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Databases - 4/1/2009 11:50:37 PM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Hi,

after playing with the Gouge demo for a few days I just purchased Harpoon 3 ANW (3.92) and patched it up to 3.94. Am I complete now or are there still worthwhile battle sets available from fan sites? Talking about databases, is it right that solely one has pics for vessels?

By the way, the HCE demo is a great tool to get into Harpoon, for one can learn the very basics in like 30 min., while ANW is rather intimidating at first glance. I subsequently digged for the Gouge demo though because I was curious and after all found this one more appealing due to higher complexity. You guys should remove the time restriction, so one has not to cheat with his system clock in order to get it run. He could just judge from the screens and miss a great game.
Post #: 1
RE: Databases - 4/2/2009 12:01:35 AM   
hermanhum


Posts: 2209
Joined: 9/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow

Am I complete now or are there still worthwhile battle sets available from fan sites? Talking about databases, is it right that solely one has pics for vessels?

Welcome aboard, shipmate.

The third-party mod you want is the PlayersDB. Harpoon ANW users can get the:
Complete Harpoon ANW Library

I do not know what you are talking about re: pics for naval vessels

_____________________________


(in reply to Lützow)
Post #: 2
RE: Databases - 4/2/2009 12:26:40 AM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Thank you.

Didn't know there were so many scenarios for ANW. Guess this should occupy me for a long time.

(in reply to hermanhum)
Post #: 3
Harpoon 3 scenarios for the PlayersDB - 4/2/2009 12:29:54 AM   
hermanhum


Posts: 2209
Joined: 9/21/2005
Status: offline 		Just wait until you play some MP with us...

Some guys love to play week-long campaigns in Real Time. 

Hope to get a match with you, soon.


_____________________________


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Post #: 4
RE: Databases - 4/2/2009 2:16:15 AM   
Bucks


Posts: 679
Joined: 7/27/2006
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow

Hi,

after playing with the Gouge demo for a few days I just purchased Harpoon 3 ANW (3.92) and patched it up to 3.94. Am I complete now or are there still worthwhile battle sets available from fan sites? Talking about databases, is it right that solely one has pics for vessels?


Lützow,

Both Dale Hillier's ANWDB and my HUD3 have the correct photo index values set, to allow you to access the new coloured photos available with ANW. I'm unsure of the status of other DB's although I could imagine that without the correct index numbers there would be trouble with platforms not matching the new coloured pics. that may apply to the PDB so be aware and don't be disappointed if you click on a Osa and get the LCS...

Cheers

Darren

< Message edited by Bucks -- 4/2/2009 2:17:45 AM >

_____________________________

*******************************************
Editor HUD-II/HUD3 Harpoon Databases

http://www.taitennek.com/hud3-db/hud3-index.htm

Development Team H3ANW v3.8, v3.9, v3.10 & v3.10.1
*******************************************

(in reply to Lützow)
Post #: 5
RE: Databases - 4/2/2009 5:59:58 AM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Bucks,

regarding the HUD3 database, some battlesets obviously have pictures (i.e. tutorial) and for others I got the message "media not found". Can't tell you exactly which ones are concerned, as I merely looked into some random scenarios yesterday. But I realized this right after install and before I got the PDB.

/edit: Just loaded 'Wolves vs. Wolves' from PDB and there are no pics as well for my 3 NATO Subs. So either not every scenario/vessel has them, or something went wrong during my installation. Even I hardly can imagine the latter one, as there were only .exe files and I didn't change anything subsequently.

I also got aware about the arguments going on here, but don't want to get involved into this fight. So I say thank you to everybody who participated in this project and made it available to players like me, it's truely amazing.

< Message edited by Lützow -- 4/2/2009 6:52:04 AM >

(in reply to Bucks)
Post #: 6
Harpoon 3 scenarios for the PlayersDB - 4/2/2009 7:58:12 AM   
hermanhum


Posts: 2209
Joined: 9/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow

/edit: Just loaded 'Wolves vs. Wolves' from PDB and there are no pics as well for my 3 NATO Subs. So either not every scenario/vessel has them, or something went wrong during my installation. Even I hardly can imagine the latter one, as there were only .exe files and I didn't change anything subsequently.

