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Ship Killer No.1...the price goes to....

 
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Ship Killer No.1...the price goes to.... - 5/21/2002 2:04:57 PM   
Odin


Posts: 1052
Joined: 1/3/2001
From: Germany, Wanne-Eickel
Status: offline 		..the B17!! :eek:

Famous, they seem to be quit effective against APs...in the games i played, they scored about 60% of all hits on ships.
Post #: 1
Re: Ship Killer No.1...the price goes to.... - 5/21/2002 2:06:27 PM   
U2


Posts: 3332
Joined: 7/17/2001
From: Västerås,Sweden
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Odin
[B]..the B17!! :eek:

Famous, they seem to be quit effective against APs...in the games i played, they scored about 60% of all hits on ships. [/B][/QUOTE]

I have never used them that way. I use the Maurader, Mitchell and the A-20. What altitude do you set them on?

Dan

(in reply to Odin)
Post #: 2
- 5/21/2002 2:09:59 PM   
Ross Moorhouse


Posts: 2354
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		If you have your Forts and Liberators set to Port Attacks you will see heaps of ships taking hits.

Also the reports coming back in via the comabt Reports from this will give you some intel as to what is berthed in the port.

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(in reply to Odin)
Post #: 3
- 5/21/2002 2:14:13 PM   
Odin


Posts: 1052
Joined: 1/3/2001
From: Germany, Wanne-Eickel
Status: offline 		about 5000 feet or lower. The Marauders and Mitchells are of course more accurate, but the B17 can hit the the area north of Rabaul, were the japanese runs many reinforcements.

Could not believe it.

Also, using them in night to hit ports could simply smash a task force. I spotted a task force in Shortland with 2 Battleships and they were hit several times, sending both BB´s back to Rabaul badly injured.

(in reply to Odin)
Post #: 4
Great - 5/21/2002 2:23:10 PM   
U2


Posts: 3332
Joined: 7/17/2001
From: Västerås,Sweden
Status: offline 		Thanks!

I will use the info in my two PBEM games as Allied to crush them!:D Schhhhhh...;)

(in reply to Odin)
Post #: 5
- 5/21/2002 2:27:10 PM   
Odin


Posts: 1052
Joined: 1/3/2001
From: Germany, Wanne-Eickel
Status: offline 		Too bad the B17 seems to use 500lb bombs only...i know they were able to carry 1600lb armor piercing bombs and several other calibers, that should be corrected.

(in reply to Odin)
Post #: 6
B17s - 5/21/2002 6:35:24 PM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		Good Lord! Are you saying B17s are effective anti shipping platforms? Bull Oney! They were historically horrible as we all know. They handled like pigs at low alltitude so were never used that way, otherwise, hitting moving ships from alltitude was about as effective as killing ants by dropping uncooked rice on them, a few at a time, from a standing position. Any ex USAAF pilots on your design team who are a still advocates of high level anti ship bombing? Is Captain Kelly there in his next life? Just kidding, but B17s did suck in this role, as did most high level strategic bombers.

Do B26's carry torpedoes as AS weapons at short range? They used to carry two if I remember correctly, then went to bombs as range increased.

Where is my copy! Jeez, reading these posts is probably a lot like the dubious practice of scarification by Goth Kids!:D

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Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to Odin)
Post #: 7
- 5/21/2002 7:39:55 PM   
Odin


Posts: 1052
Joined: 1/3/2001
From: Germany, Wanne-Eickel
Status: offline 		it worked in the game for me..mostly.

Using guided weapons will be better from high altitude, like the germans did:

http://www.tfcbooks.com/images/teslafaq/missile1.htm


Arent such weapons available for the US?

(in reply to Odin)
Post #: 8
- 5/21/2002 8:37:22 PM   
osros

 

Posts: 52
Joined: 5/3/2002
Status: offline 		Those 8ins guns on the US CL's are awsome! I notice it last night tore them up! My next TF with be as many CL's as I can put together in one or two major TF's. Massive Fire Power.

So for my CL's did a better job in Surface combat than the BB's.

:rolleyes:

(in reply to Odin)
Post #: 9
Guns?? - 5/21/2002 10:13:55 PM   
ccoul

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 4/8/2002
From: Linthicum MD
Status: offline 		Eight inch guns on a CL?? I thought those were reserved for Heavy Cruisers?? Hmmm i am going to have to go back and check my ships again

(in reply to Odin)
Post #: 10
Ha! 8 Inchers... - 5/21/2002 10:18:34 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		I think that was a joke. :) B-17s can be useful at low altitudes against ships that are anchored in port (i.e. TF disbanded). Against TFs and ships underway, they are lucky to get a hit. You will also lose quite a few B-17s at lower altitudes, though you will get more hits. If you fly them at historical altitudes you won't hit a thing but you'll also suffer far fewer losses.

