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RE: Surveying the Empire

 
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RE: Surveying the Empire - 4/8/2009 8:02:07 PM   
John 3rd


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Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Ohhhhhh....I FEEL so much more capable now with that Sage advice!  In this day and age it is so much more important to FEEL something then DOOOO something!  What kind of comment was that?  Better end this quick note right now!

I won't be able to do anything with the STF for at least a 10-14 days so we'll see what develops.



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RE: Surveying the Empire - 4/8/2009 10:52:18 PM   
ny59giants


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quote:

What kind of comment was that?


If you need an answer to this you will need to slow down before you use the keyboard when you make a reply.

You "seem" to be taking feedback in rather personal manner rather than in a constructive way.

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Post #: 752
RE: Surveying the Empire - 4/9/2009 12:26:05 AM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

quote:

What kind of comment was that?


If you need an answer to this you will need to slow down before you use the keyboard when you make a reply.

You "seem" to be taking feedback in rather personal manner rather than in a constructive way.


I was making a political comment regarding our Imperious Leader here in the States you DOLT!!!! It is a rough crowd these days...

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Post #: 753
RE: Surveying the Empire - 4/9/2009 12:28:22 AM   
ny59giants


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Status: offline 		Be Specific!!!

I cannot read your mind all the time. . . . never mind, false premise. 

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Post #: 754
RE: Surveying the Empire - 4/9/2009 12:29:48 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Just left a message on your voicemail!  I did not want to rile the waves by being TOOOOOO specific.  I have a Forlorn Hopes turn to run now...

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 4/9/2009 1:19:33 AM >

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Post #: 755
RE: Surveying the Empire - 4/9/2009 1:19:19 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Brad and I had email flashing fast and furious today.  Perhaps we are over-reacting but I hadn't really noticed how things were until this morning.  It is amazing to think that one can ignore issues within an entire Theatre of Operations but I did.  Given just a few days we can begin to improve things, a week would allow us to get pieces in place, and two weeks will close the window of opportunity.

Things got me thinking about how well this has gone in seven months of action.  A 2x2 takes a bit more work in setting things up to start with and reasonably clear communication between both players.  We have had that throughout the campaign.  A tandem game requires compatibility and I strongly feel that Brad and I have that.  We have had a good time emailing everyday and communicating over game developments whenever needed.

With New Zealand about finished I will be shifting to a defensive posture throughout most of the Pacific.  Still plan to look at Landing at Canton Isle sometime within June but past that there is no real plan now.  It is my hope to bring the American Fleet to battle.  This is why, as we have talked about above, more recon assets and SS are moving into the Pacific.  Beyond Canton I figure to be moving troops around and generally getting the house in order for the second half of 1942.

As shown within Forlorn Hopes I am rarely willing to sit still with the Fleet but we need to make sure that the choices are sound, attainable, and reasonable...




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RE: Surveying the Empire - 4/9/2009 2:02:27 AM   
2ndACR


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Status: offline 		Instead of placing 1 const BN on each of those bases, you should deploy all 4 to your forward base to do rapid building.......2-3 Tabby units can then airlift each unit to the next base and so on.

I usually have 2-3 Engineer Reg assigned to Cen and So PAC and all 3 hit the same base.......I keep enough transports to lift 1 Reg at a time close by. They then move from base to base once it reaches my comfort zone.

My const Bn's are grouped by 6's........with enough AK's or AP's to shift 2 at a time. They also all travel in a group to each base. But massed Tabby's serve the same purpose and can rapidly shift your construction units around from base to base.

But I would really think about keeping the 4 BN's together and go to a single base at a time........that speeds things up alot better.

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Post #: 757
First Battle of Baker Island - 4/9/2009 4:31:56 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
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Status: offline 		My little raid at Baker nets a small prize!






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RE: First Battle of Baker Island - 4/9/2009 6:00:26 PM   
EWGuttag


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Status: offline 		John 3rd,

Looks like overkill to me!  A puny AVD versus 1 CL and 8 DDs.  Enjoy.

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Post #: 759
Round Robin - 4/9/2009 6:50:07 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
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Status: offline 		This is the morning email exchange between Brad and I (Brad's thoughts are in the bold):

Took about an hour to do the turn.  Choices/Comments:
1.  After a bunch of thinking your points make a bunch of sense.  Support Force (which was moving to Tokyo) headed back to Singapore...

