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RE: Project Management - 4/21/2009 8:21:13 AM   
rroberson

 

Posts: 2050
Joined: 5/25/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Well 3 reasons being brutally honest

1. that only works if you could get anyone to work on the AI after the game was released as a PBEM only variant -  I am a PBEM junkie so the chances I would devote a fraction of the time I have if it was released and I could actually be playing is pretty low. I would far rather be playing that trying to get the AI working. So if thats my attitude and I am the main AI scripter........

2. Its never been really ready enough

3. Matrix want a product for the whole community not just PBEM so its all or nothing - quite rightly


Understandable I guess.

I have played the AI for about a week back when it first came out. After that its been all online. Frankly, no AI will ever be worth its salt when compared to a real person on the other end. To me its a shame how many resources you have thrown at it attempting to make the AI work. something the bulk of the regulars here (and I am assuming the target audience of the "advanced version" of WITP) will never use.

My biggest fear is you wont conquer that mountain in the near term and we will be set back another year or more while you chase the AI.

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Post #: 31
RE: Project Management - 4/21/2009 8:57:20 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		That is not, I repeat NOT, going to happen. You can believe that, if you believe nothing else.

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Post #: 32
RE: Project Management - 4/21/2009 12:00:40 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rroberson


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Well 3 reasons being brutally honest

1. that only works if you could get anyone to work on the AI after the game was released as a PBEM only variant -  I am a PBEM junkie so the chances I would devote a fraction of the time I have if it was released and I could actually be playing is pretty low. I would far rather be playing that trying to get the AI working. So if thats my attitude and I am the main AI scripter........

2. Its never been really ready enough

3. Matrix want a product for the whole community not just PBEM so its all or nothing - quite rightly


Understandable I guess.

I have played the AI for about a week back when it first came out. After that its been all online. Frankly, no AI will ever be worth its salt when compared to a real person on the other end. To me its a shame how many resources you have thrown at it attempting to make the AI work. something the bulk of the regulars here (and I am assuming the target audience of the "advanced version" of WITP) will never use.

My biggest fear is you wont conquer that mountain in the near term and we will be set back another year or more while you chase the AI.


You might be surprised how many people play AI-only games, me included. They probably are lot larger group than PBEM-players, despite PBEM-players being lot more active on forums. I'd think quite big majority of players do not have time for PBEM, especially since it requires regular schedule.

Against AI, I can fire up the game anytime I feel like and have time. I can play for example 1 month of gametime, leave the game for 2 months real time and come back to it.

I, for example, would never buy AE if it was PBEM only. I doubt others would buy a game without AI either.


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Post #: 33
RE: Project Management - 4/21/2009 12:10:54 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		If this is devolving into a poll of who plays what, I am AI only due to RL time-constraints (and fear of losing to so much talent on these forums).

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Post #: 34
RE: Project Management - 4/21/2009 12:29:14 PM   
Andrew Brown


Posts: 5007
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: Hex 82,170
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

If this is devolving into a poll of who plays what, I am AI only due to RL time-constraints (and fear of losing to so much talent on these forums).


Me too, pretty much (and my time constraints are so severe these days that I have a copy for AE on my PC as we speak but I am not playing it! That takes "annoying" to a whole new level).

Andrew

(in reply to m10bob)
Post #: 35
RE: Project Management - 4/21/2009 1:55:53 PM   
erstad

 

Posts: 1944
Joined: 8/3/2004
From: Midwest USA
Status: offline 		I have bought a *lot* of computer wargames over the years. Maybe 50, depending on how broadly one defines the genre. Witp is the first one I've done PBEM. I played UV against the AI all the time.

None of you had ever heard of me when I played UV. The only reason I ever got on the forums was to find a PBEM partner for Witp. Of course, once I got here you can't shut me up.

My only point is that there is quite likely a silent majority that is playing the game versus the AI. What we see on the forums is a very unrepresentative sample.

Not trying to argue that either AI or PBEM is "better." To me, that's like arguing about whether Guinness Extra Stout or dark chocolate is better. They are both quite good in different circumstances and it doesn't really matter much which is "better."

(in reply to Andrew Brown)
Post #: 36
RE: Project Management - 4/21/2009 1:59:19 PM   
oldspec4

 

Posts: 746
Joined: 11/1/2004
Status: offline 		AI only for me for all the same reasons as previously mentioned..

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Post #: 37
RE: Project Management - 4/21/2009 3:08:44 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline 		And me. Schedule is far too erratic for PBEM

B

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Post #: 38
RE: Project Management - 4/21/2009 3:13:24 PM   
PeteG662


Posts: 1263
Joined: 6/7/2004
Status: offline 		Ditto, AI

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Post #: 39
RE: Project Management - 4/21/2009 5:00:06 PM   
Grotius


Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline
quote:

To me its a shame how many resources you have thrown at it attempting to make the AI work. something the bulk of the regulars here (and I am assuming the target audience of the "advanced version" of WITP) will never use.

I'm glad the team has devoted these resources. I have played some PBEM, but of late it's been all AI, because my schedule has been erratic.

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Post #: 40
RE: Project Management - 4/21/2009 5:04:14 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		So in general we are working on the AI and the game gets released when its ready and hopefully not to far away

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Post #: 41
RE: Project Management - 4/21/2009 5:36:19 PM   
rroberson

 

Posts: 2050
Joined: 5/25/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		Well shut my mouth I honestly believed that the majority here were PBEMers.

