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RE: Ship graphics - 2/19/2009 4:58:53 PM   
Ron Saueracker


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Hey, thought I'd bring up an old topic of contention. Did USS Utah make it in the OOB seeing as it played a significant enough role in the attack on PH?

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Post #: 121
RE: Ship graphics - 2/19/2009 5:12:29 PM   
Monter_Trismegistos

 

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Are they available any earlier conversions for Jap DDs and TBs giving them DCs? In WitP you had to wait to march 42 to turn those ships into real warships.

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Post #: 122
RE: Ship graphics - 2/19/2009 7:28:14 PM   
JWE

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker
Hey, thought I'd bring up an old topic of contention. Did USS Utah make it in the OOB seeing as it played a significant enough role in the attack on PH?

Ah … Utah, greatest snow on earth. Should probably have some cruiser conversions to a Park City class, or, my fave Alta. Still have a photo somewhere of virgin tracks down Greeley back in ’98.

Ok, know you mean the ship. But the game is operational across years. Utah wasn’t. I know people want to see PH as exactly historical, but that just can’t be. I know Utah soaked up some Jap Air, but so did Schofield Barracks and 2177 Magnolia Street, and they are not in the game. It’s the 99:1 rule.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos
Are they available any earlier conversions for Jap DDs and TBs giving them DCs? In WitP you had to wait to march 42 to turn those ships into real warships.

Monter, the game makes upgrades/conversions happen when they did. There’s no “what if the Japanese were smarter” options available in the release version. The release version assumes that the different sides did what they did when they did them, with some reasonable flexibility. Sorry – no ‘what if’ in the release scenarios.


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Post #: 123
RE: Ship graphics - 2/19/2009 7:31:43 PM   
Don Bowen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker
Hey, thought I'd bring up an old topic of contention. Did USS Utah make it in the OOB seeing as it played a significant enough role in the attack on PH?


Ok, know you mean the ship. But the game is operational across years. Utah wasn’t. I know people want to see PH as exactly historical, but that just can’t be. I know Utah soaked up some Jap Air, but so did Schofield Barracks and 2177 Magnolia Street, and they are not in the game. It’s the 99:1 rule.



Besides, if Utah gets put in, there a couple of hundred Don's Babies that will start crying for inclusion...



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Post #: 124
RE: Ship graphics - 2/19/2009 7:54:50 PM   
JWE

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
Besides, if Utah gets put in, there a couple of hundred Don's Babies that will start crying for inclusion...

"INCOMING!!". See John's sphincter slam shut. See John run. See John cower behing the biggest pile of sandbags he can find.

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Post #: 125
RE: Ship graphics - 2/19/2009 7:56:16 PM   
Terminus


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See John forget to put his helmet on. See John decapitated by flying shrapnel from air burst.

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Post #: 126
RE: Ship graphics - 2/19/2009 7:59:57 PM   
JWE

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus
See John forget to put his helmet on. See John decapitated by flying shrapnel from air burst.

See John spew his beer on the monitor. LoL Termie.

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Post #: 127
RE: Ship graphics - 2/20/2009 4:31:39 AM   
Ron Saueracker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker
Hey, thought I'd bring up an old topic of contention. Did USS Utah make it in the OOB seeing as it played a significant enough role in the attack on PH?


Ok, know you mean the ship. But the game is operational across years. Utah wasn’t. I know people want to see PH as exactly historical, but that just can’t be. I know Utah soaked up some Jap Air, but so did Schofield Barracks and 2177 Magnolia Street, and they are not in the game. It’s the 99:1 rule.



Besides, if Utah gets put in, there a couple of hundred Don's Babies that will start crying for inclusion...





I thought most of your babes made it in. What's missing dudes?


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Post #: 128
RE: Ship graphics - 2/20/2009 5:20:26 AM   
jwilkerson


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Oh just tens of thousands of "Yard Boat this" and "Yard boat that" all the lighters and row boats and fishing boats and cabin cruisers. As I've often said, there are still more vessels NOT included in AE than ARE included!