We have assume there are only two types of CV forces we will encounter:
5 USN CVs or 3 RN CVs.  Period.  Anything that can't handle those forces shouldn't engage.

2.  CAP TRAP:  Ordered that TF to Attack Bombay shipping.  We have to get them in close enough to draw the bombers.  Had a concern though.  Since they are now using 50% of their fighters to escort bombers is that a good thing or bad thing if those Fighters comes along with the bombers?  Not really sure of an answer.

The TF should stop 6 hexes from Bombay; this is outside of Hurri range for sure, and I think it's outside of extended P-40 range?  Let's look that up.  It's definitely outside P-40 normal range.  I also think those fighters at Bombay may not be on escort, but rather on Ground Attack to build experience.

3.  There are some ships heading Canton that will be in for a rude surprise.  Lines up 3 Ro-SS across their path and formed up a STF to time hitting Canton with their arrival.

4.  Bombay--Karachi:  I don't think you should even move near Karachi.  I've been thinking about this for a couple of days and feel that we should put blocking forces in Malir and wheel the while army into Bombay to try and reduce that.  It is doubtful we can take either but it makes a bunch more sense to concentrate on one instead of split our forces against both.  My .02 there.

My only thinking was that we can pin them easier in an Urban hex, than we can on clear terrain on that River.  Other option is to turn Malir into fort.  But the plan right now is to move 2 divisions into Urban hex and park.  Moving into urban hex has side benefit of shutting down industry.

5.  Northern India:  What are those two units doing over there?  There are two Allied units that just moved into the town you took.  Can we get a surrender there perhaps?

No, they are going to retreat to Rawapindi.  Annoying.

6.  Pangrim-Mandalore:  Same comment goes for those 3 units trapped on the coast.

We could move there, but then whatever unit does that is stuck moving back.  I suppose we could transport them out.  Those units have no offensive ability, so the only thing the Allies can do is lift out fragments, or they just starve.  They can't hurt us, so I haven't paid any attention other than occasional bombing/training raid.

7.  KB is finally concentrated at Auckland.  Barring major changes, it will stay there until the 15th and then move to support the Canton Invasion.  It will then take up residence at Kwajalein barring major raids and operations.

Great! 

8.  Bombay:  With them only lfying 48 Fighters on CAP there is an excellent chance we could overwhelm those Fighters with a Sweep:  150 vs 48.  If they still choose to divide their Fighters then we do it again.  We simply must crack the Bombay defense.  I believe that will hinge on Battleship bombardment but first the air has to be whittled down some.

That's the other option; with the airbases not yet to lvl-4, that makes the reduced bombloads impossible to follow that up with an effective bombing attack.  But we would shoot down a bunch of fighters.  Sort of waiting until the bombers can bomb.

9.  Singapore:  The warships aren't repairing very fast there due to all those AK-AP.  Can we move them en masse to Palembang for a week or two so those BBs get repaired?

Probably a good idea, or Saigon, either way.

Lotta thoughts here...


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RE: Surveying the Empire - 4/9/2009 6:51:55 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

Instead of placing 1 const BN on each of those bases, you should deploy all 4 to your forward base to do rapid building.......2-3 Tabby units can then airlift each unit to the next base and so on.

I usually have 2-3 Engineer Reg assigned to Cen and So PAC and all 3 hit the same base.......I keep enough transports to lift 1 Reg at a time close by. They then move from base to base once it reaches my comfort zone.

My const Bn's are grouped by 6's........with enough AK's or AP's to shift 2 at a time. They also all travel in a group to each base. But massed Tabby's serve the same purpose and can rapidly shift your construction units around from base to base.

But I would really think about keeping the 4 BN's together and go to a single base at a time........that speeds things up alot better.


This is a good thought Sir. I've re-ordered the TF to concentrate the Con Btn.


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Bombay Aerial Action - 4/9/2009 11:34:22 PM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		We start to reclaim the air this day.





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RE: Bombay Aerial Action - 4/9/2009 11:40:23 PM   
Q-Ball


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Status: offline 		We're going to try an old-fashioned sweep in a day or two, when those units rest up from that air combat. I bet we can get 4-1 kills or so over Bombay, because we now have 6 Zero Daitai in theater, not to mention Oscars.

