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Maps - 5/14/2009 7:56:58 AM   
Greywolf

 

Posts: 105
Joined: 11/15/2000
Status: offline 		Excerpt from another Thread

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: obermeister

Will the saved games be in an excel format or something like that? One of the things I'd really like to do in solitare mode is be able to set up a game to mimic what's happening in our biweekly cardboard game. That way I can try out strategies in simulation before trying it in the "real" cardboard simulation.



The unitfied map versus the 6 different map scales in WIF FE makes this unworkable. Sorry.


That is my main grip against MWiF ( or CWiF BTW ), I understand that the unified map cost a lot of man hours of work and tremendous bucks but it just dont make sense for me and I dont like it.

The old Pacific map do a great job of showing the importance of aero-naval war on the pacific with simplifying and somewhat abstracting the land-war. Same for Africa that is backward fighting area with very low density of troups and best shown as holding box.

With the unified map I am not sure the counter mix avaliable nor the Japanese production could live up to the task. Same for the chineses that probably need more armies at start ( or not :p ). The supply situation in China will become harder to settle and you have a lot more mountain hex to assault than before.

Frankly I would like the first expansion to have an option to be back to full compatibility in map with WiF or at very last to play ONLY on WiF European map, like it show on the boardgame ( no huge afirca nor scandinavia for me, thanks ).

The loss of the compatibilty between the boardgame and the computer game make it 2 different beast and that is not a good thing, IMNSHO. MWiF would have been a great tool for boardgamer to 'save' game or as a playaid for production, convoy and such.

Will the 2 maps scenario play with all of Africa at MWiF scale or just North Africa ? if so, will Territorials cease to be an options and become mandatory ?

I understand you can achieve a player agrement not to use some areas of the mpa, but the Ai wont play by thoses rules.

P.S. I hope the option to type in the die-roll and choose the unit you draw from the stacks would be left. They are nice things to play with when setting up situation and learning the game.

I stopped playing CWiF because of the unified map, I hope there is a demo of full map MWiF so I can judge before buying.

_____________________________

Lt. Col. Ivan 'Greywolf' Kerensky
Post #: 1
RE: Maps - 5/14/2009 1:27:32 PM   
Mike Parker

 

Posts: 583
Joined: 12/30/2008
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		Honestly, and I am not trying to be flippant,l if you want a tool to 'save' a game being played on the board Cyberboard is just about the perfect option.  I might be stepping beyond my level of knowledge here, but I would surmise had the WiF design team thought they could have had a unified map like MWIF will have they would have done so.

Having a map like this will cause some changes in how folks go about things, it will blunt some esablished strategies, and open up things for some new one, this can only be good from my perspective.  I for one am looking forward to the single map quite expectantly.  Playing the board game I also always wished for a single map scale and for it to cover the areas without as many off-map boxes.  I knew the practicality of how WiF did it, I would have been disappointed frankly of MWIF had not taken the opportunity to do a single map.


(in reply to Greywolf)
Post #: 2
RE: Maps - 5/14/2009 2:56:23 PM   
micheljq


Posts: 791
Joined: 3/31/2008
From: Quebec
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greywolf

The loss of the compatibilty between the boardgame and the computer game make it 2 different beast and that is not a good thing, IMNSHO. MWiF would have been a great tool for boardgamer to 'save' game or as a playaid for production, convoy and such.



Did you try Vassal or Cyberboard? You can use those as a softcopy of your wif board. But it's kind of a lot of job.

(in reply to Greywolf)
Post #: 3
RE: Maps - 5/14/2009 3:46:08 PM   
bo

 

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline 		Good lord can't we get this game on the computer up and running and on the market by Matrix before we say will we buy it or not. I have been watching these forums off and on for five years and now that were close to fruitation and not frustration, lets give it [the game] a chance to show its capabilities before we worry about the board game and maps and such.

