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AEaster Egg - 4/12/2009 8:04:44 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline 		Well, the Easter ham has 3 more hours to go and it’s either cut the grass, or do this, so …

Seems Japan had about 50 or so older 1st and 2nd class DDs (Momo, Momi, Kamikaze, Mutsuki, Whackytacky), that upgraded, converted, and refitted into darn near everything afloat.

Just taking Momi for example, there was 9 that were converted to PBs in ’39-’40 (what we would call APDs), 5 that were converted to training ships (and remilitarized, eventually), and 3 retained as DDs. Both the DDs and the APDs upgrade over the years, but there’s also a one-way conversion option for the DDs to go to APDs.

Neat thing is that some of the Momi upgrade/conversion options are shared with the Whackytackys, so the art becomes multi-class fungible (I call them Mo-Takes, in the art pile). That’s to say nothing about the Kamikaze and Mutsuki classes. Woof !!

So here’s some art for all the old, decrepit (but astonishingly useful, if you are smart) Japanese DDs.





Attachment (1)

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RE: AEaster Egg - 4/12/2009 8:56:57 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Nice job, John, as always.

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RE: AEaster Egg - 4/12/2009 9:07:53 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Very nice work.



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RE: AEaster Egg - 4/13/2009 9:15:33 AM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		Surely the prolific details of all shipsides will look great on the combat screens, it is just too bad some of the artwork details will be lost on the ship detail screen due to the non-inclusion of some kind of magnification of that artwork by the original game engine.
That ships detail screen is after all, part of an encyclopaedia of sorts.

< Message edited by m10bob -- 4/13/2009 9:18:01 AM >

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RE: AEaster Egg - 4/13/2009 4:59:34 PM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm....magnification. That can surely be done, can it not, in lieu of a larger art frame? Obviously for some future patch/enhancement mind you.

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RE: AEaster Egg - 4/13/2009 5:16:13 PM   
RevRick


Posts: 2617
Joined: 9/16/2000
From: Thomasville, GA
Status: offline 		I just know you have it somewhere, John, just because your work is excellent. But, I think (dubious concept that it is) that I dimly remember seeing some info about the old four pipers in the USN - including my favorite conversion, the long range escort. Any details available on that little ditty?

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RE: AEaster Egg - 4/13/2009 5:49:30 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		Whackytackys???

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RE: AEaster Egg - 4/13/2009 6:22:04 PM   
witpqs


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From: Argleton
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quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

Whackytackys???


Haven't you read your WWII history? Their engines make a very distinctive sound when go to flank speed to attack submarines. The submarine crews described it as "wackytackywackytackywackytackywackytackywackytackywackytackywackytackywackytackywackytacky".


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RE: AEaster Egg - 4/13/2009 6:24:56 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Since John isn't around at the moment... From top to bottom, pre-war DD Clemson, LR DD Clemson, LR DE Clemson (fewer torps):




Attachment (1)

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RE: AEaster Egg - 4/13/2009 6:33:48 PM   
John Lansford

 

Posts: 2662
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Status: offline 		Where did the aft stack go on the conversions?  Did they trunk the exhaust over to the 3rd stack, or just replace the entire engine room with something else?

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RE: AEaster Egg - 4/13/2009 6:42:44 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		I seem to remember that they took some of the boilers out and replaced them with bunkerage, hence the increased range.

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RE: AEaster Egg - 4/13/2009 6:45:24 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		Very nice!..

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RE: AEaster Egg - 4/13/2009 7:20:52 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline 		Yepperino ! Brother Terminus has a good take on the DD evolution. Thanks Termie!

I love those old ‘cans’ too. Probably spent more time on the old IJN and old USN cans than anything else (btw, whackytacky = Wakatake). So here’s Clemson, in full array – also Wickes, and there’s also a lend-lease Wickes version that went to the Sovs, that AE calls the Viiks Class (since the Sovs didn’t have a name for them, just numbers).

M‘Kay, the top row is the DD evolution, the next row is some of them converted to DEs (replacing torps with more DC throwers), next row is DMS, APD, and AVD versions (tried to show Willie Keith coming out of the clip shack on the DMS, but ..).





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RE: AEaster Egg - 4/13/2009 7:32:13 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
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From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

Whackytackys???


Haven't you read your WWII history? Their engines make a very distinctive sound when go to flank speed to attack submarines. The submarine crews described it as "wackytackywackytackywackytackywackytackywackytackywackytackywackytackywackytackywackytacky".




Yup... Came from them being powered by two-stroke moped engines...

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RE: AEaster Egg - 4/13/2009 8:16:00 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford
Where did the aft stack go on the conversions?  Did they trunk the exhaust over to the 3rd stack, or just replace the entire engine room with something else?

Yeah, They lost a fire room and had the stack removed as a consequence. Original Wickes could just barely (but not quite) cross the Atlantic on her bunkerage, Clemson was the version that just allowed them to do so.

In War-2, they both lost a fire room (and a stack) to increased bunkerage. Since their boiler rooms were pressurized, this was not a bad thing. It reduced top speed, somewhat, but cruise (escort) speed was unaffected, in the main.

Other versions lost two fire rooms, and two stacks, with the extra space given over to troop accommodations (APD) or air ops equipage (AVD). Stack trunking was incidental; you could strike the front fire room and kill the aft stack, or, as in the APDs strike the front 2 fire rooms and kill the front two stacks. Life is uncertain.