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The Rising Sun - 4/9/2009 11:46:03 PM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		Isn't this a pretty picture for JFB!






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The Rising Sun - 4/9/2009 11:53:52 PM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Shifting to the Northern end of the Empire we find some interesting possibilities. What do people think of the questions posed here?

Won't be able to respond for a while since I need to head for Denver tonight.






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RE: The Rising Sun - 4/10/2009 12:06:57 AM   
Alikchi2

 

Posts: 1785
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Status: offline 		Yeah, cap them! Easy meat now could buy you a LOT of time later.

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RE: The Rising Sun - 4/10/2009 3:16:36 AM   
Q-Ball


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Status: offline 		Wow. The Aleutians are EMPTY? I guess that blows my Aleutians offensive paranoia. They are not doing anything up there.

If they are EMPTY, we could occupy them without fortifying them; just set up a seaplane base, so we can see those bastards coming.

Strange. I suppose those old BB's should just repair in Japan now, they could finish off that Ops damage.

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Post #: 767
RE: The Rising Sun - 4/10/2009 4:09:48 AM   
n01487477


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Status: offline 		Take Kodiac & Cold Bay / Dutch Harbour(whichever has the best AF) at the same time, take 2 or 3 divisions and mountainous troops for Kodiac and LB and AV for DH/CB ... then grab Anchorage if you're game...

You can always come back and land on the others - why give them the chance to prepare, transport troops by air.  It will dissect the Allies in the Nth...

I failed cause I didn't take enough, but I think IF I had taken Kodiac, Nemo might not be up the garden path - pounding away at my door right now... of course I could be wrong.

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RE: The Rising Sun - 4/10/2009 8:26:47 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
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Status: offline 		I like moving in and grabbing the bases on the cheap and using them for Recon.

Personally feel pretty crazy for even thinking of advancing east; however, it does put the start point farther away from the Kuriles and Northern Japan.  There is real benefit in that.  I will await my esteemed partner's final opinion before acting.  It could be so simple as using those 6 DD as a Fast TF and load a SNLF on for grabbing Unmak and Dutch Harbor.

There are 4 units in Kodiak and it is Sz-4 AF.  In taking the points listed we could open a free training area for B-17/B-24...

 

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RE: The Rising Sun - 4/10/2009 9:23:03 AM   
Rainer79

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

Take Kodiac & Cold Bay / Dutch Harbour(whichever has the best AF) at the same time, take 2 or 3 divisions and mountainous troops for Kodiac and LB and AV for DH/CB ... then grab Anchorage if you're game...


As I just had to take the western Aleutians against Allied resistance here are my € 0,02.

Assuming there are 2 US regiments at Kodiak with decent forts 2-3 divisions won't be enough to take that base in a reasonable amount of time (i.e. before winter sets in). That mountainous terrain really kills your adjusted AV.

At the very least you should occupy Adak though if they are really empty I would also go for Dutch Harbor, Umnak and Cold Bay. Put a base force and at least a SNLF into each of these forward bases and let the bad terrain work in your favor.

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RE: The Rising Sun - 4/10/2009 1:08:40 PM   
skrewball


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Status: offline 		Hey all,

John I've been a big fan of your other AAR which is what brought me here, but I do have a question as to the Allies tactics...

Isn't this ultimate Sir Robin defense just a tad bit annoying?

There hasn't been any attempt to interdict or harrass you at all. India? Take it. New Zealand? Sorry Mates! Now the Allies just abandon Alaska because they don't want to lose the points? What's next? Hawaii? Can you imagine the political whirlwind that would accompany the lack of any action in the time of war? There has always been talk of what was "gamey" in WITP. I feel that the act of doing absolutely nothing until 1943 by the Allies just so they can "guarentee" victories is gamey.

Other than that...love the AAR format...keep it up!

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RE: The Rising Sun - 4/10/2009 1:18:41 PM   
n01487477


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Amen Skrewball !!!

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RE: The Rising Sun - 4/10/2009 2:16:08 PM   
Q-Ball


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Status: offline 		There isn't much downside to taking empty bases. There can be downside to putting a large GARRISON on those bases, but not in turning the flag to the Rising Sun. At the least, it keeps them from building it, and gives us advance warning down the chain, when someone finally shows up to take it.