Willy

(in reply to Greywolf)
Post #: 4
RE: Maps - 5/14/2009 4:38:47 PM   
Mike Parker

 

Posts: 583
Joined: 12/30/2008
From: Houston TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

Good lord can't we get this game on the computer up and running and on the market by Matrix before we say will we buy it or not. I have been watching these forums off and on for five years and now that were close to fruitation and not frustration, lets give it [the game] a chance to show its capabilities before we worry about the board game and maps and such.

Willy


*chuckles*

Nope

*ducks*

its human nature

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 5
RE: Maps - 5/14/2009 8:01:00 PM   
bo

 

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Parker


quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

Good lord can't we get this game on the computer up and running and on the market by Matrix before we say will we buy it or not. I have been watching these forums off and on for five years and now that were close to fruitation and not frustration, lets give it [the game] a chance to show its capabilities before we worry about the board game and maps and such.

Willy


*chuckles*

Nope

*ducks*

its human nature


Ok Mike I understand *chuckles* and its human nature but I am having trouble with Nope and*ducks*! Maybe all our ducks in a row? This is tougher for me than sea squares need your help, but I dont want you to step on someones toes so maybe you can explain it with great care

Willy

(in reply to Mike Parker)
Post #: 6
RE: Maps - 5/14/2009 8:09:58 PM   
obermeister


Posts: 74
Joined: 4/24/2009
Status: offline 		Oh I intend to buy the game regardless. I know it's going to be different but that will be fun too.

I don't know much about Vassal and Cyberboard. Has anyone out there done a WiF game with these?

(in reply to Mike Parker)
Post #: 7
RE: Maps - 5/14/2009 8:32:47 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obermeister

Oh I intend to buy the game regardless. I know it's going to be different but that will be fun too.

I don't know much about Vassal and Cyberboard. Has anyone out there done a WiF game with these?

There are WiF modules out there downloadable for both. There is also a discussion group on Yahoo for understanding how to play with either and to find opponents.

I set up our last game of WiF using Cyberboard after the Axis capitulated at the end of JF45 - just to see how it would all play out. It worked very well for solitaire.

_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to obermeister)
Post #: 8
RE: Maps - 5/15/2009 7:23:39 AM   
Greywolf

 

Posts: 105
Joined: 11/15/2000
Status: offline 		Try Zuntzu, it's Windows only, but frankly it is the faster, more powerfull and fastest (when loaded) cyberbox I ever seen. Quite bluffing. And you really get the map and counter feeling with it.

_____________________________

Lt. Col. Ivan 'Greywolf' Kerensky

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 9
RE: Maps - 5/15/2009 10:27:33 PM   
obermeister


Posts: 74
Joined: 4/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greywolf

Try Zuntzu, it's Windows only, but frankly it is the faster, more powerfull and fastest (when loaded) cyberbox I ever seen. Quite bluffing. And you really get the map and counter feeling with it.


I downloaded Zuntzu, but I can't seem to find a world in flames module for it using google. Does someone have a link to one?

(in reply to Greywolf)
Post #: 10
RE: Maps - 5/17/2009 9:09:10 AM   
csharpmao

 

Posts: 83
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		No need to use google. Just go on the zuntzu site, go on file part, and on letter W, bingo, you'll find world in flames :
http://www.zuntzu.com/files.htm#W

(in reply to obermeister)
Post #: 11
RE: Maps - 5/18/2009 12:09:58 AM   
bo

 

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: csharpmao

No need to use google. Just go on the zuntzu site, go on file part, and on letter W, bingo, you'll find world in flames :
http://www.zuntzu.com/files.htm#W


Csharpmao what is this file? What does it do, I downloaded it and I cannot open it. It is a dogged ear file which I cant open, what am I doing wrong?