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Post #: 129
RE: Ship graphics - 2/20/2009 6:08:13 AM   
Don Bowen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Oh just tens of thousands of "Yard Boat this" and "Yard boat that" all the lighters and row boats and fishing boats and cabin cruisers. As I've often said, there are still more vessels NOT included in AE than ARE included!


And two USCG cutters in Alaska and five more with the British Eastern Fleet in 1945 and all the Straits Steamship Lines craft that were taken over as support craft or auxiliary warships at Singapore and all the planned build up for the British Pacific Fleet that would have arrived late 45-46 and all the ex-German merchant ships taken over, given "Empire" names and about to be sent to the Pacific and the carrier, 2 cruisers, and full flotilla of destroyers slated to be transfered to the RCN for Pacific duty and the 40 RCN frigattes for the Pacific Fleet and all the US Army small cargo ships (FS Boats) and oilers (Y boats) and all the USAT ships in the Philippines and much of the SWPac Permanent Fleet (like 20+ lake type freighters and 30+ N3 Baltics) and at least 100 LST/LCI/LSM attached to the Eastern Fleet and all the US Navy district oilers and several dozen useful craft with AG and even YAG numbers and a lot more that doesn't spring to mind right now.

All either small or late war, but a lot of modder fodder.

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Post #: 130
RE: Ship graphics - 2/20/2009 2:47:53 PM   
witpqs


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Did the SS Minnow make it in?

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Post #: 131
RE: Ship graphics - 2/20/2009 4:22:33 PM   
Don Bowen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Did the SS Minnow make it in?


Sure, as a YP out of LA. Crew experience is lamentable.


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Post #: 132
RE: Ship graphics - 2/20/2009 4:32:42 PM   
steveh11Matrix


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Ya know, one of these days I'll have to actually watch Gilligan's Island.

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Post #: 133
RE: Ship graphics - 2/20/2009 4:53:06 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

Crew experience is lamentable.


But fearless!

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Post #: 134
RE: Ship graphics - 2/20/2009 5:17:56 PM   
bradfordkay

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

Crew experience is lamentable.


But fearless!


At sea... on land Gilligan was anything but fearless! Luckily that deserted island had a good network of footpaths for him to use when running away from danger...

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fair winds,
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Post #: 135
RE: Ship graphics - 2/20/2009 5:25:45 PM   
JWE

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay
At sea... on land Gilligan was anything but fearless! Luckily that deserted island had a good network of footpaths for him to use when running away from danger...

Ginger, or MaryAnn ?

[edit] Oh gosh ... I should NOT have done that ! If you guys have any mercy whatsoever, please don't go there !

< Message edited by JWE -- 2/20/2009 5:27:15 PM >


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Post #: 136
RE: Ship graphics - 2/20/2009 5:30:27 PM   
NormS3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Oh just tens of thousands of "Yard Boat this" and "Yard boat that" all the lighters and row boats and fishing boats and cabin cruisers. As I've often said, there are still more vessels NOT included in AE than ARE included!


And two USCG cutters in Alaska and five more with the British Eastern Fleet in 1945 and all the Straits Steamship Lines craft that were taken over as support craft or auxiliary warships at Singapore and all the planned build up for the British Pacific Fleet that would have arrived late 45-46 and all the ex-German merchant ships taken over, given "Empire" names and about to be sent to the Pacific and the carrier, 2 cruisers, and full flotilla of destroyers slated to be transfered to the RCN for Pacific duty and the 40 RCN frigattes for the Pacific Fleet and all the US Army small cargo ships (FS Boats) and oilers (Y boats) and all the USAT ships in the Philippines and much of the SWPac Permanent Fleet (like 20+ lake type freighters and 30+ N3 Baltics) and at least 100 LST/LCI/LSM attached to the Eastern Fleet and all the US Navy district oilers and several dozen useful craft with AG and even YAG numbers and a lot more that doesn't spring to mind right now.

All either small or late war, but a lot of modder fodder.



If you don't mind, what are the names of the cutters? I am always impressed with all the knowledge accumulated here.

thanks

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Post #: 137
RE: Ship graphics - 2/20/2009 6:28:45 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay
At sea... on land Gilligan was anything but fearless! Luckily that deserted island had a good network of footpaths for him to use when running away from danger...

Ginger, or MaryAnn ?

