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- 10/29/2000 10:50:00 PM

Fabs

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quote:

Originally posted by Don: I just saw "Battle of the Bulge" the other day for the first time, but before I could even think about all the things that were bad about it I saw "U-571". This movie makes "B in the B" look good! Horrible casting, wooden dialogue, a far-fetched story that is completely made up made me want to On the other hand, I just got "Stalingrad" and "Cross of Iron", neither of which I have seen. Can't wait to see them! Don

Hey, Don, cool smiley!! How did you get it to do that??

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Post #: 61

- 10/30/2000 12:56:00 AM

Kopfjaeger

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I think the point should be looked at from a different angle. Sure there are loads of crap war movies that have silly role models/heroes/villains and rubbish storylines/scripts/dialoge etc..but that all pales into insignificance when you are faced with total lack of attention to detail. Battle of the Bulge, arguably entertaining, but what was the point in making a film of one of the greatest tank battles in history by using US M-60's and Pattons striped up as Tigers and Panthers?! Laughable. Many films have succumbed to this, Big Red, Tobruk, Bridge at Remagen, Castle Keep to name but a few. Frankly it is similar in context (albeit extreme) to portraying medieval knights shooting each other with Glocks... Anyone else care to comment? Regards

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Post #: 62

- 10/30/2000 4:46:00 AM

Don

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Fabs, check out http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/002716.html There's a million of these things at the linked website!

Don

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Post #: 63

- 10/30/2000 6:32:00 AM

Lou

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From: Central Maine
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quote:

Originally posted by Randy: Rat Patrol? The Germans in the M-3 half track and the M-7 Priest SPG. I guess those two jeeps won the war! Semper Fi Randy

I don't remember a lot about Rat Patrol except that after seeing on of the characters taking out a German sentry with a sling shot made me really REALLY want a sling shot too. My mother put the kibosh on that with no delay. I guess her reasoning what that with Combat, all I would want would be Johnny Eagle *toy* guns. Real havoc would ensue once I had a sling shot. I guess jeeps and sling shots really won the war.

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Post #: 64

- 10/30/2000 7:07:00 PM

Fabs

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quote:

Originally posted by Don: Fabs, check out http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/002716.html There's a million of these things at the linked website! Don

Thanks, Don. Having lots of fun with it!

------------------ Fabs

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Post #: 65

- 10/30/2000 7:35:00 PM

Kluckenbill

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I too was an avid "Combat" fan during my misspent youth. I haven't watched it in years, but something about the plots has always struck me as odd. Sgt Saunders squad never seemed to act as part of a larger organization. Mostly they went out on patrols (that might be fun to recreate in SPWAW) or engaged other equally small German units. Didn't these guys ever attack as part of a batallion or form part of a defensive position with other units on their flanks? On a positive note, at least (in my recollection) the Germans weren't always portrayed as bufoons and the GI's didn't easily win in the face of overwhelming odds. ------------------ Target, Cease Fire !

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Post #: 66

- 10/31/2000 4:24:00 AM

Rickenbacker

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quote:

Originally posted by Panzerjaeger Hortlund: When I first saw SPR it hit me like a ton of bricks, suddenly I realized what it must be like, and it scared the **** out of me.

Same here, I spent a year in the army, like most everyone here in Sweden, and even though i was basically just a REMF we we did get basic combat training, so I did my share of mad charges up hills etc. When I watched SPR for the first time (went to see it in the theater on my own, bad decision

it scared the crap out of me, since it "filled in the blanks" from those excercises I guess, showing me how it might have been if it'd been real. As far as bad war movies go... the only bad one I've really seen I can't remember the name of, but it was a squad or so of American infantry working their way through Italy. I fell asleep halfway through, but I don't think I missed anything. ------------------ Mats 'Rickenbacker' Nylund -------------------------- rickenbacker@innocent.com

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Post #: 67

- 10/31/2000 9:26:00 PM

Fabs

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kluckenbill said: "Sgt Saunders squad never seemed to act as part of a larger organization. Mostly they went out on patrols (that might be fun to recreate in SPWAW) or engaged other equally small German units. Didn't these guys ever attack as part of a batallion or form part of a defensive position with other units on their flanks?" The reason for this is that to dramatize war on screen you can only work with small groups of men, and patrol actions are easier (and cheaper) to film. Almost every war movie I know homes in on a small unit. It would otherwise come across as too impersonal. ------------------ Fabs

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Post #: 68

- 11/2/2000 5:30:00 AM

MikeM

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The best satire of war was Kellys Heroes. Towards the end, Donald Sutherland sitting in a lawn chair, his tank broken down. Clint says to him "What are you doin?". Sutherland says "Drinking some wine, eating some cheese, catching some rays". Clint says "Go help him fix it". Sutherland "Hey man, I don't fix em, I just drive em". LOL Remember don't have any of those "Negative waves man" MikeM

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Post #: 69

- 11/3/2000 4:01:00 AM

Grumble

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Don't remember the title but there was a TV movie with a guy in P40 (with a 20mm gun)who did an emergency landing, couldn't take again, so he taxiis around chasing a "German" tank "fine German Panther" across the desert. I'm not kidding. Forgot: Honorable Mention: Iron Eagle etal. Always good for a laugh in any squadron I've been in...