Willy

(in reply to csharpmao)
Post #: 12
RE: Maps - 5/18/2009 6:05:19 AM   
csharpmao

 

Posts: 83
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		This file must be opened with the zuntzu software, a freeware downloadable on the same site.
Then, you can "play" WiF alone, the only thing you can do is placing/moving units, rolling dices, and saving the actual game.
It can be used to play solitaire or head to head game, but there is no AI, and no tools to play by email or netplay.

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 13
RE: Maps - 5/18/2009 5:06:58 PM   
bo

 

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: csharpmao

This file must be opened with the zuntzu software, a freeware downloadable on the same site.
Then, you can "play" WiF alone, the only thing you can do is placing/moving units, rolling dices, and saving the actual game.
It can be used to play solitaire or head to head game, but there is no AI, and no tools to play by email or netplay.


Thank you Csharpmao its working fine the maps are well done, couple of questions, I know nothing about this game except what I read on the forums. The graphics I see are they from the board game or from the computer version? I assume the board game but with the zoom feature Im not sure, if you have a moment please let me know what to do next like placing units how do they move, How do you go to the next turn etc. If you dont want to do it on the forums please e-mail me at Bowenw1@verizon.net Again thank you for this information if nothing else just looking at the maps is pretty awsome.

Willy

(in reply to csharpmao)
Post #: 14
RE: Maps - 5/18/2009 6:28:28 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obermeister


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greywolf

Try Zuntzu, it's Windows only, but frankly it is the faster, more powerfull and fastest (when loaded) cyberbox I ever seen. Quite bluffing. And you really get the map and counter feeling with it.


I downloaded Zuntzu, but I can't seem to find a world in flames module for it using google. Does someone have a link to one?

Two things about this Zuntzu.
First, webinstallations sucks. You don't know what you install, you can't copy it to an internet-less computer. It sucks.
Second, as soon as I have installed this s....., I had a BSOD (Blue Screen of Death).

So I stick with Vassal.

(in reply to obermeister)
Post #: 15
RE: Maps - 5/18/2009 6:43:06 PM   
Mike Parker

 

Posts: 583
Joined: 12/30/2008
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		I just installed Zuntzu also, I hate this type of installation package (see Patrice above) and some of the unit factors are wrong.

I am going to check out Vassal, I have used it before for Federation and Empire lets see how it does with Wif

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 16
RE: Maps - 5/19/2009 12:17:11 AM   
obermeister


Posts: 74
Joined: 4/24/2009
Status: offline 		I've got Vassal up and running, and Patrice's save file to boot. All very nice. I'm sure no one uses the Politics in Flames, but does anyone know where in the module the flag counters for the minor countries is located? I also can't seem to find the odd sized convoys (1's, 2's, etc) for convoys in flames. Everything else is no problemo though. Very nice!

(in reply to Mike Parker)
Post #: 17
RE: Maps - 5/19/2009 4:45:58 AM   
handeman

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 10/27/2006
Status: offline 		From a programming perspective, is the map on big file (bmp, jpg)? or is it a tiled map? and are the hexagons part of the map or are they an overlay?

thanks

(in reply to obermeister)
Post #: 18
RE: Maps - 5/19/2009 6:07:43 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: handeman

From a programming perspective, is the map on big file (bmp, jpg)? or is it a tiled map? and are the hexagons part of the map or are they an overlay?

thanks

Are you asking about the Vassel implementation or the MWIF version I am coding?

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to handeman)
Post #: 19
RE: Maps - 5/19/2009 8:13:05 PM   
handeman

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 10/27/2006
Status: offline 		The mwif version.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 20
RE: Maps - 5/20/2009 7:59:43 AM   
Greywolf

 

Posts: 105
Joined: 11/15/2000
Status: offline 		Zuntzu HAVE netplay.

And if some scan of the counters are a bit out of date (wich ones ?) at very last they are the right shape and color, not like the ugly one from VASSAL. After all, even my gaming set have not the last counter edition for everything...

I found VASSAL slower and more cumbersome, especially for zooming, moving around, trying to have a view of the whole situation.



