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Partisans - 3/23/2009 6:20:40 PM

Gendarme
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Just noticed on all the map screenshots, there is no "partisan fist" and number for any minor countries or major powers. I presume they appear if you decide to play with that option? Or do they stay on the map at all times like on the WIFFE maps?

Anthony DeChristopher

Post #: 1

RE: Partisans - 3/23/2009 6:47:34 PM

Froonp
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gendarme

Just noticed on all the map screenshots, there is no "partisan fist" and number for any minor countries or major powers. I presume they appear if you decide to play with that option? Or do they stay on the map at all times like on the WIFFE maps?

Anthony DeChristopher

See http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1629228&mpage=14� post #391.

(in reply to Gendarme)

Post #: 2

RE: Partisans - 3/23/2009 7:45:59 PM

Shannon V. OKeets
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I think what Patrice was referring to was:
======
13.1 Partisans
Getting partisans
There is no die roll to select a row on the partisan table. Instead, each country has a probability of partisans appearing as a value in the data for the country. The probability of partisans appearing in each country is the same as in the table. However, a separate random number is generated for each country and tested against the probability of partisans appearing in that country. The result is that partisans might appear in more than 8 countries.

Setting up partisans
Set up partisans that are drawn randomly from a fixed distribution that is redefined annually. They are drawn simultaneously for all major powers and set up simultaneously. After all partisans have been placed, the effects upon any overrun hexes are implemented one hex at a time.
============

Here is some other stuff from the Players Manual on partisans:
===========
Partisans are drawn randomly from the partisan force pool. There is a maximum # of partisan units per country (described in the next paragraph), and since they are corps sized units, the maximum number of partisan units in a hex is 2. The composition of the partisan force pool changes year to year which changes the probability of drawing weak, weaker, or very weak partisan units. The strength of the units you have drawn previously has no effect on the probability of what you will draw next. In particular, there is a limitless pool of partisans to draw from - subject to the partisan maximum per country. This section of the partisan rule is quite different from WIF FE because there is no longer any restriction due to the counter mix.

The maximum number of partisans permitted in a country is a function of the country's partisan number and the probability of the country checking for partisans. The second factor is the number of times the country appears on the partisan table (see RAC 13.1).

The maximum = (Partisan #) * (table occurrences) / 5, with a minimum of 2 if the partisan # is 4 or more.

Some examples are:
∙ France: 15 * 4 / 5 = 12
∙ USSR: 30 * 4 /5 = 24
∙ Siberia: 5 * 2 / 5 = 2
∙ United Kingdom: 15 * 2 /5 = 6
∙ Ireland: 5 * 1 /5 = 2 (Partisan # > 3)
∙ Norway: 4 * 4 /5 = 3
∙ China: 20 * 3 /5 = 12
∙ Yugoslavia: 9 * 5 /5 = 9
∙ Greece: 6 * 3 /5 = 4

The sequence in which partisans are placed on the map is determined by the partisan table and the program enforces the order in accordance with that table. The controlling major power can place a partisan unit in any enemy controlled hex in the partisan's country that is not in an enemy ZOC. If there is no such hex, the partisan does not arrive.

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RE: Partisans - 3/24/2009 4:18:16 PM

composer99
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I think what it comes down to is that the "partisan fist" you see on the paper maps is not on the MWiF map because it does not need to be.

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RE: Partisans - 3/24/2009 6:55:07 PM

Shannon V. OKeets
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Yes.

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RE: Partisans - 3/25/2009 3:37:16 PM

sajbalk
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Does this mean that the occupying forces garrison value is meaningless? Or does it mean, for example that France has a partisan value of 15 x (4 occurences)/(10 total occurences) = 6 and the 6 is tested every turn?

Confused on this.

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RE: Partisans - 3/25/2009 6:04:30 PM

Shannon V. OKeets
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sajbalk

Does this mean that the occupying forces garrison value is meaningless? Or does it mean, for example that France has a partisan value of 15 x (4 occurences)/(10 total occurences) = 6 and the 6 is tested every turn?

Confused on this.

There are several numbers associated with partisans for each country.

