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Radar Spotting - 5/9/2009 5:35:04 PM

herwin

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DK Brown notes that as late as the end of 1942--if not later--radar was unable to detect shell splashes for gun calibers less than 8 inches. How does this affect the way the game engine handles radar?

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RE: Radar Spotting - 5/9/2009 6:11:03 PM

Dili

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Are you really expecting that detail in this game? Radar as far as i know doesn't have horizon limit or target size Vs range.

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RE: Radar Spotting - 5/9/2009 6:38:50 PM

pad152

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I doubt it has any effect on a game of this scale, besides the Japanese could detect ship radar emissions long before radar could even detect/locate the Japanese ships. The Japanese couldn't tell what was out there, only something from a general direction was headed their way. Gun controlled radar made a big difference once the shooting started but, ship surface radar wasn't always that great finding the enemy. Airbone radar gave the allies about a 15 min advance warning of air borne raids when everything worked right.

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RE: Radar Spotting - 5/9/2009 7:06:46 PM

JWE

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There never were any fire control devices in stock WiTP and there are no fire control devices in AE.

Please respect the purpose of these threads and move techno-IRL discussione to some other appropriate forum.

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RE: Radar Spotting - 5/10/2009 8:05:56 AM

herwin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

There never were any fire control devices in stock WiTP and there are no fire control devices in AE.

Please respect the purpose of these threads and move techno-IRL discussione to some other appropriate forum.

I thought there were. Thanks!

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Post #: 5

RE: Radar Spotting - 5/10/2009 3:40:31 PM

jwilkerson

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Nope no fire control devices in WITP or AE. This is another aspect that is modeled "more abstractly" rather than "less abstractly".

And there are no sonar devices.

And there are not even any bathothermometer devices!!!

If we ever do a "from scratch" rewrite - some of things things will definitly be on the list (especially sonar) - but for now - for WITP and AE - they are still absent.

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RE: Radar Spotting - 5/10/2009 5:14:09 PM

RevRick

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Nope no fire control devices in WITP or AE. This is another aspect that is modeled "more abstractly" rather than "less abstractly".

And there are no sonar devices.

And there are not even any bathothermometer devices!!!

If we ever do a "from scratch" rewrite - some of things things will definitly be on the list (especially sonar) - but for now - for WITP and AE - they are still absent.

Be careful. If you start down that road, you will also have to allow for R&D to develop the tail so you can use sonar below the thermal layers and then a nixie to handle the acoustic torpedos and both a height finding and air search radar and jet engines and all kinds of stuff. By the way, do we get helicopters????

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RE: Radar Spotting - 5/10/2009 9:53:54 PM

LeeChard

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Sometimes seagulls would give false readings on radar. Have you modeled this?

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RE: Radar Spotting - 5/10/2009 9:58:09 PM

Don Bowen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ranger5355

�Sometimes seagulls would give false readings on radar. Have you modeled this?

After some debate, we decided to exclude the C-GU11 and other mods of B1-RD from the OOB.

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RE: Radar Spotting - 5/10/2009 10:06:48 PM

LeeChard

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That's O.K. I plan on buying the game when it's released. Then I'll patiently await the patch that will rectify this glaring deficiency

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Post #: 10

RE: Radar Spotting - 5/10/2009 10:54:54 PM

Nikademus

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but we have blimps.

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RE: Radar Spotting - 5/11/2009 12:56:10 AM

Jorm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

but we have blimps.

Blimps ? wow, they were in the pacific ?, did they do any thing useful ?
Didnt one sink a uboat once when it surfaced directly below it ,else they were too slow to be of much use ?.
Interesting

cheers

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RE: Radar Spotting - 5/11/2009 12:58:23 AM

Jorm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

DK Brown notes that as late as the end of 1942--if not later--radar was unable to detect shell splashes for gun calibers less than 8 inches. How does this affect the way the game engine handles radar?

hehe, sounds more like HARPOON in the pacific, which of course on a strategic or operational level would be 10000000% unplayable.
groovy.

still, " harpoon" game styled for WWII for specific battles would be very much fun indeed.

< Message edited by Jorm -- 5/11/2009 1:28:06 AM >

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RE: Radar Spotting - 5/11/2009 1:19:01 AM

Nikademus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorm

Blimps ? wow, they were in the pacific ?, did they do any thing useful ?
Didnt one sink a uboat once when it surfaced directly below it ,else they were too slow to be of much use ?.
Interesting

cheers

well....West coast.....so yes, "Pacific"

IIRC , U-134 shot down a blimp during an encounter. Ultimately, ultra long range patrolling aircraft proved the best platform for taking on subs. Blimps are great for covering sporting events.

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RE: Radar Spotting - 5/11/2009 2:56:21 AM

Dili

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quote:

Be careful. If you start down that road, you will also have to allow for R&D to develop the tail so you can use sonar below the thermal layers and then a nixie to handle the acoustic torpedos and both a height finding and air search radar and jet engines and all kinds of stuff. By the way, do we get helicopters????

To model sonar it is enough to have a way to tell the game how much the detection probabilities improve with that equipemnt in a ship/task force. If that value is opened it can even model diferent sonar.