There are only 6 submarine pictures included with the new media viewer and those submarines used in Wolves v. Wolves are not part of those six. Thus, you get the "No media Available" image whether you use the HUD3 or the PlayersDB version of this scenario.

Hope that you enjoyed the scenario, nonetheless.

_____________________________


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Post #: 7
RE: Databases - 4/2/2009 8:15:18 AM   
Bucks


Posts: 679
Joined: 7/27/2006
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		Lützow,

The new pics/photos made available through the Media Viewer were originally added to match a requirement stipulated by the USNI, for the Get the Gouge project. They will not cover all of the original illustrations provided originally with Harpoon 2.

I also had to use public domain photos, and although taking long hours searching through the US DoD media website, this is what we have. I will be adding a facility to allow for the download of further photos from a collection I have of additional as yet unpublished photos/diagrams.

There are few subs added as yet due to the need to keep the displayed platforms in line with the USNI specific scens. This is definately a platform group that will expand shortly. I've also disassembled the original RES file and may look at adding an enlarged example of the original H2 illustration for the platforms concerned. At this point Dale Hillier's ANWDB would be the best match in regard to platform to photo availability due to it's use in the USNI project.

Cheers

Darren


_____________________________

*******************************************
Editor HUD-II/HUD3 Harpoon Databases

http://www.taitennek.com/hud3-db/hud3-index.htm

Development Team H3ANW v3.8, v3.9, v3.10 & v3.10.1
*******************************************

(in reply to Lützow)
Post #: 8
Harpoon 3 scenarios for the PlayersDB - 4/2/2009 9:52:45 AM   
hermanhum


Posts: 2209
Joined: 9/21/2005
Status: offline 		If PicImages of your platforms are really important to you, the old set of images is available. Though not as attractive as the new additions, there are more of them and they are available for more platforms. See:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=1926329

_____________________________


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Post #: 9
RE: Harpoon 3 scenarios for the PlayersDB - 4/4/2009 7:04:00 AM   
incredibletwo

 

Posts: 102
Joined: 2/8/2009
Status: offline 		Hi,
Will we be able to add our own images in the near future, without the need to re-synchronise the scenarios?


(in reply to hermanhum)
Post #: 10
Harpoon 3 scenarios for the PlayersDB - 4/4/2009 7:56:08 AM   
hermanhum


Posts: 2209
Joined: 9/21/2005
Status: offline 		I think it's highly doubtful in the current scheme of things.  Unless they change the signature function (i.e. make it optional), looks like we're going to be stuck with it.

_____________________________


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Post #: 11
RE: Harpoon 3 scenarios for the PlayersDB - 4/6/2009 2:04:02 AM   
rsharp@advancedgamin

 

Posts: 430
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: incredibletwo

Hi,
Will we be able to add our own images in the near future, without the need to re-synchronise the scenarios?




Sure,

All that will needs changing is to have the legacy image viewer default to the no-image image when media cannot be found. This way the database editors can give any platform a Picture ID even if they are not supplying an image instead of the requirement of pointing it to the no-image picture ID. (I'll offer my help for this if asked.) The newer media viewer already works like this.

If the database editors publish a listing of which picture ID can go with which platform then the user can just drop images into a directory based on that picture ID. Example. F/A-18E hornet using picture ID 58 would have it's images in a directory something like

C:\Matrix Games\Resource\DBPics\Plane\058\

-or-

C:\Matrix Games\Resource\DBPics\Plane\058\F/A-18E

Again, the media viewer already supports this and, with the database editor cooperation, will allow the users to add their own media to the game.

Thanks,

_____________________________

Russell
Advanced Gaming Systems
Home of Computer Harpoon

(in reply to incredibletwo)
Post #: 12
Harpoon 3 scenarios for the PlayersDB - 4/6/2009 2:23:38 AM   
hermanhum


Posts: 2209
Joined: 9/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rsharp@advancedgamin

C:\Matrix Games\Resource\DBPics\Plane\058\

I think that having each database only use the default Resource folder is a mistake as each database editor/user might want to have a separate set of images and numbering scheme for his production.

It might be wise to include a DBPics sub-folder under each database folder not unlike the current Text folder. Only if no folder is found does the game go to the default Resource folder.