_____________________________

Lt. Col. Ivan 'Greywolf' Kerensky

(in reply to handeman)
Post #: 21
RE: Maps - 5/20/2009 9:37:17 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: handeman

The mwif version.

The map is 195 by 360 (wrap-around) = cylinder of 70,200 hexes.

At max resolution a hex fits within a rectangle of 136 wide by 152 high pixels (24 bit color). The other 7 levels of resolution are multiples of 17 by 19.

Each hex is draw using the background terrain with overlaid images of the various game elements (e.g., city icons, rivers, units depictions). However, the 5000+ coastal hexes are taken from a pre-drawn file that shows the coastlines in fine detail.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to handeman)
Post #: 22
RE: Maps - 5/20/2009 9:45:29 AM   
Caquineur


Posts: 96
Joined: 4/21/2009
From: Aix en Provence, France, Europe
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

...The map is 195 by 360 (wrap-around) = cylinder of 70,200 hexes.
...

Do you happen to know how many of them are hexes and how many are hex-dots (just curious) ? If not, please do not count , you've got enough work already !

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
... the 5000+ coastal hexes are taken from a pre-drawn file that shows the coastlines in fine detail.

Wow !

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 23
RE: Maps - 5/20/2009 3:21:01 PM   
micheljq


Posts: 791
Joined: 3/31/2008
From: Quebec
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greywolf

Zuntzu HAVE netplay.

And if some scan of the counters are a bit out of date (wich ones ?) at very last they are the right shape and color, not like the ugly one from VASSAL. After all, even my gaming set have not the last counter edition for everything...

I found VASSAL slower and more cumbersome, especially for zooming, moving around, trying to have a view of the whole situation.



True for Vassal because it uses JAVA, you need at least 1 Gig of RAM I think. I have an issue with the counters in SunTzu, when many of them are stacked in a single hex, it looks cumbersome. Anticipating MWiF anyway.

(in reply to Greywolf)
Post #: 24
RE: Maps - 5/20/2009 4:00:02 PM   
bo

 

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greywolf

Zuntzu HAVE netplay.

And if some scan of the counters are a bit out of date (wich ones ?) at very last they are the right shape and color, not like the ugly one from VASSAL. After all, even my gaming set have not the last counter edition for everything...

I found VASSAL slower and more cumbersome, especially for zooming, moving around, trying to have a view of the whole situation.



Have to agree with you on that one Greywolf the zoom on vassal is not only cumbersome but extremely time consuming, Zuntzu as Micheljq says stacking is annoying and takes up a lot of room on the map, I agree wih that and also when he says okay lets wait for MWIF. Thats why I asked in a new post about how the zoom will be handled in MWIF and Steve said the screen will be redrawn, I sure hope its nothing like vassal. I would like to say if Zuntzu can do the zoom like they do why cant Matrix do it. I may have said the wrong thing here because I dont understand programming or what problems they may encounter and that a boardgame set up by Zuntzu on their site may not have half the features [ eg. caculating odds taking into consideration such as weather etc.] the MWIF computer game will have, which could change the way zoom is handled by Steve and Matrix.

Willy

(in reply to Greywolf)
Post #: 25
RE: Maps - 5/20/2009 6:10:44 PM   
Zorachus99


Posts: 1066
Joined: 9/15/2000
From: Palo Alto, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greywolf

Zuntzu HAVE netplay.

And if some scan of the counters are a bit out of date (wich ones ?) at very last they are the right shape and color, not like the ugly one from VASSAL. After all, even my gaming set have not the last counter edition for everything...

I found VASSAL slower and more cumbersome, especially for zooming, moving around, trying to have a view of the whole situation.




The latest update of Vassal greatly increases the speed and responsiveness.

_____________________________

Most men can survive adversity, the true test of a man's character is power. -Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to Greywolf)
Post #: 26
RE: Maps - 5/20/2009 9:21:59 PM   
bo

 

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorachus99


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greywolf

Zuntzu HAVE netplay.