(in reply to Nikademus)

Post #: 15

RE: Radar Spotting - 5/11/2009 7:22:11 AM

CV Zuikaku

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

quote:

Be careful. If you start down that road, you will also have to allow for R&D to develop the tail so you can use sonar below the thermal layers and then a nixie to handle the acoustic torpedos and both a height finding and air search radar and jet engines and all kinds of stuff. By the way, do we get helicopters????

To model sonar it is enough to have a way to tell the game how much the detection probabilities improve with that equipemnt in a ship/task force. If that value is opened it can even model diferent sonar.

But they didn't do that

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Post #: 16

RE: Radar Spotting - 5/11/2009 10:56:41 AM

Yamato hugger

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Umm, anything CAN be done. Question is where does it rate on the priority scale and how long would you like to wait? Every one said we want this and this and this and this and...

The guys further up the food chain said ok, you can have that, and maybe that. Anything more and our great grandchildren will be finishing this.

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Post #: 17

RE: Radar Spotting - 5/11/2009 12:15:44 PM

m10bob

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

but we have blimps.

Blimps ? wow, they were in the pacific ?, did they do any thing useful ?
Didnt one sink a uboat once when it surfaced directly below it ,else they were too slow to be of much use ?.
Interesting

cheers

At roughly 60 miles per hour, cruising, how fast does a blimp need to move, to be effective against a sub?

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Post #: 18

RE: Radar Spotting - 5/11/2009 1:45:39 PM

dazoline II

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FYI there is a WW2 Harpoon database, WW 2 DB.

I tried it out for a bit but the scenarios I made were a bit spotty in spotting the enemy. 2 different carrier's within 20 miles of one another and zilch on spotting. That was a few years ago when Matrix first put their Harpoon issue out. But looking at the webpage above there are no more scenario additions since then so its probably largely untouched.

Although an interesting idea none the less.

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Post #: 19

RE: Radar Spotting - 5/11/2009 4:00:40 PM

John Lansford

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Blimps were excellent coastal ASW assets; they could loiter over a spotted sub's location for hours, couldn't be detected by the sub unless it got so close to the surface it could be spotted itself, and carried plenty of ordinance. Speed wasn't a problem; at 60mph they were almost 10x faster than a submerged sub, and had a great range as well. Not so good at escorting a convoy due to weather issues, but coastal ASW patrolling was well within their capabilities.

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RE: Radar Spotting - 5/11/2009 4:29:13 PM

Jorm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

Blimps were excellent coastal ASW assets; they could loiter over a spotted sub's location for hours, couldn't be detected by the sub unless it got so close to the surface it could be spotted itself, and carried plenty of ordinance.� Speed wasn't a problem; at 60mph they were almost 10x faster than a submerged sub, and had a great range as well.� Not so good at escorting a convoy due to weather issues, but coastal ASW patrolling was well within their capabilities.

I recall reading a great book called "Aircraft Versus Submarine 1912-1945" by Dr Alfred Pricesimilar that mentioned ASW blimps but described them as being reasonably ineffective due to their slow speed, ie little chance of sucesfully attacking a sub.
BUT just doing a google on blimp and anti submarine reveals heaps of really interesting stuff. on them.
so thanks for the heads up on this one.

< Message edited by Jorm -- 5/11/2009 4:30:33 PM >

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RE: Radar Spotting - 5/11/2009 4:39:40 PM

Dili

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Blimp Squadron ZP-14 in Mediterranean Theatre

http://www.warwingsart.com/LTA/portlyautey.html

http://www.warwingsart.com/LTA/zp-14.html

< Message edited by Dili -- 5/11/2009 5:14:46 PM >

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RE: Radar Spotting - 5/13/2009 6:06:18 PM

W T Door

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

but we have blimps.

Blimps ? wow, they were in the pacific ?, did they do any thing useful ?
Didnt one sink a uboat once when it surfaced directly below it ,else they were too slow to be of much use ?.
Interesting

cheers

There were blimp bases at Tillamook, Oregon (nice aviation museum in one of the old blimp hanger, BTW), Moffett Field, California and Tustin, California. The Army also maintained minor blimp facilities in places like Fort Chroncite (now Golden Gate National Seashore) and most of the other major coat artillery facilities (no references immediatly at hand, these are all places I've personally observed the old hangers).

quote:

Nope no fire control devices in WITP or AE. This is another aspect that is modeled "more abstractly" rather than "less abstractly".

And there are no sonar devices.

And there are not even any bathothermometer devices!!!

If we ever do a "from scratch" rewrite - some of things things will definitly be on the list (especially sonar) - but for now - for WITP and AE - they are still absent.

Of course as soon as this is done people will get all wound up about modelling layers, knuckles and all manner of propagation effects, plus somebody will insist that their program develops sqs 56 sonars and mk 52 torpedoes in 1944.

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RE: Radar Spotting - 5/14/2009 2:31:04 AM

Blackhorse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: W T Door
There were blimp bases at Tillamook, Oregon (nice aviation museum in one of the old blimp hanger, BTW), Moffett Field, California and Tustin, California.

And in AE you'll get a Squadron of blimps at each of those three locations.

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