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Mission 376 - 4/24/2009 8:09:13 PM   
Hard Sarge


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From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		interesting info in this book, one area that I really thought was good, was the details on the fighter and bombers assigned

raid was towards Lipzig

the 56th FG was sent out on a Sweep ahead of the raids, trying to catch the LW in the form up areas before they could hit the raids
(P-47s)

Force one, targets Ruhland and Dessau, 78th FG (P-47) Penetration support, 355th, 352nd, 363rd, 4th FGs, Target support (P-51), withdrawl support, 367th, 358th, 50th FGs (P-38 and P-47)

Force two, targets Magdeburg, Konigsborn, 356th FG (P-47 PS, 357th, 359th, 354th FGs (P-51) TS, 474th, 362nd, 36th FGs WS (P-38 and P-47)

Force three, targets Mersburg and Zeitz, 353rd FG (P-47) PS, 361st, 20th FGs (P-51 and P-38)TS, 370th, 373rd FGs WS (P-38 and P-47)

Force four, target Lutzkendorf, 479th PS (P-38), 339th, 55th FGs, TS, (P-51, P-38) 19,65,129,306,315 Squadrons WS (Mustang III)

Force five, target Cologne, 364th FG, PS, (P-38) 406th FG TS and WS (P-47)

General withdraw support 356th and 364th FGs (P-47 and P-38, 2nd mission of the day)

soooo, you can kind of see, how much went into these missions, and if you didn't notice, a number of those FGs are from the 9th

in game terms, this would of been a star burst raid, with the IXth FGs being sent out on sweeps along the raid path

Allied Fighters claimed 55 kills, the Allies lost 32 bombers, and 14 fighters




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RE: Mission 376 - 4/25/2009 1:03:10 AM   
joey


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Joined: 5/8/2004
From: Johnstown, PA
Status: offline 		I wonder in the end who did the most planning to support their airforces: the Germans or the Allies. Both had their own issues but the operations section of each group must have spend some serious hours planning for each day's activities. I don't think these groups ever got the credit they deserved.

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RE: Mission 376 - 4/25/2009 9:24:22 PM   
toast_1

 

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Joined: 2/17/2008
Status: offline 		Yea...Those big raids like must have taken a lot of planning, coordination, and a lot of hard work on the part of the ground crews. And of course the weather would have to cooperate too.  I got the impression form reading that many things frequently didn’t come off quite as well as they were planned. Some due to weather nav screw etc.

HS. Do you happen to know the date on the raid you describe? What's the book you reading? I'm not familiar with the meaning of "star burst" raid, could you describe that a little?
thanks

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RE: Mission 376 - 4/25/2009 9:41:40 PM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
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Status: offline 		in game turns a star burst raid is when you put several raids on the same way into the enemy airspace and split them up close to several enemy targets.....looks like a star burst.

If done correctly, the escorts of any mission will attack the Axis interceptors......this is a way to maximize your escort protection for the bombers on the inbound fly path.

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RE: Mission 376 - 4/25/2009 9:58:57 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		well, the name of the book is, Mission 376

the writer's father was a kid and seen one of the B-17s crash almost on top of there farm house, so all of his life he was been interested in it and done reseach on it since he was a kid, over 20 years of work, and I think it shows, very detailed book

May 28th, 1944

and yes as Swift says, the Star burst is a game term, but from the maps, it looks like it was the same idea


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RE: Mission 376 - 4/25/2009 10:04:24 PM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		German losses were 18KIA and 13 WIA pilots, most of them flying Bf109G-6.

And the next day was even worse.....44 KIA and 19 WIA German pilots,
but also high American losses (8th AF 34 and the 15th AF 18 heavy bombers)



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RE: Mission 376 - 4/25/2009 11:27:46 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		I get, 18 FWs and 32 109s, 18 KIA, 15 WIA, and 16 Safe, not counting some of the other odd planes knocked down




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RE: Mission 376 - 4/26/2009 12:20:50 AM   
toast_1

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 2/17/2008
Status: offline 		Thanks fo the info on starburst..I 'm familiar with the old game enough to be able to visualise it. Tiiming would be tricky tho… timing is critical in BTR

Re: May 28th…Looks like the Germans found those formations a very hard nut to crack with all that escort up there with them. I looked the May 28th day up…. Decent weather … A single steam over 1300 bombers headed due east on the bomber autobahn then spit up to their targets. Awesome…Apparently the FGs were mostly on time too. My source( Cadwell& Muller luftw over German/ Def of Reich) says I.Jagkorps(II not involved) lost 18 KIA, 13 WIA and 52 fighters. Thanks

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RE: Mission 376 - 4/26/2009 12:28:16 AM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		there were some screw ups, some of the B-24s groups flew though some of the B-17 Groups on form up, and got the formations messed up, then one of the B-17 groups got between two others, so got the cover screwed up, and then just as the LW started to come in, they had to make there turn into the target, and the fighters stuck with who they were flying with, some of the first passes were totally nasty

I think the differences in losses are based on, aircraft lost attacking the raids, and aircraft that got hit in other areas


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