1 - The probability of a country being 'checked' for partisans is taken from the Partisan table of WIF FE. This is unchanged for the countries that appear in that table. There are a host of other minor countries in MWIF, compared to WIF FE, and these 'new' countries may or may not have partisan probabilities greater than zero (this was decided by ADG for CWIF and I have not changed it). If a country passes this step, then it is analyzed further in step 2.

2 - The number of partisans that 'arrive' in a country, if the individual die roll for the country is within the probability of partisans 'arriving', depends on the garrison level, etc.. This is the 'second' die roll that is discussed in RAW and is unchanged. Here is where garrison values and other factors affect the number of partisans that appear. If there is sufficient garrsion, then no partisans appear, even though the country passed the first test (#1 above).

3 - The formulae I gave in my previous post relates to the maximum number of partisans permitted per country. The idea is that you can not fill a country with partisans. The maximum for France is 12; for the USSR 24; for Norway 3; ...

EDIT: Typos.

< Message edited by Shannon V. OKeets -- 3/25/2009 6:05:08 PM >

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RE: Partisans - 3/26/2009 7:36:04 AM

paulderynck
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

1 - The probability of a country being 'checked' for partisans is taken from the Partisan table of WIF FE. This is unchanged for the countries that appear in that table. There are a host of other minor countries in MWIF, compared to WIF FE, and these 'new' countries may or may not have partisan probabilities greater than zero (this was decided by ADG for CWIF and I have not changed it). If a country passes this step, then it is analyzed further in step 2.

Does this mean the partisans "could" appear in different combinations of countries then they could per the WiFFE Partisan chart, but the probabilities are the same as on that chart? For example in WiFFE you can't get partisans in both USSR and China in the same turn, but the odds of it in any one turn are 30% for China and 40% for the USSR, so in MWiF it could happen?

Just curious.

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RE: Partisans - 3/26/2009 8:37:03 AM

Shannon V. OKeets
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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

1 - The probability of a country being 'checked' for partisans is taken from the Partisan table of WIF FE. This is unchanged for the countries that appear in that table. There are a host of other minor countries in MWIF, compared to WIF FE, and these 'new' countries may or may not have partisan probabilities greater than zero (this was decided by ADG for CWIF and I have not changed it). If a country passes this step, then it is analyzed further in step 2.

Does this mean the partisans "could" appear in different combinations of countries then they could per the WiFFE Partisan chart, but the probabilities are the same as on that chart? For example in WiFFE you can't get partisans in both USSR and China in the same turn, but the odds of it in any one turn are 30% for China and 40% for the USSR, so in MWiF it could happen?

Just curious.

Yes. 12%.

You could also get absolutely no partisan checks (very low probability).

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RE: Partisans - 3/29/2009 10:22:00 AM

Davidt
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HI,

Quick question. Where (in game) can i check how much Garison value is needed in a country to be sure you won't get partisans?

Regards
David

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RE: Partisans - 3/29/2009 5:37:20 PM

Shannon V. OKeets
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Davidt

HI,

Quick question. Where (in game) can i check how much Garison value is needed in a country to be sure you won't get partisans?

Regards
David

Here's the partisan informational form.

You can call this up at any time, but this was a good time for Japan to examine it. This is the 13th impulse of the turn so there is a really good chance the turn will end. The phase is HQ reoriganization, so Japan could use its HQ reorganization points to reorganize some vulnerable air units that could be destoyed if Chinese partisans appear (12% chance).

Attachment (1)

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RE: Partisans - 3/30/2009 2:51:42 PM

micheljq
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Hello, thanks for the screenshot.

Why does it says, for China for example : "Base Partisan : 15 (first year)"

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

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RE: Partisans - 3/30/2009 4:09:25 PM

sajbalk
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RAW 13.1 "If an unconquered country was neutral at any time during the calendar year, halve its partisan value."

However, Japan and China are considered active at game start. Thus the partisan value should not be halved in 1939 for China, Manchuria, or Korea.

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RE: Partisans - 3/30/2009 6:06:59 PM

Shannon V. OKeets
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sajbalk

RAW 13.1 "If an unconquered country was neutral at any time during the calendar year, halve its partisan value."

