Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: pad152

Most ships seem to be one hit wonders, this looks more like the Brit Navy (aluminum ships) in the Falklands then steel ships of WWII! 

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ORIGINAL: steveh11Matrix
This time.

If they ran it again, would they likely get the same numbers?

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so I will fly in the engineers via Mavis transports and patrol planes from Kwaj and begin improving the ports.

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There are others but these are the ones with a land connection to combat theatres - these units can NEVER be loaded on ships but they can march across borders - I would strongly recommend a house rule but thats a matter for players

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ORIGINAL: Panther Bait

Ummm, wouldn't it stand to reason that in an atypically more devastating naval attack (as stated by the design team this attack was atypical) that flak losses would be lower than usual?  Meaning the damage was worse to the ships because the flak was unusually ineffective?  Or even the opposite, a lucky combination of early hits severely reduced later flak and therefore later waves of attack craft were more effective than usual? 

If the design team knows off hand, what is a typical range of Japanese air losses that you are seeing the PH attacks?

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Patrol planes can now transport troops?

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ORIGINAL: Jones944
I'm not really sure why people are basing any opinions off of one combat result file. Are they trying to make the game developers wish they hadn't posted this AAR? If after 20 battles there is a discernable pattern then someone should say something, but after one attack? Wow.

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ORIGINAL: Panther Bait

Ummm, wouldn't it stand to reason that in an atypically more devastating naval attack (as stated by the design team this attack was atypical) that flak losses would be lower than usual?  Meaning the damage was worse to the ships because the flak was unusually ineffective?  Or even the opposite, a lucky combination of early hits severely reduced later flak and therefore later waves of attack craft were more effective than usual? 

If the design team knows off hand, what is a typical range of Japanese air losses that you are seeing the PH attacks?

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ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

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ORIGINAL: Panther Bait

Ummm, wouldn't it stand to reason that in an atypically more devastating naval attack (as stated by the design team this attack was atypical) that flak losses would be lower than usual?  Meaning the damage was worse to the ships because the flak was unusually ineffective?  Or even the opposite, a lucky combination of early hits severely reduced later flak and therefore later waves of attack craft were more effective than usual? 

If the design team knows off hand, what is a typical range of Japanese air losses that you are seeing the PH attacks?

Right, but my point was/is Pearl was a unique event in the war. In game all attacks are treated the same, so the results we see for the Pearl attack will be the same kind of results we will see for all attacks (unless they've added something new to the engine).

So that said, the Pearl attack should probably always be worse than historical, as historically it was a total surprise, but the game should treat it as a normal attack if the game can't differentiate the Pearl raid from other attacks that occur in game.

If the average result is what Terminus posted (10-40 shot down out of 300+ attackers), then we can assume all attacks in game will see total surprise levels of losses instead of historical *wartime footing* levels of flak losses, which were much higher than Pearl.

Jim

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ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Extrapolating anything from one combat report, especially with FOW, is pretty futile. But, I totally understand why everything is scrutinized and why all the questions are asked. You guys only have these results to go on and curiosity and anticipation are very high.

With that said, I always thought that the surprise attacks on December 7th actually were not typical attacks, in that they had several bonuses/penalties applied for the Japanese and Allies that don't apply on other turns (as long as Surprise is on). I don't think that has changed in AE, so I would be particularly cautious about extrapolating from a Dec. 7th surprise attack to make any assumptions about the game.

I can say for sure though that the last replay of the PH attack that I did this morning 2 BBs were lost and more Japanese planes were shot down. My sense is that the median is about 4 BBs lost, but I've seen just about every possible result. I have no idea what the average flak losses at PH are in AE, haven't really tried to keep track of that, though I know others on the team have spent a lot of time over development fine tuning many parts of the design for historical results, including flak losses.

I encourage you all to ask questions, but I also encourage you _not_ to jump to conclusions.

Regards,

- Erik

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ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Extrapolating anything from one combat report, especially with FOW, is pretty futile. But, I totally understand why everything is scrutinized and why all the questions are asked. You guys only have these results to go on and curiosity and anticipation are very high.

With that said, I always thought that the surprise attacks on December 7th actually were not typical attacks, in that they had several bonuses/penalties applied for the Japanese and Allies that don't apply on other turns (as long as Surprise is on). I don't think that has changed in AE, so I would be particularly cautious about extrapolating from a Dec. 7th surprise attack to make any assumptions about the game.

I can say for sure though that the last replay of the PH attack that I did this morning 2 BBs were lost and more Japanese planes were shot down. My sense is that the median is about 4 BBs lost, but I've seen just about every possible result. I have no idea what the average flak losses at PH are in AE, haven't really tried to keep track of that, though I know others on the team have spent a lot of time over development fine tuning many parts of the design for historical results, including flak losses.

I encourage you all to ask questions, but I also encourage you _not_ to jump to conclusions.

Regards,

- Erik

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ORIGINAL: Terminus

"teaks to probabilities"? I'm not a wood merchant...

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ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Well, I have run dozens of PH attacks, and I can safely say Erik is 100% correct. I have seen the gauntlet as well. This one has been my single biggest success quite frankly. 1 or 2 BBs is typical. I wouldnt even go as far to say that 4 BBs is the norm (at least from what I have seen). One thing I will say though in run after run, Jap aircraft losses are on the light side.

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They always could. I tend to use some of them to get out BF, AA, and Engineers from Luzon to China by using them. I play with various mods and as long as a base in China has a port, you can do this.

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ORIGINAL: Terminus

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ORIGINAL: pad152

Most ships seem to be one hit wonders, this looks more like the Brit Navy (aluminum ships) in the Falklands then steel ships of WWII! 

Again, this was an extraordinarily successful PH attack. Don't make a general assumption based on it.

" Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. " President Muffley

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ORIGINAL: Dili

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They always could. I tend to use some of them to get out BF, AA, and Engineers from Luzon to China by using them. I play with various mods and as long as a base in China has a port, you can do this.

Hehe always something missing, always something to learn...i played witp several times and didn't know that one.

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ORIGINAL: AdmSpruance

Im a bit concerned about the effectiveness of the IJN midget subs....2 torpedo hits on 2 seperate BBs....is this an unusual result?

Do IJN midget subs automatically penetrate Pearl Harbor at the start or is there a die roll to see if they make it through the anti-submarine nets? Is there a die roll for US ASW ships such as the Ward to attack them before they enter the harbor? Are IJN midget subs going to be restricted to the the actual number that were placed in service in RL?

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ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


The midgets must successfully launch, not get lost, get past the TFs off Pearl (one ASW and one minesweeping), get through the nets, and the minefields, navigate the channel, and survive any engagement with ASW capable ships inside the harbor.