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RE: AEaster Egg - 4/13/2009 8:18:54 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
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From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Hey John - in WWI were the Wickes and Clemsons coal fired or were they oil from the get go?

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RE: AEaster Egg - 4/13/2009 8:19:55 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline 		Oil, Bro.

And it was yet more bizarre. There were three different boiler mfgs (with three different designs), and four different construction yards, and a Bath, Maine built Wickes could perform the same as a Newport News Clemson ... oh, it gets simply scrump-diddly-ishous.

< Message edited by JWE -- 4/13/2009 8:30:58 PM >

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RE: AEaster Egg - 4/14/2009 12:36:32 AM   
RevRick


Posts: 2617
Joined: 9/16/2000
From: Thomasville, GA
Status: offline 		Spent a whole lot of time with Mr. Friedman in his explanation of them.. and then some. Also have a couple of other books in storage which have some incredible pictures of the DDs of the Allen type and some even earlier. Hardy souls, those old tin can men were.

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RE: AEaster Egg - 4/14/2009 1:57:10 AM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RevRick

Spent a whole lot of time with Mr. Friedman in his explanation of them.. and then some. Also have a couple of other books in storage which have some incredible pictures of the DDs of the Allen type and some even earlier. Hardy souls, those old tin can men were.


Mr. Friedman is an excellent source, although it takes a bit of digging to follow the 4-piper upgrades. If you do not have it, be sure and get his Amphibious Ships Book.

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RE: AEaster Egg - 4/14/2009 5:53:36 AM   
Buck Beach

 

Posts: 1973
Joined: 6/25/2000
From: Upland,CA,USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

Yepperino ! Brother Terminus has a good take on the DD evolution. Thanks Termie!

I love those old ‘cans’ too. Probably spent more time on the old IJN and old USN cans than anything else (btw, whackytacky = Wakatake). So here’s Clemson, in full array – also Wickes, and there’s also a lend-lease Wickes version that went to the Sovs, that AE calls the Viiks Class (since the Sovs didn’t have a name for them, just numbers).

M‘Kay, the top row is the DD evolution, the next row is some of them converted to DEs (replacing torps with more DC throwers), next row is DMS, APD, and AVD versions (tried to show Willie Keith coming out of the clip shack on the DMS, but ..).






I'm looking forward to seeing the various ASW capabilities of these. I believe the Wickes class was pretty good in WITP in the early part of the war.


< Message edited by Buck Beach -- 4/14/2009 5:55:01 AM >

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RE: AEaster Egg - 4/14/2009 1:39:37 PM   
RevRick


Posts: 2617
Joined: 9/16/2000
From: Thomasville, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


quote:

ORIGINAL: RevRick

Spent a whole lot of time with Mr. Friedman in his explanation of them.. and then some. Also have a couple of other books in storage which have some incredible pictures of the DDs of the Allen type and some even earlier. Hardy souls, those old tin can men were.


Mr. Friedman is an excellent source, although it takes a bit of digging to follow the 4-piper upgrades. If you do not have it, be sure and get his Amphibious Ships Book.



Have to wait for the Finance Department to give approval for another one of those (specially with AE expected sometime in the relatively near future, hopefully!) But, somewhere in a storage box (until we get to our new parish,) I have a lot of other books on tin cans (as you can imagine from my sigpic.) But thanks for the heads up..

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RE: AEaster Egg - 4/16/2009 4:36:00 AM   
Richrd

 

Posts: 340
Joined: 6/22/2002
Status: offline 		I'll buy this game the day it is released, and I will wait patiently for that day. I have never posted asking when. But I'm reading this thread and wondering if it is gameplay which dictates the day of release or if it's the need to come up with a tiny little picture, which I will probably never see, and certainly not attach any importance to, of a destroyer with one more or less boiler and stack.

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RE: AEaster Egg - 4/16/2009 4:43:45 AM   
Richrd

 

Posts: 340
Joined: 6/22/2002
Status: offline 		Forgive me. I meant no offense. I bought the original WITP the day it was released and only began my first campaign vs the AI after 18 months of comparing every detail of the scenario and database with my own sources. I'm still playing that first campaign. It just crossed my mind is all. Some people should be developers and some should be modders.

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RE: AEaster Egg - 4/16/2009 1:32:04 PM   
Mad66

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 10/21/2007
Status: offline 		I have every confidence in the team working on AE. They'll get it out as soon as they reasonably can. All impatience to the contrary, of course, since I think we all want it NOW!

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RE: AEaster Egg - 4/20/2009 7:00:26 AM   
Kull


Posts: 2625
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Richrd

I'll buy this game the day it is released, and I will wait patiently for that day. I have never posted asking when. But I'm reading this thread and wondering if it is gameplay which dictates the day of release or if it's the need to come up with a tiny little picture, which I will probably never see, and certainly not attach any importance to, of a destroyer with one more or less boiler and stack.


I can't speak for the team, but it's pretty safe to say they wouldn't hold up release for the kind of details we're seeing here. However, once the project was basically put on hold for an AI re-write, that gave the graphics guys more time add the kind of tweaks and finishing touches we're seeing here. I suspect the AI "restart" allowed time for many other other little upgrades that otherwise would only have appeared in patches, if at all.

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