However, Japan and China are considered active at game start. Thus the partisan value should not be halved in 1939 for China, Manchuria, or Korea.

I'll check the code to see if it is 'preloaded' correctly.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to sajbalk)

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RE: Partisans - 3/30/2009 6:22:38 PM

Froonp
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: sajbalk

RAW 13.1 "If an unconquered country was neutral at any time during the calendar year, halve its partisan value."

However, Japan and China are considered active at game start. Thus the partisan value should not be halved in 1939 for China, Manchuria, or Korea.

I'll check the code to see if it is 'preloaded' correctly.

Also, China unmodified Partisan number is 20. So halved it makes 10.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

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RE: Partisans - 3/30/2009 6:25:37 PM

Froonp
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Also, India's Partisan number is 6, not 3.

The other partisan numbers in this screenshot are OK.

Manchuria (3) is not present, but maybe this is because it is not included in a Guadalcanal scenario ?

(in reply to Froonp)

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RE: Partisans - 3/30/2009 6:30:57 PM

sajbalk
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It looks like the global war scenario from the information shown. Perhaps Manchuria is not coded as a "red" country?

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RE: Partisans - 3/30/2009 6:36:26 PM

Orm
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Also, India's Partisan number is 6, not 3.

The other partisan numbers in this screenshot are OK.

Manchuria (3) is not present, but maybe this is because it is not included in a Guadalcanal scenario ?

Has the partisan numbers in the pacific been increased?

On my map India has a 2, China 10, Malaya 1 and so on. I notice that Poland and Netherlands is the same as on my maps.

(in reply to Froonp)

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RE: Partisans - 3/30/2009 6:50:52 PM

Froonp
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Also, India's Partisan number is 6, not 3.

The other partisan numbers in this screenshot are OK.

Manchuria (3) is not present, but maybe this is because it is not included in a Guadalcanal scenario ?

Has the partisan numbers in the pacific been increased?

On my map India has a 2, China 10, Malaya 1 and so on. I notice that Poland and Netherlands is the same as on my maps.

You describe the 1996 maps.
The 2000 & 2004 maps are updated.
List of changes here : http://pagesperso-orange.fr/froon/WiF/WiFFEMaps.txt

(in reply to Orm)

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RE: Partisans - 3/30/2009 6:52:33 PM

Froonp
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sajbalk

It looks like the global war scenario from the information shown. Perhaps Manchuria is not coded as a "red" country?

Sure, this is global war. Maybe Manchuria here has no chances of PART appearing ? The form shows that it only shows country where Partisans can appear.

(in reply to sajbalk)

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RE: Partisans - 3/30/2009 7:49:34 PM

Orm
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Also, India's Partisan number is 6, not 3.

The other partisan numbers in this screenshot are OK.

Manchuria (3) is not present, but maybe this is because it is not included in a Guadalcanal scenario ?

Has the partisan numbers in the pacific been increased?

On my map India has a 2, China 10, Malaya 1 and so on. I notice that Poland and Netherlands is the same as on my maps.

You describe the 1996 maps.
The 2000 & 2004 maps are updated.
List of changes here : http://pagesperso-orange.fr/froon/WiF/WiFFEMaps.txt

Thank you.

(in reply to Froonp)

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RE: Partisans - 3/30/2009 8:27:34 PM

Shannon V. OKeets
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Also, India's Partisan number is 6, not 3.

The other partisan numbers in this screenshot are OK.

Manchuria (3) is not present, but maybe this is because it is not included in a Guadalcanal scenario ?

Patrice,

Would you check the data files for the partisan numbers? That is where that information is defined (it might be from the 2000 maps).

Thanks.

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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RE: Partisans - 3/30/2009 8:30:04 PM

Shannon V. OKeets
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: sajbalk

It looks like the global war scenario from the information shown. Perhaps Manchuria is not coded as a "red" country?

Sure, this is global war. Maybe Manchuria here has no chances of PART appearing ? The form shows that it only shows country where Partisans can appear.

Yes.