_____________________________


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Post #: 13
RE: Harpoon 3 scenarios for the PlayersDB - 4/6/2009 2:27:50 AM   
Mr.Sharkey

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 8/23/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: incredibletwo

Hi,
Will we be able to add our own images in the near future, without the need to re-synchronise the scenarios?




I have a more important message from Bucks, but lets deal with this first.

quote:

The images are stored like so:

C:\Matrix Games\Harpoon 3 Advanced Naval Warfare 3.X\Resource\DBPics\Plane

C:\Matrix Games\Harpoon 3 Advanced Naval Warfare 3.10\Resource\DBPics\Ship

C:\Matrix Games\Harpoon 3 Advanced Naval Warfare 3.10\Resource\DBPics\Sub

Within each of these folders are the folders named sequentially 001 --> xyz

Database editors simply need to match the images to the folder numbers.

So in the HUD3, Sub Photo directory:

Folder 001 - has the images for the Akula I & II
Folder 002 - has the images for the Charlie I & II
Folder 003 - has the images for the Akula I & II
Folder 004 - has the images for the Agosta

You can place multiple images in the platform specific folders, b & w or colour, reads most pic file formats.

To change the photo indexes you need a DB editor, to add extra photos to the existing schema you simply need to place them in the correctly numbered folder. The background was used to keep the photos within the size constraints of 600 x 450 pixels. This was more out of the need to keep the back and forward viewing arrows fixed in one position but also limited the size of the images to reduce download size.


It's a very simple system and I think Bucks said on the phone he'd get a spreadsheet uploaded to his site with the missing submarine pics as soon as possible.



(in reply to incredibletwo)
Post #: 14
RE: Harpoon 3 scenarios for the PlayersDB - 4/6/2009 2:29:50 AM   
Mr.Sharkey

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 8/23/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hermanhum

quote:

ORIGINAL: rsharp@advancedgamin

C:\Matrix Games\Resource\DBPics\Plane\058\

I think that having each database only use the default Resource folder is a mistake as each database editor/user might want to have a separate set of images and numbering scheme for his production.

It might be wise to include a DBPics sub-folder under each database folder not unlike the current Text folder. Only if no folder is found does the game go to the default Resource folder.


Darren's gonna go nuts, but why not just get on the bus with the rest of the children...

Keep smiling

Sean

(in reply to hermanhum)
Post #: 15
RE: Harpoon 3 scenarios for the PlayersDB - 4/6/2009 5:24:06 AM   
incredibletwo

 

Posts: 102
Joined: 2/8/2009
Status: offline 		I asked because I've been collecting images for my private use, and I have quite a few that aren't supported by the current set-up, i.e. for platfroms that currently don't have their own folder. This means that the DB editor/s will have to add new folders/PicID for the platforms that don't already have them. I understand the part about dropping images into the respective folders. What I was referring to was if there isn't already a folder/PicID, and I added it using the database editor, the synchronisation gets screwed up. I'd like to tweak the databases I have but in doing so I have to re-synch all the scenarios. Will the requirement to synchronise databases to scenarios (or vice-versa) be necessary in the future?


quote:

ORIGINAL:  hermanhum
I think that having each database only use the default Resource folder is a mistake as each database editor/user might want to have a separate set of images and numbering scheme for his production.
It might be wise to include a DBPics sub-folder under each database folder not unlike the current Text folder.  Only if no folder is found does the game go to the default Resource folder.


This seems like a good idea. That way, anyone can their own pics and not worry about database editors and whatnot.




(in reply to Mr.Sharkey)
Post #: 16
Harpoon 3 scenarios for the PlayersDB - 4/8/2009 9:49:33 AM   
hermanhum


Posts: 2209
Joined: 9/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: incredibletwo

I asked because I've been collecting images for my private use, and I have quite a few that aren't supported by the current set-up, i.e. for platfroms that currently don't have their own folder. This means that the DB editor/s will have to add new folders/PicID for the platforms that don't already have them. I understand the part about dropping images into the respective folders. What I was referring to was if there isn't already a folder/PicID, and I added it using the database editor, the synchronisation gets screwed up. I'd like to tweak the databases I have but in doing so I have to re-synch all the scenarios. Will the requirement to synchronise databases to scenarios (or vice-versa) be necessary in the future?

quote:

ORIGINAL: hermanhum
I think that having each database only use the default Resource folder is a mistake as each database editor/user might want to have a separate set of images and numbering scheme for his production.

