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Better to look good than be good... - 5/21/2002 10:59:21 AM   
stevemk1a


Posts: 855
Joined: 3/30/2002
From: Penticton B.C.
Status: offline 		Okay, I've got two weeks off... time to jab at the bee's nest before I head out of town. In another thread, the best looking AFV's of WWII were mentioned. What do you guys consider the best/worst lookin' AFV of the Second World War to be? I've always liked the JgdPzIV with the L70 gun. My brother and I used to refer to it as "the Lamborghini" because of it's low and mean profile- the Puma AC and the JSIII are also really cool. On the ugly side I would nominate the British Challenger tank, or the Churchill (Brits had a talent for ugly AFV's, but I'm not an Anglophobe... in fact I still hold a British Passport). Effectiveness isn't an issue - just aesthetic value :D Pretty shallow huh?
Post #: 1
- 5/21/2002 2:10:14 PM   
WhiteRook

 

Posts: 276
Joined: 4/9/2002
From: Minneapolis, MN
Status: offline 		My vote for best looking is the Panther and Tiger. The Panther is just cool to look at - just like my old 69 Mach 1 Mustang used to be! :cool: And the Tiger, for some reason I have always felt that it was the minds eye view of a "Tank" in basic form.....

The most ugly tank I can think of was a weird A** Aussie contraption that I fail to remember the name of. Even though the first time I saw a picture of it I swore I would never forget the name of it. The darn thing was like a metal pillbox with tracks! :eek:

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Post #: 2
- 5/21/2002 3:17:01 PM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		The Panther! :D

No really, it has beautiful proportions and a nice looking turret placed just at the right place on the hull, right size (wide!) tracks etc. It looks like a sports tank :p

I also like the front view of a T-34. It looks really mean. :eek:
Otherwise, the KV-1 is a really good tank-looking tank as well.

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best and worst - 5/21/2002 3:49:55 PM   
Stahlhelm

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 1/22/2002
From: Australia
Status: offline 		I'd have to say that my favourite looking vehicle is the Tiger.
Not pretty, but there's something about the Butt-ugly menace that it projects.
Worst looking vehicle: KV2, effective but looks like the winner of a "how big a turret can you fit on this chassis" competition.

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Post #: 4
- 5/21/2002 5:24:59 PM   
Seagull

 

Posts: 80
Joined: 5/7/2002
From: Halifax, NS, Canada
Status: offline 		I've always liked the look of the Hetzer. I know that it's armor is thin and that placing a gun that loads from the right into the right-hand side of a vehicle isn't inspired thinking, but they almost manage to be cute ;)

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Post #: 5
- 5/21/2002 7:13:44 PM   
M4Jess


Posts: 5140
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: DC
Status: offline 		You people are joking right?

The best looking ride of any war is the Easy8!

why if I could reach my tail pipe I would never leave the house!

M4- an M4 is great looking :D

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Post #: 6
- 5/21/2002 8:21:37 PM   
AmmoSgt

 

Posts: 1002
Joined: 10/21/2000
From: Redstone Arsenal Al
Status: offline 		I never could decide if I liked the looks of the Staghound w/37mm or the Wolverine better, so I nominate either one. Take your pick.

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Re: Better to look good than be good... - 5/21/2002 10:59:53 PM   
Kanon Fodder

 

Posts: 196
Joined: 9/8/2001
From: Portland, Orrygun
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by willy
[B]On the ugly side I would nominate the British Challenger tank, or the Churchill (Brits had a talent for ugly AFV's) [/B][/QUOTE]

I'd have to agree with you on the earlier British machines, but I think they redeemed themselves with the Centurian (and Chieftain in later years)

As far as really ugly I'd agree with the KV-II posting, or nominate the Italian L6/40 - clunky without the "cuteness" of the Stuart.

Best looking would be a toss-up between the Panther and Konigstiger

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Post #: 8
- 5/21/2002 11:25:03 PM   
Easy8

 

Posts: 324
Joined: 6/10/2001
From: Austin, Tx
Status: offline 		I nominate the M-22 Locust for the "Cutest"


[URL=http://www.battletanks.com/m22_light_tank.htm]http://www.battletanks.com/m22_light_tank.htm[/URL]

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Post #: 9
- 5/22/2002 2:10:33 AM   
Svennemir

 

Posts: 542
Joined: 11/2/2001
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		I like the T-34/76. It looks just like a tank is supposed to look.

The KV-2... I wouldn't quite call it ugly.... I can't really describe how I feel about it, but when I want to make someone laugh I usually show them a picture of one.

On the other hand, a rather extreme chapter of the military history of aesthetics can be seen here :

http://www.jed.simonides.org/tanks/tango/tsar_series/tsar-series.html

I wonder who came up with *that* idea, and what he was smoking... and - of course - if I could have some of it.