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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RE: Partisans - 3/30/2009 8:31:42 PM

Froonp
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Patrice,

Would you check the data files for the partisan numbers? That is where that information is defined (it might be from the 2000 maps).

Thanks.

OK, I did not know what to do tonight.

About the date of the map, the 2000 & the 2004 are nearly the same. They are 100% the same as to PART numbers.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

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RE: Partisans - 3/30/2009 8:44:08 PM

Shannon V. OKeets
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: sajbalk

RAW 13.1 "If an unconquered country was neutral at any time during the calendar year, halve its partisan value."

However, Japan and China are considered active at game start. Thus the partisan value should not be halved in 1939 for China, Manchuria, or Korea.

I'll check the code to see if it is 'preloaded' correctly.

Well, there is no data for which countries were at war in the year preceding the start of each scenario.

That is easily enough to add - if I had that information for each of the 252 'countries' for each of the 11 scenarios.

Does anyone have a timeline for when each country entered the war?

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

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RE: Partisans - 3/30/2009 8:59:27 PM

sajbalk
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The year when each country entered is only important if the country is unconquered when rolling for partisans.

However, if you send a list, I will send the dates.

By memory, only China and Russia are unconquered and at war for scenario starts.

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Iowa, USA

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RE: Partisans - 3/30/2009 9:07:07 PM

Orm
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sajbalk

The year when each country entered is only important if the country is unconquered when rolling for partisans.

That is not correct.

Cut from
13.1 Partisans (option 46)
If the country was neutral at any time in the calendar year, halve its partisan number.

(in reply to sajbalk)

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RE: Partisans - 3/30/2009 9:10:10 PM

Orm
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Well, there is no data for which countries were at war in the year preceding the start of each scenario.

That is easily enough to add - if I had that information for each of the 252 'countries' for each of the 11 scenarios.

Does anyone have a timeline for when each country entered the war?

I found the dates for when the allied countries entered the war. Beware of the countries fighting on the Axis side before joining the Allies. Like Iraq and Iran that was invaded in 1941.

From http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Allied_Powers_(World_War_II)
Following the German invasion of Poland
Poland: September 1, 1939
United Kingdom: September 3, 1939
France: September 3, 1939
Australia: September 3, 1939
New Zealand: September 3, 1939
Nepal: September 4, 1939
Newfoundland: September 4, 1939
Tonga: September 4, 1939
South Africa: September 6, 1939
Canada: September 10, 1939

After the end of the Phony War
Denmark: April 9, 1940
Norway: April 9, 1940
Belgium: May 10, 1940
Luxembourg: May 10, 1940
Netherlands: May 10, 1940
Malta: June 10, 1940
Free France: June 18, 1940
Greece: October 28, 1940
Kingdom of Yugoslavia: April 6, 1941
Soviet Union: June 22, 1941
Tannu Tuva: June 25, 1941

After the attack on Pearl Harbor
Panama: December 7, 1941
Philippines: December 7, 1941
Costa Rica: December 8, 1941
Dominican Republic: December 8, 1941
El Salvador: December 8, 1941
Haiti: December 8, 1941
Honduras: December 8, 1941
Nicaragua: December 8, 1941
United States: December 8, 1941
Republic of China: December 9, 1941
Guatemala: December 9, 1941
Cuba: December 9, 1941
Provisional Government of the Republic of Korea (government in exile): December 9, 1941
Czechoslovakia (government in exile): December 16, 1941
Mexico: May 22, 1942
Brazil: August 22, 1942
Ethiopia: December 14, 1942
Iraq: January 17, 1943
Bolivia: April 7, 1943
Iran: September 9, 1943
Italy: October 13, 1943 (formerly a member of the Axis)
Colombia: November 26, 1943
Liberia: January 27, 1944

After D-Day
Romania: August 25, 1944, (formerly a member of the Axis)
Bulgaria: September 8, 1944, (formerly a member of the Axis)
San Marino: September 21, 1944
Albania: October 26, 1944
Hungary: January 20, 1945, (formerly a member of the Axis)
Bahawalpur: February 2, 1945
Ecuador: February 2, 1945
Paraguay: February 7, 1945
Peru: February 12, 1945
Uruguay: February 15, 1945
Venezuela: February 15, 1945
Turkey: February 23, 1945
Lebanon: February 27, 1945
Saudi Arabia: March 1945
Argentina: March 27, 1945
Chile: April 11, 1945
People's Republic of Mongolia: August 9, 1945

< Message edited by Orm -- 3/30/2009 9:20:45 PM >

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

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RE: Partisans - 3/30/2009 9:32:35 PM

Shannon V. OKeets
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sajbalk

The year when each country entered is only important if the country is unconquered when rolling for partisans.