I would go ahead and fill the void, but probably just set up a seaplane base. If they have fallen back so far, chances are they are punting until spring '43 at the least, because there are only 4 more months of campaigning up there before winter anyway.

As to Sir Robin in General and our esteemed opponents.........
I think FOW, who is managing the west side of the map, didn't intend a Sir Robin at the outset. He was actually pretty aggressive with some Allied cruisers, in the DEI and in the Bay of Bengal, but ultimately paid for it terms of sunk cruisers. I think our advance in the DEI was too fast to make any kind of Allied stand (it was done by end of January), and in India he did hold, in fact a bit too long as he almost got trapped in part of India. So I don't know that FOW has played that way, I just think he has borne the brunt of the IJA, and had no choice but to fall back.

Wolfpack, on the other hand, who is handling the USN, has pretty much Sir Robined. That may be wise, another time for that debate, he hasn't lost a CV at any rate. He also lost a couple cruisers early being aggressive, but since the Allies lost 10 cruisers in the opening weeks, we have rarely seen an Allied warship larger than a DD. I find the total lack of Allied activity in the eastern Pacific puzzling, but who knows, maybe he is about to crush us with a 5 division landing on Honshu. But we have only seen serious activity at Kodiak, Midway, Johnston/Palmyra, and Papete/Bora Bora. At Fiji, they pulled out the mobile Bde. Noumea was empty. New Zealand was left to it's own.

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RE: The Rising Sun - 4/10/2009 3:49:24 PM   
modrow

 

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Status: offline 		Skrewball,

quote:

ORIGINAL: skrewball

Hey all,

John I've been a big fan of your other AAR which is what brought me here, but I do have a question as to the Allies tactics...

Isn't this ultimate Sir Robin defense just a tad bit annoying?

There hasn't been any attempt to interdict or harrass you at all. India? Take it. New Zealand? Sorry Mates! Now the Allies just abandon Alaska because they don't want to lose the points? What's next? Hawaii? Can you imagine the political whirlwind that would accompany the lack of any action in the time of war? There has always been talk of what was "gamey" in WITP. I feel that the act of doing absolutely nothing until 1943 by the Allies just so they can "guarentee" victories is gamey.

Other than that...love the AAR format...keep it up!


ok, so what would have been your op ? Target, timing, OOB, strategic significance of what you are doing, expected long time outcome if nippon picks up the gauntlet or if it choses to ignore...

Or would you just have shipped a few LCUs to some of the line islands or the Aleutians and get them wiped out in order to do something ? I would consider running doomed ops which do not achieve anything significant gamey and most unrealistic. Do you think that it is a sign of quality of a military command if it is responsive to public opinion ?

Please don't get my question wrong. I am a big fan of significant operations by the Allied early in the war. I even was afraid some might occur and tried to start a discussion along these lines earlier in this thread - and was told that essentially nothing significant could be done anyway before mid 42. That is why I am always hunting for good plans, and your comment seems to indicate you have seen good opportunities which were not picked up. Please let us in on them.

Thanks

Hartwig

< Message edited by hartwig.modrow -- 4/10/2009 3:50:23 PM >

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Post #: 774
RE: The Rising Sun - 4/10/2009 4:34:40 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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Status: offline 		That's exactly right, Hartwig.

The Allied "gaminess" is a function of Japanese "gaminess" which is a function of the vast unhistorical foreknowledge that both sides have in this game.  So the game is gamey!

Both sides begin knowing a heck of alot about their own and their enemy's strengths and weaknesses.  As a result, the Japanese side can run amock for well over a year.  The Allied player, also blessed with this foreknowledge, recognizes this and, like a turtle, pulls back into his shell until the time to strike arrives.

Neither side can be faulted for what they are doing - both sides are playing smart and well.  If you think the Allies aren't playing well, just wait until the end of '43.  By then folks will probably be showering them with praises and heaping abuses on John and Q-Ball for whatever ultimately leads to the Japanese downfall.  In both cases, the criticism is Monday-morning quarterbacking.