Regards,

- Erik

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For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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(in reply to Odin)
Post #: 11
- 5/21/2002 10:22:17 PM   
osros

 

Posts: 52
Joined: 5/3/2002
Status: offline 		Oops maybe I got my ship codes wrong it was a Heavy Cruiser!
You are correct sir, Back to school for me..:(

(in reply to Odin)
Post #: 12
- 5/21/2002 10:55:34 PM   
Paul Vebber


Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline 		HIstorically the were pretty effective against ships in port, and recall, in the game like in real life the B-17 pilots often CLAIM in the combat reports a heck of lot more than they actually accomplish...

(in reply to Odin)
Post #: 13
- 5/21/2002 11:21:15 PM   
juliet7bravo

 

Posts: 894
Joined: 5/30/2001
Status: offline 		As an innocent bystander (copy due TODAY!!!), it seems to me that the US LBA is too effective overall against shipping in the latter half of '42. Look at the historical results for LBA at Midway to see just how totally ineffectual it actually was...even PBY's were more effective than B-26's and B-17's. Is the experience factor (or FOW) enough to account for this? Maybe just the sheer number of attacks?

For that matter, from the AAR's the US Mk 15 surface torpedo seems to be too effective, in some of the AAR's it appears to have been the decisive weapon during some battles...reality is that it failed to sink a single IJN ship in 1942. Mk 15 used the same detonator as the submarine Mk 14, and didn't start getting the design flaws ironed out until very late '42, early '43, same as the Mk 14.

(in reply to Odin)
Post #: 14
- 5/21/2002 11:51:17 PM   
madflava13


Posts: 1530
Joined: 2/7/2001
From: Alexandria, VA
Status: offline 		Maybe I'm the exception, but my LBA is still getting murdered (I'm the Allies).

My fighters hold their own over PM, but quickly tire and need to be rotated. My attacks on shipping are lucky to score 1 or 2 bomb hits, and the units' morale gets tanked each time... I think the LBA is pretty historical as is.

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(in reply to Odin)
Post #: 15
- 5/22/2002 12:30:12 AM   
HMSWarspite

 

Posts: 1401
Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		I have had very good results REPORTED from B17, but only against ships unloading in port (Japanese landings at Gili Gili for example). They dont even claim hits on moving ships!
So far I have had no comments on the accuracy of the game...I did worry that the US subs were too effective, reporting hits all over the place. However, somehow the targets appear a bit reluctant to sink half the time!
Also, I have knocked enemy ships pretty well I thought, but then you look at them afterwards (at the end of the scenario), and you find 20% damage tops! This FOW is very well done.
I am reminded of the designers notes in CNA, which said something like 'if anyone complains about play balance in less than two years, we wont believe you' :)

I am not absolutely sure about the amount of info you can get easily, for example, finding high fatigue air units anywhere on the map in a hurry. For WiTP, the extra size means that information management may need more attention than grogier features?

_____________________________

I have a cunning plan, My Lord

(in reply to Odin)
Post #: 16
- 5/22/2002 12:57:40 AM   
Paul Vebber


Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline 		The key to info management to me is not to succomb to the siren song of constantly drilling down to micromanage all the details.

Instead do as many of the successful players seem to be doing and enact "standard operating proceedures" regarding teh cycles you use your units in to manage the cycles of logictics and fatigue more 'transparantly'. Yes occasionally you pay for it, but that is the commanders delimma!

THere will be discussion I'm sure about better ways to organize the information, but the bottom line in WITP will be using good "doctrine" for employing your forces and modifying it when you start seing it go sour on you.

(in reply to Odin)
Post #: 17
- 5/22/2002 3:41:29 AM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		We gave the Mk15 a dud rate in 42 of something like 80-90% so it's very lucky to hit anything in a surface battle. In my games, I celebrate when I get one Mk15 hit in a night fight. Different story altogether for the Long Lance. As for the level bombers, my experience at 6000 feet is that with enough sorties they will eventually hit stuff (and more at lower altitude), however don't jump to conclusions about the game model until you've given it a good workout. You can easlily fly 30-50 sorties per 500 pound bomb hit.

(in reply to Odin)
Post #: 18
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