[edit] Oh gosh ... I should NOT have done that ! If you guys have any mercy whatsoever, please don't go there !


Why choose?

(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 138
RE: Ship graphics - 2/20/2009 7:48:29 PM   
Don Bowen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Norm3

If you don't mind, what are the names of the cutters? I am always impressed with all the knowledge accumulated here.

thanks




240 foot Tampa Class Coast Guard Cutter Huron, attached to Alaska Sector pre-war and remained there for the entire war. Performed general patrol and escort duties but never came into action. A single ship minor class and did not make the cut.

165 foot Algonquin Class Coast Guard Cutter Onondaga, based out of Astoria, Oregon and used in the Bearing Sea Patrol. Known as the 165(A) type, they were designed for service in icey waters. Compared to the 165(B) class, which were designed for general patrol, Onondaga and her sisters had 10 foot more beam and a strengthened hull and could be used for icebreaking. Was at Dutch Harbor during the attack but otherwise was primarily used for escort. Another one-up that did not make the cut.

Five of the ten ships of the 250-foot Lake Class: HMS Banff (ex USCG Saranac), HMS Fishguard (ex USCG Tahoe), HMS Gorlbston (ex USCG Itasca), HMS Lulworth (ex USCG Chelan) and HMS Sennen (ex USCG Champlain). All ten of this class were lend-leased to Britain before Pearl Harbor and gave good service as Atlantic Escorts. Three were lost (2 in the North African Invasion). The five listed were sent to the Indian Ocean as escorts in 1945. I'd have to dig deep to find the exact dates.

I'm the Don's Babies guy so I'd love to see every one of these guys in there. But even I admit that sticking in every minor ship can be a bit much. It can affect playability too, as players have to deal with them (even if only setting up routine patrols). AE doubles the number of available ships and already has more ships defined then were available in stock. That leaves thousands for modders (like me!). Once AE is released I'm going to spend a few glorious months researching and putting in all these ships (and bugging my artist friends for artwork).



< Message edited by Don Bowen -- 2/20/2009 8:33:08 PM >

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Post #: 139
RE: Ship graphics - 4/30/2009 10:41:15 PM   
Chad Harrison


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

. . . snip . . .

All either small or late war, but a lot of modder fodder.



Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I am passing time with nothing to do at work and came across Don's comment above.

How much of Eastern fleet(s) shipping is going to be in stock AE's OOB? Or in other words, how many ships are going to show up in stock AE from Europe after Germany's surrender?

I know that the Europe land units made the cut for stock AE, but this is the first I have heard any mention of what will/will not be in as far as post German surrender, ETO ships. Honestly I have no idea what was planned in reality, but I would imagine that a large number of ships would be coming to the Pacific for the upcoming Downfall Operation.

Don's comments above make it sound like they are going to be missing from stock AE. If so, was this to save on database space, or the time to get them in?

Or the fact that like 2 PBEM's have made it into 1945

Thanks in advance and keep up the great work!

Chad

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Post #: 140
RE: Ship graphics - 5/1/2009 2:53:56 AM   
JWE

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison
quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
. . . snip . . .
All either small or late war, but a lot of modder fodder.

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I am passing time with nothing to do at work and came across Don's comment above.

How much of Eastern fleet(s) shipping is going to be in stock AE's OOB? Or in other words, how many ships are going to show up in stock AE from Europe after Germany's surrender?

I know that the Europe land units made the cut for stock AE, but this is the first I have heard any mention of what will/will not be in as far as post German surrender, ETO ships. Honestly I have no idea what was planned in reality, but I would imagine that a large number of ships would be coming to the Pacific for the upcoming Downfall Operation.

Don's comments above make it sound like they are going to be missing from stock AE. If so, was this to save on database space, or the time to get them in?

Or the fact that like 2 PBEM's have made it into 1945

Thanks in advance and keep up the great work!

Chad

Lots will be there. I think most of the majors that got assigned to Downfall will show up; Nelson, Anson, the CVs, tons of DDs and CAs, stuff like that.

Lots won't be there also. Reason is we already have 10,000 ships, and adding another 4,000 for the last six months of game time seemed a trifle much. Especially as there wouldn't be anything left afloat for them to fight. But, you will get all the sexy ones.

