Very interesting (and fun) first game

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Very interesting (and fun) first game

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> Very interesting (and fun) first game

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Very interesting (and fun) first game - 5/24/2002 7:33:44 PM

Beckles

Posts: 128
Joined: 4/9/2002
From: Kansas City, MO, USA
Status: offline

I didn't keep detailed enough notes to make a real AAR, I really didn't expect my first game to be so fun. For a starter I tried scenario 1, Coral Sea with all the default settings playing as the Allied side. I moved my carriers about 8 hexes South-Southeast of Gili Gili and had PM stocked with fighters mostly and a few level bombers and the Dauntlasses. Soon enough we detected a group of AP's and DD's outside of Gili Gili and my carriers creamed them pretty good with some help from LBA at PM and Cooktown (yes, that was the first surprise, my LBA probably got a dozen bomb hits throughout the course of this relatively short game, whereas from other AAR's I expected them to be mostly CAP bait).

Soon enough we detected the Jap carrier group North of Buna. My LBA from PM (I had moved more Aviation support from Australia by this time and built up the LBA at PM) scored a couple of hits each on Shoho and Shokaku. By the next turn it looked like they were retreating. My carriers kept trying to leave too, so figuring the Jap carriers were leaving, I turned them onto Patrol/Do Not Retire to keep them in the area, thinking they'd have free reign now. Well, once I did that, both carrier groups shot towards each other, with the US group now three hexes Northeast of Gili Gili and the Jap carriers 4 hexes West of them. We trade strikes and in the end the Shoho, Shokaku, and Zuikaku are all heavily damaged and burning, but on my side the Yorktown also took a bunch of torpedoes and a few bombs, while the Lexington took a couple of bomb hits. All my carrier based air diverted to PM. The Lexington was only 40% system damage and 15% flotation damage, and I would have kept her on scene if I could get some planes on her, but I don't think you can do that unless she goes back to Noumea, right? So, both carriers end up heading back to Noumea with some DD's and a CA that also got hit pretty hard (she had gotten torpedoed by a sub actually early in the turn after the group moved).

Now, here's the real surprise, I detached 4 CA's and 4 DD's and told them to go to the hex where the carriers had been, figuring they'd engage the Jap escorts who had split off into their own group. Well, what in fact ended up happening was they engaged a group with the burning Shokaku and Zuikaku and an undamaged DD. All three went to the bottom. Next they engaged a group with the burning Shoho, a damaged DD, and an undamaged DD. Both damaged ships ended up going to the bottom before all was said and done. I then pulled the group out and sent them back to Noumea, it was now Day 12, and the scenario would be ending soon anyway and the air forces from Rabaul would probably tear them apart if I didn't get out of dodge (which they did a little before I got out of range, though nothing sunk, just a couple of damaged CA's).

Just thought I'd share this since I don't recall seeing another AAR where carriers had been engaged in a surface action.

Post #: 1

- 5/24/2002 8:04:51 PM

Griffin

Posts: 21
Joined: 4/19/2002
From: Hong Kong
Status: offline

I am newbie too. I think you are doing something interesting and you are really lucky that the Japanese LBA are not hitting your surface combat group. Good job!

(in reply to Beckles)

Post #: 2

- 5/24/2002 8:13:21 PM

Beckles

Posts: 128
Joined: 4/9/2002
From: Kansas City, MO, USA
Status: offline

Right after the carrier air battle the weather turned to crap. They got hit by some LBA from Rabaul still though, and like I said they got a few good licks on a couple of CA's, but they should both make it (they are now out of LBA range from Rabaul).

Oh yeah, since I didn't explictly say it, the Yorktown went down, but the Lexington made it back to Noumea.

I just wish I had been playing the full game now ... I'd trade 3 Jap carriers (2 CV + CVL) for one of mine all day long ...

(in reply to Beckles)

Post #: 3

- 5/25/2002 12:57:22 AM

Hartmann

Posts: 888
Joined: 11/28/2000
Status: offline

I sense one problem here.

It seems to me like the automated routine to detach highly damaged ships from the main TF lead to the situation that the Japanese carriers were left with no escort to speak of while the big and faster CAs already had steamed home.

If this will be confirmed it could turn out to be an exploitable loophole in playing against the AI: first do a carrier strike, then rush in with the CAs to finish off the detached flattops. I'd say a carrier has to always be well guarded against the threat of big guns - especially when it's limping home! Yup, we all know of the Yorktown, but some measly destroyers against the sub threat is not enough.

Hartmann

(in reply to Beckles)

Post #: 4

- 5/25/2002 2:09:59 AM

dgaad

Posts: 864
Joined: 7/25/2001
From: Hockeytown
Status: offline

Actually, the fact is that heavily damaged flattops that could not be towed at more than 5 MPH were usually scuttled because of the very reason of the threat of fast moving surface craft getting to them.

My opinion here is that if the carrier group has lost virtually all of its air capacity (all carriers with a float / systems damage in excess of 45 each) then the carriers should be detached and the rest of the group that can make steam retreat from the area.

The AI should, if anything, be more willing to scuttle flattops in this situation. The only reason this hasn't come up before is probably because Beckles was the first person to attempt this kind of strategy, got it to work, and reported it. I know some others have attempted it, but it may not have worked.

I'm going to guess that the AI routine in fact does make an assessment of the surface threat, and does have an algorithim to determine whether detaching the damaged carriers is warranted. From the description of the situation that Beckles gave, it seems to me the Japs lost their carrier capability, did not eliminate the enemy carrier capability, and therefore had no option but to detach and retreat due to the threat of enemy airstrikes.

_____________________________

Last time I checked, the forums were messed up. ;)

(in reply to Beckles)

Post #: 5

- 5/25/2002 2:22:40 AM

Hartmann

Posts: 888
Joined: 11/28/2000
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What we would need is some info about how damaged these carriers really were (I mean as in "really", not with FOW distortions). Or better: how fast the routine comes up with the decision to detach. Regarding the experience with my own TFs, I'd say it is a bit too hasty with this, sometimes.

Hartmann

(in reply to Beckles)

Post #: 6

- 5/25/2002 2:26:58 AM

Beckles

Posts: 128
Joined: 4/9/2002
From: Kansas City, MO, USA
Status: offline

They must have been pretty heavily damaged because I moved the TF into the hex where they were the previous turn (four hexes away ... maybe five) and they were all still there, so they hadn't moved during that time.

I think the right answer is maybe they should have been scuttled? Of course, who can blame the AI for being reluctant to scuttle a carrier (even if it does save you 10% in VP's)? I know I was reluctant to scuttle the Yorktown ...

Of course my job was made all the easier by the fact that all the damaged ships were in two groups instead of one also ...

(in reply to Beckles)

Post #: 7

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> Very interesting (and fun) first game

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