I guess I never really felt the AI in vanilla was overly bright or challenging so I couldn't imagine anyone playing it long term.

Im use to losing so when IM beating the AI to death...

Like I said Im here waiting like every one else for the advanced version...even have one of my opponents lined up. So, give me give me give me.



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Post #: 42
RE: Project Management - 4/21/2009 6:00:10 PM   
AirGriff


Posts: 701
Joined: 10/11/2004
Status: offline 		I vote for more delays.  How on Earth would I be expected to finish my current PBEM with AE loaded on my computer taunting me every minute of every day??  I have been playing my current game for well over a year and am at the end of '43, so I need another year at least to finish the game.  So, in the interest of my self serving self, I would like to request another 12 month delay...just to sharpen things up a bit

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Post #: 43
RE: Project Management - 4/21/2009 6:04:40 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

So in general we are working on the AI and the game gets released when its ready and hopefully not to far away


If you finish it soon there's a donut in it for you...


(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 44
RE: Project Management - 4/21/2009 6:22:24 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown


quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

If this is devolving into a poll of who plays what, I am AI only due to RL time-constraints (and fear of losing to so much talent on these forums).


Me too, pretty much (and my time constraints are so severe these days that I have a copy for AE on my PC as we speak but I am not playing it! That takes "annoying" to a whole new level).

Andrew




You......have AE............on your 'puter.....................and you......(of all people).........are not playing it?.........................Aww, now that just goes waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond annoying!......... You are being the little kid eating ice cream at the window with we slobbering and hungry bums outside, looking in!.....

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Post #: 45
RE: Project Management - 4/21/2009 6:24:24 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		I'm not playing my copy either, Bob...

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Post #: 46
RE: Project Management - 4/21/2009 6:40:27 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I'm not playing my copy either, Bob...



Well....Yeah, T, but YOU have that reputation to live up to!

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Post #: 47
RE: Project Management - 4/21/2009 6:41:21 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Or down to, as the case may be...

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We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

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Post #: 48
RE: Project Management - 4/21/2009 6:47:30 PM   
Barb


Posts: 2503
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline 		Just to get an image:
How many WITP games were sold approximately?
To get the number of potential players and compare it with say thousand on this forum...


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Post #: 49
RE: Project Management - 4/21/2009 6:48:38 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		So T,

If you're not playing your copy then send it this way and I'll give it a real thorough like testing.


(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 50
RE: Project Management - 4/21/2009 6:49:12 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Sure...

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Post #: 51
RE: Project Management - 4/21/2009 6:49:58 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

So T,

If you're not playing your copy then send it this way and I'll give it a real thorough like testing.





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Post #: 52
RE: Project Management - 4/21/2009 6:51:13 PM   
vettim89


Posts: 3615
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Toledo, Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown


quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

If this is devolving into a poll of who plays what, I am AI only due to RL time-constraints (and fear of losing to so much talent on these forums).


Me too, pretty much (and my time constraints are so severe these days that I have a copy for AE on my PC as we speak but I am not playing it! That takes "annoying" to a whole new level).

Andrew




You......have AE............on your 'puter.....................and you......(of all people).........are not playing it?.........................Aww, now that just goes waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond annoying!......... You are being the little kid eating ice cream at the window with we slobbering and hungry bums outside, looking in!.....



Eddie Murphy: I got some iiiiiiice cream, I got some iiiiiiice cream, and you don't have none, cause you on da welfare and you father's an alcohooooooolic

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(in reply to m10bob)
Post #: 53
RE: Project Management - 4/21/2009 6:53:16 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb

Just to get an image:
How many WITP games were sold approximately?
To get the number of potential players and compare it with say thousand on this forum...



Matrix has always had the policy to never disclose their sales, so there's no point in waiting for anybody else to answer this one...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

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Post #: 54
RE: Project Management - 4/21/2009 6:59:23 PM   
Roughtor


Posts: 57
Joined: 11/19/2004
From: Toronto/Gdynia
Status: offline 		there should be a special opponents wanted section for "erratic schedule PBEMers" ...  why waste couple weeks vs AI every couple weeks, when you could be doing the same vs. another erratic schedule opponent...    perhaps there should be a rotation of erratic PBEMers in such games

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 55
RE: Project Management - 4/21/2009 7:00:50 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I'm not playing my copy either, Bob...



You guys keep him talkin'...I just about got his grid coordinates down!

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Post #: 56
RE: Project Management - 4/21/2009 7:02:33 PM   
Barb


Posts: 2503
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline 		Well, if it is Matrix decision to make AEs AI working, they should know what they are doing considering the AE selling 

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Post #: 57
RE: Project Management - 4/21/2009 7:13:13 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I'm not playing my copy either, Bob...



You guys keep him talkin'...I just about got his grid coordinates down!


Got him: 5°17′38″N 52°35′0″W

(in reply to m10bob)
Post #: 58
RE: Project Management - 4/21/2009 8:05:35 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Whoops! Missed!

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

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Post #: 59
RE: Project Management - 4/21/2009 8:08:16 PM   
wworld7


Posts: 1727
Joined: 2/25/2003
From: The Nutmeg State
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Whoops! Missed!


All you have to do is follow the trail of cookie crumbs, empty beer bottles and empty ice cream containers....at the end you will find Terminus. Now whether his computer is "there" is a whole other issue....

< Message edited by flipperwasirish -- 4/22/2009 12:13:02 AM >

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Flipper

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Post #: 60
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