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Post #: 141
RE: Ship graphics - 5/1/2009 3:08:10 AM   
kfmiller41


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You know the amount of stuff you guys KNOW about this just boggles the mind of lesser beings like me

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Post #: 142
RE: Ship graphics - 5/1/2009 5:13:43 AM   
Terminus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison
quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
. . . snip . . .
All either small or late war, but a lot of modder fodder.

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I am passing time with nothing to do at work and came across Don's comment above.

How much of Eastern fleet(s) shipping is going to be in stock AE's OOB? Or in other words, how many ships are going to show up in stock AE from Europe after Germany's surrender?

I know that the Europe land units made the cut for stock AE, but this is the first I have heard any mention of what will/will not be in as far as post German surrender, ETO ships. Honestly I have no idea what was planned in reality, but I would imagine that a large number of ships would be coming to the Pacific for the upcoming Downfall Operation.

Don's comments above make it sound like they are going to be missing from stock AE. If so, was this to save on database space, or the time to get them in?

Or the fact that like 2 PBEM's have made it into 1945

Thanks in advance and keep up the great work!

Chad

Lots will be there. I think most of the majors that got assigned to Downfall will show up; Nelson, Anson, the CVs, tons of DDs and CAs, stuff like that.

Lots won't be there also. Reason is we already have 10,000 ships, and adding another 4,000 for the last six months of game time seemed a trifle much. Especially as there wouldn't be anything left afloat for them to fight. But, you will get all the sexy ones.


Of course, this is the grand campaign (scenario 1) that John's talking about. For the Downfall scenario, all sorts of stuff can be thrown in... Once I get around to start making it...

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Post #: 143
RE: Ship graphics - 5/1/2009 8:33:46 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay
At sea... on land Gilligan was anything but fearless! Luckily that deserted island had a good network of footpaths for him to use when running away from danger...

Ginger, or MaryAnn ?

[edit] Oh gosh ... I should NOT have done that ! If you guys have any mercy whatsoever, please don't go there !


Why choose?


Hell, Maryann STILL looks good. (even that mug shot)

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Post #: 144
RE: Ship graphics - 5/1/2009 4:10:30 PM   
Chad Harrison


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From: Boise, ID - USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

Lots will be there. I think most of the majors that got assigned to Downfall will show up; Nelson, Anson, the CVs, tons of DDs and CAs, stuff like that.

Lots won't be there also. Reason is we already have 10,000 ships, and adding another 4,000 for the last six months of game time seemed a trifle much. Especially as there wouldn't be anything left afloat for them to fight. But, you will get all the sexy ones.



Thanks for the reply John. Sounds like a perfect balance to me.

Keep up the great work and in case the 50 other comments in this thread didn't get the point across, the new ship art is simply amazing!

Thanks again

Chad

(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 145
RE: Ship graphics - 5/1/2009 4:12:26 PM   
Chad Harrison


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

For the Downfall scenario, all sorts of stuff can be thrown in... Once I get around to start making it...



If I remember correctly, this scenario is going to be included in an official patch after release right?

Just curious, but what will the dates of the scenario be?

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 146
RE: Ship graphics - 5/1/2009 5:05:26 PM   
JWE

 

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Yummm .. MaryAnn. Concur YH!

Didn’t mean to sound cavalier about Downfall, hope Termie forgives me. Most of the 4000 ships would be Libertys, Victorys, Park/Forts, Sams, sweepers, sloops, corvettes, those sorts of things.

We do have lots in the box that relates to Downfall. All sorts of Brit warships, down to and including Loch and Bay type frigates, and a bunch of CLs that went back to Blighty for CLAA conversion, that likely would have shown up. Heck, we have Midways, Alaskas, Gearing Mod-1s, etc … You get monster floating docks, and a fleet train that you can organize into a traveling Port-8 + Shipyard, or two to three traveling Port-5 + Shipyards. They are all in the box (data and art). Many show up in the base scenario, but they are all available for use in the Downfall mod.