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Post #: 10
- 5/22/2002 5:05:19 AM   
screamer

 

Posts: 299
Joined: 7/21/2001
From: The Netherlands,
Status: offline 		to be honest ive always had a weak spot for the pzkw III ,but the jagdpanther looks awsome

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Post #: 11
- 5/22/2002 5:55:28 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Just about any early war Brit tank was "ugly"

Especially the tankette looking ones, over rated reason for machine guns too.

I think the American M-26 Pershing or the German Panzer IV F2 was about the most ideal tank looking tank though.

Its not about sleek lines, its about classic tank looking lines.

Unfortunately, it's post war, but ultimately, the perfect tank shape goes to the Patton series in my opinion.

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Post #: 12
- 5/22/2002 6:29:12 AM   
NaKATPase

 

Posts: 202
Joined: 3/14/2002
From: Madison, WI
Status: offline 		no one has mentioned t-34/85 yet? shame...
I think it looks even better than /76c

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Post #: 13
- 5/22/2002 3:15:10 PM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		Well, my "cute award" would probably go to the Chaffee. :)

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Post #: 14
- 5/23/2002 4:48:00 AM   
Capt. Pixel

 

Posts: 1219
Joined: 10/15/2001
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Belisarius
[B]Well, my "cute award" would probably go to the Chaffee. :) [/B][/QUOTE]

Yep "Cute" - but with a really mean streak. :D

I vote the Panther for looks. In my eye, this is the classic tank profile.

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Post #: 15
- 5/23/2002 4:57:13 AM   
Kanon Fodder

 

Posts: 196
Joined: 9/8/2001
From: Portland, Orrygun
Status: offline 		And, after all, this wonderful game [COLOR=red]is[/COLOR] called "Steel[B] Panthers[/B] :World at War"

Somehow "Steel Shermans: World at War" just don't cut it ...
;)

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Post #: 16
- 5/23/2002 5:09:57 AM   
screamer

 

Posts: 299
Joined: 7/21/2001
From: The Netherlands,
Status: offline 		cute award?? the french R35

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Post #: 17
- 5/24/2002 10:54:38 AM   
WhiteRook

 

Posts: 276
Joined: 4/9/2002
From: Minneapolis, MN
Status: offline 		Now come on guys - give the poor sherman a break! I know I am an M4 fan and all but to me the Pershing looked far cooler than most M4's. Notice I said most! ;) Some of them are actualy pretty cool in their own right. Um - lets see, which one comes to mind first?? Got it, are you ready, yep its the Easy 8 all the way! :D :D

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Post #: 18
- 5/24/2002 11:17:10 AM   
stevemk1a


Posts: 855
Joined: 3/30/2002
From: Penticton B.C.
Status: offline 		As far as Shermans go, the later the better... the easy8 is the best of them (unless you include the Israeli "super shermans", not in WWII - but a cool ride). The sand-skirts on any Sherman look dorky (I guess they were usually removed in the field, though) the bigger turret and longer gun (how very Freudian!) of the later models make the earlier ones look a little sad in comparison...however I've always considered the Pershing better looking than the Sherman- not sleek and exotic like the later German AFV's but more workmanlike and brutal looking. The German Neubaufahrzeug prototype heavy tanks sent to Norway in 1940 prove that the Germans could also produce a hideous AFV. Any crewmember would be embarassed to be seen operating it " hey!, are those PzI turrets you got stuck all over you? - looks like you borrowed that suspension from the Tommys!" :D

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Post #: 19
Re: Better to look good than be good... - 5/25/2002 10:39:55 AM   
V-man

 

Posts: 151
Joined: 12/10/2001
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by willy
[B]Okay, I've got two weeks off... time to jab at the bee's nest before I head out of town. In another thread, the best looking AFV's of WWII were mentioned. What do you guys consider the best/worst lookin' AFV of the Second World War to be[/B][/QUOTE]

M3/M5 Stuart Light Tank was the best looking. All Cavalrymen have attitudes and this tank showed it. Sorta like a snazzy sports car that *was* that fast and manuverable.