And if some scan of the counters are a bit out of date (wich ones ?) at very last they are the right shape and color, not like the ugly one from VASSAL. After all, even my gaming set have not the last counter edition for everything...

I found VASSAL slower and more cumbersome, especially for zooming, moving around, trying to have a view of the whole situation.




The latest update of Vassal greatly increases the speed and responsiveness.

Sorry Zorachus not so, I downloaded 3.1.5 and it is annoyingly slow at redrawing the maps, unless you know a new version of vassal I dont know about, now maybe it was even worse before, I could not imagine how bad that was.

Willy

(in reply to Zorachus99)
Post #: 27
RE: Maps - 5/20/2009 9:40:57 PM   
SamuraiProgrmmr

 

Posts: 353
Joined: 10/17/2004
From: Paducah, Kentucky
Status: offline 		For the record, I also got huge improvement on all fronts from the new Vassal version 3.1.5.   They changed how they were using memory and it made all of the difference in the world.

I am not doubting you, bo.  In fact I feel your pain.

_____________________________

Bridge is the best wargame going .. Where else can you find a tournament every weekend?

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 28
RE: Maps - 5/21/2009 1:25:22 AM   
bo

 

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SamuraiProgrammer

For the record, I also got huge improvement on all fronts from the new Vassal version 3.1.5.   They changed how they were using memory and it made all of the difference in the world.

I am not doubting you, bo.  In fact I feel your pain.

Hi Samurai you sound like President Bill Clinton "I feel your pain" I have never seen vassal before I had downloaded it the other day thanks to one of the posts or I would never have known about it. So I really have nothing to compare it to before so I will take your word its faster than it used to be, but in my opinion its pretty slow changing zoom. Maybe its my computer, its a two year old Dell with 2.8 dual intel chip, 2 meg of ram, nvidia 7800 graphics card with 250 memory. Maybe to slow for all the new graphics?

Willy


(in reply to SamuraiProgrmmr)
Post #: 29
RE: Maps - 5/21/2009 2:53:48 PM   
SamuraiProgrmmr

 

Posts: 353
Joined: 10/17/2004
From: Paducah, Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bo


Hi Samurai you sound like President Bill Clinton "I feel your pain"

Willy




OUCH! You have cut me to the quick!

quote:

ORIGINAL: bo


I have never seen vassal before I had downloaded it the other day thanks to one of the posts or I would never have known about it. So I really have nothing to compare it to before so I will take your word its faster than it used to be, but in my opinion its pretty slow changing zoom. Maybe its my computer, its a two year old Dell with 2.8 dual intel chip, 2 meg of ram, nvidia 7800 graphics card with 250 memory. Maybe to slow for all the new graphics?

Willy




I haven't actually tried to play WIF with Vassal since I got the newest version (just about a week ago).

Before it was so slow, it was painful.

I did open the WIF module and loaded some of the maps and was impressed by how much quicker they loaded. I didn't try to zoom or anything.

I have played another big game (Federation and Empire) and noticed huge improvements in speed.

Your machine seems like enough horsepower to do it (I am assuming you meant 2G of Ram). I will try to take a look at it again and see just how fast it works under a load.

One possibility is to update your video drivers, but that can sometimes make things worse.

Another thing you might need to do is to change the amount of memory that Vassal is allowed to use. This used to involve digging into configuration files. With the new version, I think it is on a Preferences page somewhere. I seem to remember reading that the WIF module needed to have these settings increased for performance.

I said I feel your pain because a few months ago, I was on a 3 week business trip and found out my laptop wouldn't *quite* keep up with a new game I wanted to play in the evenings in the hotel roorm. It would work. Just not very well.

I also remember the days of yore when Civilization was a new game and it took 10 minutes or more to start a new game. ARRRRGH!!


_____________________________

Bridge is the best wargame going .. Where else can you find a tournament every weekend?

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 30
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