PC and SC ASW

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

PC and SC ASW

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> PC and SC ASW

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

PC and SC ASW - 5/22/2002 4:12:35 AM

PBYPilot

Posts: 183
Joined: 3/13/2002
From: Marina del Rey, CA
Status: offline

As a addendum to the current "ASW" thread, which seems to be concentrating on the effectiveness of aircraft against subs, I'd like to mention my experience of using smaller patrol craft against subs.

It sucks :D

Sent 4 SC's out against a known contact off the south coast of Noumea. Three were sunk by the sub they were hunting. No attacks were delivered by the SC's, no searches were conducted!

Now admittedly, SC's and PC's were not the most effective ASW ships on the sea, in terms of sinking subs. But to lose 3 against a known contact with no searching or counterattacks seems....counterintuitive.

What I think should have happened, in a braod sense, is that the presence of the SC's should have reduced the effectiveness of the sub in that area (hex). They would have forced the sub to stay submerged during the day, and increased the chance of spotting (and thus forceing the sub to dive) at night. "Keeping them down" was the ploy used by both sides.

Another result that seemed "non-prototypical" was tyhat SC's were all sunk with 8 torp spreads. Now what would you do to a sub commander who fired an 8 torp spread against a SC or patrol craft? Additionally, PC's and SC's were nimble, shallow draft vessels that were notoriously hard to sink via torepedos.

So some suggested changes for the patch (I hope) might include:

1) reduced effectiveness of torpedo attacks against small ASW craft;

2) reduced submarine search and attack effectiveness once spotted or in hexes with ASW assets;

and, 3) a specific "ASW" order for surface TF's

Comments or other experiences?

PBYPilot

Post #: 1

- 5/22/2002 4:18:07 AM

madflava13

Posts: 1530
Joined: 2/7/2001
From: Alexandria, VA
Status: offline

There was a discussion a day ago about the need to send PCs and SCs on "shakedown" cruises. They start with abyssmal exp. levels, but by sending them on jaunts around the area, they get better.

I had an almost identical experience with them before I heard this.

As for the spreads of torps - I agree it should be more realistic. My guess is this was way down on the list of things to add. 8 torps on a PC is poor use of your weapons, but I can live with it for now.

_____________________________

"The Paraguayan Air Force's request for spraying subsidies was not as Paraguayan as it were..."

(in reply to PBYPilot)

Post #: 2

- 5/22/2002 4:24:42 AM

ccoul

Posts: 15
Joined: 4/8/2002
From: Linthicum MD
Status: offline

My SC met with the same fate. Known contact NE of Noumea. dispatch 4 SC...2 came home. Zero damage or attack on the Sub.

I tried the exp trick of shakedown cruises. It made some differnce. I acutally caught the sub on the surface the first day. The the next day both SC rammed home Depth Charge attack. With three DC (shell hits) recorded. The Sub disappeared very quickly after that.

Although I agree a full spread seems a waste on the SC's.

Hope that helps...

Chris

(in reply to PBYPilot)

Post #: 3

- 5/22/2002 4:52:26 AM

siRkid

Posts: 6650
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: Orland FL
Status: offline

I am playing an e-mail game and we are over 200 days into it. So far my SCs and PC have not scored one hit on a sub. I agree something should be done. And I have been sending them out to get exp.

_____________________________

Former War in the Pacific Test Team Manager and Beta Tester for War in the East.

(in reply to PBYPilot)

Post #: 4

limbo - 5/22/2002 5:17:18 AM

Bosun

Posts: 136
Joined: 4/22/2002
From: High Mountains
Status: offline

I thank you all whom are sending your tips and experiances. This is making a huge difference for those of us who felt that UPS could deliver on time. I preordered on 5/2, shipped on the 14th and I'm still waiting...:eek: :mad: :( :rolleyes:

_____________________________

A WILLING FOE AND SEA ROOM...

ANONYMOUS

(in reply to PBYPilot)

Post #: 5

My sympathies... - 5/22/2002 10:49:12 PM

brisd

Posts: 614
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: San Diego, CA
Status: offline

Go out to you Bosun. I preordered on 5/2 and got the game on 5/20 via priority Mail (USPS). The wait is definitely worth it! I am going to post my initial impressions on a separate thread.

(in reply to PBYPilot)

Post #: 6

- 5/22/2002 11:00:04 PM

dgaad

Posts: 864
Joined: 7/25/2001
From: Hockeytown
Status: offline

SCs have terrible "night" experience levels. There is another thread about this issue. The fact is, they absolutely suck at "chasing" subs. Also, having a sub chaser group on "Retirement Allowed" means they will almost never even attempt to engage subs.

Solution : form SC groups and send them out to empty hexes on "shakedown" cruises. You will see their night experience slowly increase. Also, have large groups of SCs set on Patrol / React and when your aircraft spot a sub, have them go out to that location. If the enemy sub attempts to engage, your SCs night experience will go up dramatically. You will lose SCs at first, but eventually their experience will go up, they will start engaging, and then the Japs subs will start sinking. But, I'm more of a poster than a reader, so what do I know?

_____________________________

Last time I checked, the forums were messed up. ;)

(in reply to PBYPilot)

Post #: 7

Agreed... - 5/22/2002 11:08:18 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

Once the SCs gain experience (and they generally do this the hard way) they start becoming useful. Have a look at Rob's latest posts in his AAR and you'll see that two of his SCs just got some subs.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to PBYPilot)

Post #: 8

- 5/23/2002 6:55:44 AM

Didz

Posts: 728
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: UK
Status: offline

Yeh!! it worked I finally managed to sink a Jap sub [I-27] with two of my SC's.

The trick as you says is to turn 'Retirement allowed' off and make them sit on the sub until it suffocates and has to come up for air.

So far the score is Subs 2 SC's 1 but the sub was worth 11 points the SC's only 1 point each so I'm 9 points up on the exchange.

Its also made my SC crews take their training far more seriously, I hope.

(in reply to PBYPilot)

Post #: 9