Think this only goes one way?  In my game with John (Forlorn Hopes), the Allies have assaulted Japanese-held Midway, Iwo Jima, Formosa, and the eastern Chinese Coast without the still very large KB from making an appearance to defend the crumbling Empire.  In real life, the Japs would have committed the KB in a glorious, bloody, and futile Banzaii attack multiple times by now.  But John isn't under political pressure and can evaluate the situation more calmly.  He knows the KB would get chewed up, so he bides his time hoping to wait for more favorable circumstances.  Is this "gamey" as some seem to define the word?  Yes, the real Japs wouldn't have been so patient.  Is it gamey in the sense of being an invalid or shameful stragey in this game?  Of course not.

Once again, I say "pah!" to allegations of "gamey."


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Post #: 775
RE: The Rising Sun - 4/10/2009 5:05:00 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
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Status: offline 		Maybe I'm being a little paranoid, but I would try to build up some of those bases. They are in the "Great White North" where there is is nasty weather much of the year which cuts down on air power, has those cold area defensive benefits for 4 months, and those bases are all mtn hexes (x3 combat bonus).

See Nemo vs Damian's AARs to see how fast an Allied player can move across this area.

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Post #: 776
RE: The Rising Sun - 4/10/2009 5:10:12 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I think Arctic winter conditions only apply from December 1 through February.  It seems odd that March isn't winter up there, but that's the case.

Why don't the Japs give some thought to which way they WANT the Allies to attack in '42 (assuming the Allies are going to) and then try to entice them into attacking that way, allowing the Allies to make some progress so that they commit everything to that campaign only to find that the going eventually gets very tough.  It's really hard to switch directions once your fully committed, due to logistics and the need to pre-prep troops for assaults.

I'm not sure HOW the Japs can entice the Allies to attack in a particular area, but it's worth some thought.

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Post #: 777
RE: The Rising Sun - 4/10/2009 5:43:01 PM   
Q-Ball


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From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		Dan, good question as always.

I have no idea how to entice them in. Not sure we really can, and at any rate, with Allied intel they should have a pretty good feel for where our ground troops are, and are not.

But since your asking, I would welcome an attack on the Marshalls. There are multiple airbases to launch Betty strikes from, and we have the airpower nearby to make life miserable for the Allies. Troops and KB are not far behind. This area would be great!

Probably won't happen though, if the Aleutians look dead, I suppose maybe the Gilberts, or Wake, or Tongatapu. One thing I like about taking New Zealand, is that it takes the New Guinea/Lunga area off the board in terms of counterstrikes.

We are also only talking about the USN, RN is another story.

We are relying heavily on Ms. Betty for our defense in the eastern Pacific. We have concentrated on building size-4 airbases, keeping them supplied. We have approx. 160 Betty and 100 Zero ready to move at moment's notice, so they can get to any hotspot other than Aleuts very quickly. This is our mobile defense. At this stage of the war, 4 Betty Daitai with Zero escort CAN penetrate USN CV CAP and punish the CVs.

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Post #: 778
RE: The Rising Sun - 4/10/2009 6:09:40 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		You DON'T want them taking shortcuts that lead to your heartland.  At present, the only viable shortcut is the Aleutians.  Stiffen them up  and then when winter arrives you get a breather that takes you into early '43.  Iwo Jima and Marcus are too exposed right now for them to take and hold without severe headaches, but you need to be building them up so that they are fearsome indeed by the time the Allies are ready to attack in '43.  Right now, Wake, Eniwetok, and Tarawa need to be fearsome (as you well know).

I'd think you'd want to entice them to a southern approach - Pago Pago, Fiji, New Zealand, and eventually New Caledonia and the Solomons.  If they're fighting THERE in '43 they are a LONG way from where they can hurt you.

So make CenPac and NoPac fearsome and allow them to make some progress in SoPac.  Don't roll over and play dead, but don't build up your front lines (especially at Pago Pago and Suva) so heavily that they think their forced to take another route.  They probably aren't ready to move yet, but by autumn they will be and if you can entice them to move in that direction, you've accomplished something.

What game was it that Moses was most recently involved in, where his Jap opponent did a spectacular job of methodically retreating so that the Allies never could deliver any kind of knockout punch.  It drove Moses crazy and was very effective.

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Post #: 779
Canton Fighting - 4/10/2009 6:54:17 PM   
John 3rd


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Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Had a VERY late night and only got up at 1030. Did the 2x2 Turn and this screenshot only to find many new posts! Cool. Will post this, start my second cup of tea, and read what you guys have to say.






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< Message edited by John 3rd -- 4/10/2009 7:03:55 PM >

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Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 780
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