either demos.

Thankyou for reading my opinion.:)

(in reply to Paul Vebber)

Post #: 22

- 5/17/2002 2:41:36 AM

madmax88

Posts: 143
Joined: 1/14/2002
From: Montreal, Canada
Status: offline

This is probably the major turnoff.

Shipping.

Like Cranex mentioned, you should sell a downloadable version of the game for a slightly lower price (no cd, no box). Afterall, it's so small in size.

_____________________________

- -mAdMAx

(in reply to Paul Vebber)

Post #: 23

- 5/17/2002 7:38:38 PM

Marc von Martial

Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline

[QUOTE](I'm in Canada)[/QUOTE]

Check our dealers page, we have a reseller in Canada.

[url]www.matrixgames.com/insidemg/dealers.php[/url]

_____________________________

Marc von Martial
instagram stream

(in reply to Paul Vebber)

Post #: 24

- 5/20/2002 4:47:05 PM

Chumpington

Posts: 2
Joined: 5/20/2002
From: U.S.A.
Status: offline

it Sucks

(in reply to Paul Vebber)

Post #: 25

- 5/21/2002 1:48:57 AM

Supervisor

Posts: 5166
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline

[QUOTE]it Sucks[/QUOTE]
Now, [I]THAT[/I] gives a lot of information to the developers on just what the problem(s) with the demo may be. :rolleyes:

If it sucks, why?

Your opinion is as valid as anyone's. But it would be nice to know why you didn't like the demo. Is it the demo? The game itself? Or, what?

_____________________________

(in reply to Paul Vebber)

Post #: 26

- 5/21/2002 10:43:40 AM

Chumpington

Posts: 2
Joined: 5/20/2002
From: U.S.A.
Status: offline

I did. After spending a hour or so crafting a post on why I didn't like the demo and will not buy the game. I tried to post it and got a screen telling me to login. I was already logged in. When I logged in a second time I lost my posting. This web site is run a lot like the game (all screwed up, no documentation, help is a joke, in short an exercise in frustration). I did like the fact that the tool tips flashed at the bottom of the screen for 2 seconds with all the buttons at the top of the screen. It takes a lot of thought to come up with "helpful features" like that. I am glad they put out a demo, I may have bought the game based on the reviews. I just don't like games like this. I can sit there and hope I figure out the interface, rules, and what the heck is going on. Let alone come up stratagy for playing. I hate software like this, game or not. I have my share of stupid software I don't need more.

P.S. this God **** site is doing the login dance again!!

(in reply to Paul Vebber)

Post #: 27

- 5/22/2002 2:08:36 AM

Paul Vebber

Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline

Do you have cookies activated? If you let the cookies that know you have logged on work, it works fine.

(in reply to Paul Vebber)

Post #: 28

- 5/22/2002 2:17:59 AM

Marc von Martial

Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline

[QUOTE]I have my share of stupid software I don't need more. [/QUOTE]

Some times it not only the software. And this is based on long years of doing support.

_____________________________

Marc von Martial
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(in reply to Paul Vebber)

Post #: 29

Matrox Games - Feedback - 5/22/2002 11:45:33 AM

Kahn

Posts: 30
Joined: 5/11/2002
From: Abingdon, MD
Status: offline

Well if you care to hear what a former game developer and computer game reviewer has to say, here it is.

The Demo:

Too short!!! Should be 200 years long (just enough to get into some trouble), and include a tutorial scenario (just have the tips popup automatically and layout a couple of opponents, say one of your edain and two of the opposing edain close enough to encounter all of them before the time limit).

The Game:

Shipping Costs are way out of line. Asking folks to wait 8 days or more (and that's using your cheepest option) and having them pay a minimum surcharge of 22% of the purchase price is outragious! Combine this with the printer unfriendly manual spanning 140 pages and you should well understand why most consumers would rather choose a game that they can pick out at the local Electronics Boutique or Babbages for the same price that requires no waiting, no surcharge, and comes with a printed manual!

To be quite honest, the game places squarely between SE and MOO in quality (I would say on par with R4TS, which barely beats it out in graphics, but SU wins hands down in AI, depth, and playability.) But with an overall price tag rivaling that of CivIII and AoE when first released, your sales will never be more than mediocre.

As far as I can see, you have one of two choices in order to make the game a commercial success. Ether repackage the game with a printed manual and hire a distributer to put it on store shelves for the price of 40 bucks, or eliminate the media altogether and sell the game via download (all the crap that's on the CD now) for between $25 and $30.

I realize this may be a little tough to swallow, but as it stands right now you have a good product that's priced not to move. Your business model is hampered by the worst of what both retail sales (shipping costs, unit production costs) and internet sales (single point of sale, lack of consumer recognition) have to offer. You can't expect to succeed by attempting to straddle both business models! There's a reason no major game publisher exists based upon the same model you currently employ, because they're ether dead, or can't gain enough market share to grow. You have to decide to adopt ether the Retail Model (high production and advertising costs mitigated by enormus volume generated by thousands of points of sale and brand recognition) or the Internet Model (low cost, low volume, low name recognition, but consumers can receive the product in less time than it would take to drive to the store, and for far less cost to you than is involved with producing and distributing hard media). It would be a shame to see such a good product come and go without much notice by the millions of gamers at large due to a poor business model.

_____________________________

"The one you have to watch out for is the one you don't see comming!"
[B]Kahn[/B]

(in reply to Paul Vebber)

Post #: 30

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Slitherine

Demo downloaded like crazy...but