It might be wise to include a DBPics sub-folder under each database folder not unlike the current Text folder. Only if no folder is found does the game go to the default Resource folder.


This seems like a good idea. That way, anyone can their own pics and not worry about database editors and whatnot.

The entire point of having an editor is for the editor to be able to do it his way. Not ANWDB's numbering system, not HUD's numbering system, but HIS numbering system (whatever that may be). No one wants to be submitting anything (pic#s, images, etc) for someone else's approval before using them.

Someone who decides to make a WW2 database will not be using any of the images provided by AGSI. Instead, he will likely want to start his own numbering system (probably at 1,2,3...) If those numbers are already used in the default Resource folder, it's going to present problems to him or to anyone who might want to use his db/image combination. Even if he tries to avoid those numbers already in use by ANWDB/ODB, there's nothing to stop AGSI from releasing additional images that will eventually conflict with his personal numbering system. For example, if there are currently 100 images for ANWDB and the user decides to start numbering his images at 101, AGSI could easily release some more images starting at 101 thereby causing problems for his database.

The best solution is still to make the signature function optional. However, since that will never happen, the only possible solution that allows for database personalization is to have the images stored with each individual database.

_____________________________


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Post #: 17
RE: Harpoon 3 scenarios for the PlayersDB - 4/8/2009 2:47:18 PM   
CV32


Posts: 1046
Joined: 5/15/2006
From: The Rock, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VCDH
When I worked for Holland America back in the 90's, I learned that no matter what you do, you are not going to make everyone happy.  And no matter how hard you try, there's always going to be some people that you can't make happy.


I'm surprised that you didn't learn that until the 90's. (I'm being facetious, of course).

_____________________________

Brad Leyte
HC3 development group member for HCE
Author of HCDB official database for HCE
Harpgamer.com Co-Owner
Post #: 18
Harpoon 3 scenarios for the PlayersDB - 4/8/2009 7:27:41 PM   
hermanhum


Posts: 2209
Joined: 9/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VCDH

If AGSI were to make every aspect of the game customizable by the user, then the game would be needlessly complex and the user would most likely spend more time on set up than he would playing the game. I think we can all assume that, compared to the number of people that play this game, the actual number of people that want the ability to have a custom picture file is minimal. In fact, I wouldn't be suprised one bit if could dispense with the plural and use the singular in a description of it.

That might be true, but the game already allows for customized text. It is silly to do one and not both, IMO.

I do agree that the number of folks who might want the ability to manage an image collection may be small. However, one database author (WW2Db) has already demonstrated a willingness to do so. I have no idea how popularly his work has been distributed, but it is proof positive that there is a need for this flexibility.

I have already expressed a similar view to IncredibleTwo. I am not certain that such an image library is going to be widely disseminated due to size issues, either. However, I am helping in his project because of the possibility that it might turn out otherwise. As usual, looks like users will just have to rely upon their own resources to get around ANW 'features'.

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Post #: 19
RE: Harpoon 3 scenarios for the PlayersDB - 4/8/2009 7:39:23 PM   
rsharp@advancedgamin

 

Posts: 430
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		The game is already set up to allow the databases to have their own picture folders. The question is whether the launcher is set up to handle it correctly. By memory it seems it was but have not had the time to check.

One might look through our public wiki to see how it might be set up.

On another note, it would pretty cool if we could set up a mechanism where each database author registers for a range of picture IDs. AGSI or some other entity could act like the FCC to allow everyone to live harmonously. It would be even better if this happened spontaneously. Okay, enough kidding around.



_____________________________

Russell
Advanced Gaming Systems
Home of Computer Harpoon
Post #: 20
Harpoon 3 [ANW] scenarios for the PlayersDB - 4/8/2009 7:41:31 PM   
hermanhum


Posts: 2209
Joined: 9/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VCDH

As one of five DB authors [of the seven DBs going around] I really don't see the need to increase my workload, especially when we all have real lives and jobs. At least two of those guys, myself being one of them, have jobs that require us to be away from home alot.

Moreover, how does this idea for separate image libraries affect you or anyone else in AGSI in the slightest? You can continue to add images to the default library as is currently being done. If the game doesn't find an DBPics folder within it an individual Database folder, it uses the default files; which means that you would totally and wholly unaffected.