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Post #: 20
- 5/25/2002 11:12:19 AM   
Huffy


Posts: 497
Joined: 7/6/2000
From: ,USA
Status: offline 		Well....I am in favore of the Pershing....I saw a tape on the Hist. ch. of a Pershing being the hunter in a city fight with a Panther.....the Pershing won.
Now,...on the other hand ...I was at ABD. museum last summer...and Sven told me of a Pershing that took on a JagdTiger,....the Pershing was the "underdog"....but he still won,...by...luck-or skill-...Pershing for me
Take care....
Huffy

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Post #: 21
- 5/25/2002 11:33:17 AM   
stevemk1a


Posts: 855
Joined: 3/30/2002
From: Penticton B.C.
Status: offline 		A Pershing that took on a Jagdtiger? What's the details on that?, both vehicles are cool rarities in WWII! Pershing almost too late to see action, and the Jagdtiger the ultimate nazi expression of "we can't outnumber 'em so we better outgun 'em". I'm sure the Pershing is a far more practical weapon, but I can't resist the the Jagdtiger (though it's crews hated it...). The only combat documentation I have found involving the Jagdtiger is the action of kampfgruppe Ernst just outside of Iserlohn. Anyone know of others? Did all of these beasts just breakdown, get abandoned, or fall prey to Jabos?

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Post #: 22
- 5/25/2002 12:04:41 PM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline 		Deaf 60 year olds with 3 hours of training caught up to them.

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Post #: 23
- 5/25/2002 1:02:49 PM   
stevemk1a


Posts: 855
Joined: 3/30/2002
From: Penticton B.C.
Status: offline 		The deaf 60 year olds with almost no training are probably the crew of the Jagdtiger blowing up their own ride... ("there's not enough foliage in the Fatherland to disguise this thing!!" :D )

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Post #: 24
- 5/25/2002 10:38:37 PM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		That was the problem with Jagdtigers, Königtigers, Panthers, Jagdpanthers etc. All new tanks were issued to new (=Volksgrenadier) troops w/out training, while the "old" Pz.Abts were left to bleed to death. Another brilliant strategy from the OKH :rolleyes:

This situation was similar to the one in Russia back in '41. Inexperienced crews that drove the tanks too hard and used BAD tactics caused an enourmous breakdown ratio, compared to what the veteran crews had.

Note, though, that the s.Pz.Abts operating Königtigers had a higher combat ready ratio than most Panther regiments had! (approx 60% to the Panthers' 48-50%) I've also seen reports on the Tiger II's combat target hit ratio. Up to 500 meters, 100% of the shots hit! Not training - in combat! :eek:

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Post #: 25
- 5/25/2002 11:26:44 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		German late war armour proved rather nicely, bigger is just bigger, not automatically better.

That and they had a major problem with Allied air superiority.

When a column of shermans encounters a Tiger or any other biggun, they just called in air strikes and blew the monster to pieces.

Kinda explains why so many pictures of knocked out German mega tanks are upside down or on their side. 500 lb bombs will tend to do that to a tank.

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Post #: 26
- 5/26/2002 2:04:32 PM   
stevemk1a


Posts: 855
Joined: 3/30/2002
From: Penticton B.C.
Status: offline 		O.K., from what I can find, the Jagdtiger was issued to Schwere Panzerjager Abt. 512 (2 Company commanded by tank ace Otto Carius - the unit previously operated the Elefant TD), Schwere Panzerjager Abt. 653, and a few to SS Panzer Abt 501. About 85 were made, 4 of them with the 88mm Pak 43 gun subbed for the 128mm gun due to shortages. One company from Abt 512 was intended for the Ardennes offensive, but ended up dribbled in to the Nordwind offensive further south. Some were used in Hungary in the "Fruhlingerwachen" operation (what a mouthful :) ). They also saw combat around Iserlohn as I mentioned in a previous post. None seemed to accomplish anything (In fact KG Ernst surrendered it's vehicles a few days after their action). I realize they were a waste of resources, and too ponderous to be effective, but I still think they're pretty interesting... does anyone out there know of any other specific actions, or descriptions of actions involving the biggest of the big cats?

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By request - the PzKfw Nbfz VIs - 5/26/2002 6:40:29 PM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by willy
[B] The German Neubaufahrzeug prototype heavy tanks sent to Norway in 1940 prove that the Germans could also produce a hideous AFV. Any crewmember would be embarassed to be seen operating it " hey!, are those PzI turrets you got stuck all over you? - looks like you borrowed that suspension from the Tommys!" :D [/B][/QUOTE]

On parade in Oslo, 1940.

"no those are not turrets - it's an allergic reaction to cold and wet climate!" :D :D

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 28
- 5/27/2002 11:14:03 AM   
stevemk1a


Posts: 855
Joined: 3/30/2002
From: Penticton B.C.
Status: offline 		O.K. "seek and ye shall find"... at [url]www.panzerworld.net/Jagdtiger[/url] I found a great rundown on the operations of Jagdtiger units- some neat facts:
-first one lost to enemy action was by bazooka
-they were used as indirect artillery in the Hagenau forest
-at the town of Schwetzingen one was offed by a Sherman at 200m! (You M4 guys should like that!)

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