As to shipping, per se, in the regular scenario, you’ll get darn near all the “amphibious assault” assets the Brits had – Glens, Stars, Empires, Brigades, as well as the late war US assets, P2 and C4 Admiral and General classes of transports. When 12th Army Group shows up in SFO, you will be able to schlep at least an Army at a time.

Don is working on developing the sweepers, sloops, corvettes, frigates, cutters, etc .. to make things more balanced and robust. Needless to say, data and art development follow the scenario designer. Anything that Termie needs for Downfall, he gets.


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Post #: 147
RE: Ship graphics - 5/1/2009 5:06:48 PM   
Terminus


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This is correct. It starts a bit before X-Day for Operation Olympic (11/1/45). I haven't decided how far it'll run yet.

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Post #: 148
RE: Ship graphics - 5/1/2009 5:48:37 PM   
Don Bowen


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From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

Yummm .. MaryAnn. Concur YH!

Didn’t mean to sound cavalier about Downfall, hope Termie forgives me. Most of the 4000 ships would be Libertys, Victorys, Park/Forts, Sams, sweepers, sloops, corvettes, those sorts of things.

We do have lots in the box that relates to Downfall. All sorts of Brit warships, down to and including Loch and Bay type frigates, and a bunch of CLs that went back to Blighty for CLAA conversion, that likely would have shown up. Heck, we have Midways, Alaskas, Gearing Mod-1s, etc … You get monster floating docks, and a fleet train that you can organize into a traveling Port-8 + Shipyard, or two to three traveling Port-5 + Shipyards. They are all in the box (data and art). Many show up in the base scenario, but they are all available for use in the Downfall mod.

As to shipping, per se, in the regular scenario, you’ll get darn near all the “amphibious assault” assets the Brits had – Glens, Stars, Empires, Brigades, as well as the late war US assets, P2 and C4 Admiral and General classes of transports. When 12th Army Group shows up in SFO, you will be able to schlep at least an Army at a time.

Don is working on developing the sweepers, sloops, corvettes, frigates, cutters, etc .. to make things more balanced and robust. Needless to say, data and art development follow the scenario designer. Anything that Termie needs for Downfall, he gets.



Canada was to receive a CVL, 2 CL, and a full flotilla of modern "C" class destroyers from the Royal Navy, all for Pacific deployment. They were to be crewed by laying up the convoy escorts that had fought the battle of the Atlantic. The RCN was also to provide 40+ River class frigates for general escort to the British Pacific Fleet and East Indies Fleet. Somewhat more than 40 were in the process of tropicalization when the war ended and a few were already on the west coast.

The British were also transferring very large numbers of modern landing ships and craft, including the British build LST(3) - somewhat faster than LST(2). These were built by the British using different engines when US allocations of LST(2) fell short. Also the big Fairmile Dog boats - MTB/MGB put mostly in MGB configuration. Interesting, but hard to emulate in AE, were the LCG(L). These were modified LCT with two army type 4.7'' guns (and a few light AA). They were not capable of offshore bombardment, but were to be run onto the beach and used as a stationary, instantly available, battery.

The French were also sending along a few more ships. Not too much data on them (help, anyone) but they included at least one more big destroyer, a few colonial sloops, and some escorts/minecraft.

There's also the very interesting German Standard Type "Hansa" ships. Large numbers of these were taken over by the British after Germany surrendered, given Empire names, and sent to the Far East.

And so much more....



(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 149
RE: Ship graphics - 5/1/2009 6:24:20 PM   
Chad Harrison


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From: Boise, ID - USA
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John, Don and Terminus

Thanks again for all the replies. Personally, I love all the late war stuff, so I am really excited to see all these last minute toys show up in late 1945. Will be really fun to play with them that late in the game! Thanks again for the details.

If the Operation Downfall scenario starts November 1st, and would include the planned invasion of Kyushu, and then Tokyo, I would think that around five or six months would be needed to have it really play out nicely. Enough time for the troops to get ashore, and the Japanease played to have ample time to make an attempt to get them out, at each beachhead.

Along those same lines, are there any other official scenarios already planned for post release? Downfall is the only one I have heard of.

Would love to see ones for the American invasion of the Phillipines.

Regardless, keep up the great work and thanks again for the replies!

Chad


(in reply to Don Bowen)
Post #: 150
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