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Post #: 21
Harpoon 3 scenarios for the PlayersDB - 4/8/2009 8:10:02 PM   
hermanhum


Posts: 2209
Joined: 9/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rsharp@advancedgamin

The game is already set up to allow the databases to have their own picture folders. The question is whether the launcher is set up to handle it correctly. By memory it seems it was but have not had the time to check.

I believe that you are correct. I just tested by:

1) Moving the DBPics folder to the ANWDB folder alongside the Text sub-folder
2) Manually changed the Harpoon.ini file settings from:

quote:

ResDir1 C:\Harpoon 3.9.0.0\DATABASES\ANWDB\Text

ResDir2 C:\Harpoon 3.9.0.0\Resource\DBPics

to

quote:

ResDir1 C:\Harpoon 3.9.0.0\DATABASES\ANWDB\Text

ResDir2 :\Harpoon 3.9.0.0\DATABASES\ANWDB\DBPics

And the proper images do appear in the viewer.

If the ANW Configuration launcher could be altered so that it changed the location of the Text file and DBPics file at the same time, I think that everything might work.

_____________________________


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Post #: 22
RE: Harpoon 3 scenarios for the PlayersDB - 4/8/2009 8:23:02 PM   
rsharp@advancedgamin

 

Posts: 430
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		Try putting a Pics folder in a database folder with the res files. See if the Launcher picks up on that by setting the ini key's the proper value when you select that database.

_____________________________

Russell
Advanced Gaming Systems
Home of Computer Harpoon

(in reply to hermanhum)
Post #: 23
Harpoon 3 scenarios for the PlayersDB - 4/8/2009 8:30:22 PM   
hermanhum


Posts: 2209
Joined: 9/21/2005
Status: offline 		That seems to have solved the tracking problem.  Creation of a Pics sub-folder within a database folder will work.  I think that IncredibleTwo will be very happy to know this.  

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Post #: 24
RE: Harpoon 3 scenarios for the PlayersDB - 4/19/2009 12:06:38 AM   
Bucks


Posts: 679
Joined: 7/27/2006
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		Well since I was "absent" everyone can start the applause for me for this now I'm back...

quote:


Sent: Wednesday 8th April 2009 - 2127 EST (Australian) - GMT +10

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2077959&mpage=1�


Rusty,

I’m not 100% on this, as I’m not sure if you changed the coding or just the default installation behaviour.

Open the harpoon.ini file, back it up first and Try modding these lines;

============================================
; Directories where resource files are stored
; ============================================

ResDirCount 4

ResDir1 C:\Matrix Games\Harpoon 3 Advanced Naval Warfare 3.10\DATABASES\ANWDB\Text

ResDir2 C:\Matrix Games\Harpoon 3 Advanced Naval Warfare 3.10\Resource\DBPics <- EDIT THIS AFTER CREATING AND PLACING PHOTOS IN RELEVANT DATABASE FOLDER.

To:

ResDir2 C:\Matrix Games\Harpoon 3 Advanced Naval Warfare 3.10\DATABASES\ANWDB\DBPics

ResDir3 C:\Matrix Games\Harpoon 3 Advanced Naval Warfare 3.10\Resource

ResDir4 C:\Matrix Games\Harpoon 3 Advanced Naval Warfare 3.10\Sound

Warn them they risk causing issues, but I believe that modification used to work. All you’re doing is telling the game where to look for the pics?


I do know a little about the game, people just have to ask. I'm really a nice guy

I'm Australian, get over it I'm joking - All you have to do is work out what I'm joking about.

Cheers



Darren


_____________________________

*******************************************
Editor HUD-II/HUD3 Harpoon Databases

http://www.taitennek.com/hud3-db/hud3-index.htm

Development Team H3ANW v3.8, v3.9, v3.10 & v3.10.1
*******************************************

(in reply to hermanhum)
Post #: 25
RE: Harpoon 3 scenarios for the PlayersDB - 4/19/2009 2:07:40 AM   
CV32


Posts: 1046
Joined: 5/15/2006
From: The Rock, Canada
Status: offline 		Welcome back, Darren.

_____________________________

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HC3 development group member for HCE
Author of HCDB official database for HCE
Harpgamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to Bucks)
Post #: 26
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