However, if you send a list, I will send the dates.

By memory, only China and Russia are unconquered and at war for scenario starts.

Welcome to my world.

Attachment (1)

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to sajbalk)

Post #: 29

RE: Partisans - 3/30/2009 9:38:09 PM

Shannon V. OKeets
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Well, there is no data for which countries were at war in the year preceding the start of each scenario.

That is easily enough to add - if I had that information for each of the 252 'countries' for each of the 11 scenarios.

Does anyone have a timeline for when each country entered the war?

I found the dates for when the allied countries entered the war. Beware of the countries fighting on the Axis side before joining the Allies. Like Iraq and Iran that was invaded in 1941.

From http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Allied_Powers_(World_War_II)
Following the German invasion of Poland
Poland: September 1, 1939
United Kingdom: September 3, 1939
France: September 3, 1939
Australia: September 3, 1939
New Zealand: September 3, 1939
Nepal: September 4, 1939
Newfoundland: September 4, 1939
Tonga: September 4, 1939
South Africa: September 6, 1939
Canada: September 10, 1939

After the end of the Phony War
Denmark: April 9, 1940
Norway: April 9, 1940
Belgium: May 10, 1940
Luxembourg: May 10, 1940
Netherlands: May 10, 1940
Malta: June 10, 1940
Free France: June 18, 1940
Greece: October 28, 1940
Kingdom of Yugoslavia: April 6, 1941
Soviet Union: June 22, 1941
Tannu Tuva: June 25, 1941

After the attack on Pearl Harbor
Panama: December 7, 1941
Philippines: December 7, 1941
Costa Rica: December 8, 1941
Dominican Republic: December 8, 1941
El Salvador: December 8, 1941
Haiti: December 8, 1941
Honduras: December 8, 1941
Nicaragua: December 8, 1941
United States: December 8, 1941
Republic of China: December 9, 1941
Guatemala: December 9, 1941
Cuba: December 9, 1941
Provisional Government of the Republic of Korea (government in exile): December 9, 1941
Czechoslovakia (government in exile): December 16, 1941
Mexico: May 22, 1942
Brazil: August 22, 1942
Ethiopia: December 14, 1942
Iraq: January 17, 1943
Bolivia: April 7, 1943
Iran: September 9, 1943
Italy: October 13, 1943 (formerly a member of the Axis)
Colombia: November 26, 1943
Liberia: January 27, 1944

After D-Day
Romania: August 25, 1944, (formerly a member of the Axis)
Bulgaria: September 8, 1944, (formerly a member of the Axis)
San Marino: September 21, 1944
Albania: October 26, 1944
Hungary: January 20, 1945, (formerly a member of the Axis)
Bahawalpur: February 2, 1945
Ecuador: February 2, 1945
Paraguay: February 7, 1945
Peru: February 12, 1945
Uruguay: February 15, 1945
Venezuela: February 15, 1945
Turkey: February 23, 1945
Lebanon: February 27, 1945
Saudi Arabia: March 1945
Argentina: March 27, 1945
Chile: April 11, 1945
People's Republic of Mongolia: August 9, 1945

Thanks.

I guess the easiest way to do this is to add a field to the country data for the date that the country entered the war. Then I can use the scenario start date to work out whether they have been at war since the beginning of the scenario start date's calendar year.

Finally, we don't have to worry about those countries on the list that have a partisan number of 0 in the existing country data files.

< Message edited by Shannon V. OKeets -- 3/30/2009 9:40:52 PM >

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(in reply to Orm)

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