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Post #: 70

- 11/3/2000 5:50:00 AM

Mr.Ed

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*SNORE* The Thin Red Line *SNORE*

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Post #: 71

- 11/3/2000 2:32:00 PM

Don

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Originally posted by Grumble: Don't remember the title but there was a TV movie with a guy in P40 (with a 20mm gun)who did an emergency landing, couldn't take again, so he taxiis around chasing a "German" tank "fine German Panther" across the desert. _____________________________________________ I've seen that one! Luckily it was so long ago that I can't remember anything else about it!LOL Don

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Post #: 72

- 11/3/2000 4:35:00 PM

baranek

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for the good ones: anyone knows "ardennen 44" (its the title in german though) - b/w movie with jack palance...recreates the atmosphere very well imo. for wwI of course: "all quiet on the western front" - though made in the 1930s its a brilliant movie (and an even more brilliant book by erich maria remarque) - the remake in the 70s never came near it; and there is one russian movie "come and see" from the 80s; its not a war movie (there is no actual fighting) - the story is: a boy joins the partisans, his village gets wiped out, period. recreating the atmosphere very very dense...there isnt much talking - it uses mainly pictures...makes you feel very depressed. i have seen it 10 years ago or so...still can remember almost every scene.

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Post #: 73

- 11/3/2000 5:51:00 PM

Holunder

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I have to defend 'The thin red line' a bit. There was one scene which was very very realistic: two soldiers are sent out to do some recon on that hill. They leave their cover and you hear nothing but the wind and their equipment making some noise. Then they reach the first open position, and it is "bum, bum" and you only hear the wind again. I thought that was very impressive, maybe even more the truth than the opening of SPR. Besides that, I agree with most comments made before. My nomination for the worst war movie of the year is U-571 though. I saw it together with my cousin who is a navy officer. First we laughed, but then the movie became insulting. It is pure crap and if I ever meet the director I will spit in his face. (just one example: of course the americans conquer the sub and of course they know the locations better than the original crew, who dont put up an ambush, etc, of course german destroyers have 2 gun turrets, bla bla bla) As a german I am fed up with how my ancestors are shown. Of course, Hollywood needs an enemy, but seemingly they never even thought about that the american glory would be even bigger if they would win against the real germans of ww2. In most cases though, the americans won by quantity of material and not because of their better tactics. Most of my teachers served in the wehrmacht and they all told the same story of american tactics: recon - call in the arty/air force. That it is only SS troops in SPR must be because they needed some clear, hateable enemy for the audience. The SS is an icon and it means THE EVIL. Btw, the shooting of germans with hands up is a war crime (beach scene), and the only way it is reflected in the movie is, when the guy who is spared (mg nest scene)turns out to be an ss man who gets sexually aroused from killing gi's with a knife. Of course, he is killed in the end and the audience loves it. IMHO Spielberg hates the germans and his hate is so deep that he becomes unfair. War sets free the worst and the best sides of men. In every country. Thats what I think. Greets, Holunder

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Post #: 74

- 11/3/2000 6:26:00 PM

Peregrine Falcon

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quote:

Originally posted by Holunder: I have to defend 'The thin red line' a bit. There was one scene which was very very realistic: two soldiers are sent out to do some recon on that hill. They leave their cover and you hear nothing but the wind and their equipment making some noise. Then they reach the first open position, and it is "bum, bum" and you only hear the wind again. I thought that was very impressive, maybe even more the truth than the opening of SPR. Greets, Holunder

I agree. That moment in Thin Red Line was really something. To see those gunflashes from the bushes and then soldiers are down.... Beautifully done scene. Simple - but effective.

I agree also what you said about SPR. It's sad that Spielberg takes that attitude towards Germans..

U-571?? -No Comments- Compared to this c..p movie - even SPR is one big (but lousy) masterpiece... I haven't seen U-571 - and I never will.

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Post #: 75

- 11/3/2000 7:39:00 PM

mogami

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The P-40 and Tank movie was Doug McClure as the P-40 pilot and Llyod Bridges as the German also as a german was the Capt from Rat Patrol but the tank was chasing the P-40 most of the movie, when the germans shot an american trying to surrender McClure got mad and turn his P-40 on the tank and Killed Bridges. The the rest of the Germans surrendered to the P-40 I do not remember the name of this stink bomb but it was a piece of art when compared to "Zero" if everyone here would go waste a dollar to rent "Zero" this discussion about all time loser war movie would be over. ------------------ I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction!

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Post #: 76

- 11/3/2000 11:09:00 PM

Bondy

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quote:

Originally posted by Mogami: The P-40 and Tank movie was Doug McClure as the P-40 pilot and Llyod Bridges as the German also as a german was the Capt from Rat Patrol but the tank was chasing the P-40 most of the movie, when the germans shot an american trying to surrender McClure got mad and turn his P-40 on the tank and Killed Bridges. The the rest of the Germans surrendered to the P-40 I do not remember the name of this stink bomb but it was a piece of art when compared to "Zero" if everyone here would go waste a dollar to rent "Zero" this discussion about all time loser war movie would be over.

The movie was "Death Race" and was made in 1973. I actually enjoyed it, a psyhological drama about the hunter and hunted. Lloyd Bridges as a very evil Afrika Korps tank commander - think it was a Stuart, I guess it was captured. Nice P-40 aircraft! The plane was shot up so it couldn't take off, and Doug McClure and another downed pilot try to surrender, but Bridges as the ardent Nazi decides they cannot take prisoners and shoots at them instead. His crew are tired of the war and hate his guts. Caine Mutiny in a tank!

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Post #: 77

- 11/3/2000 11:17:00 PM

Bondy

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quote:

Originally posted by Panzerjaeger Hortlund: Ok, now I got curious. Please tell us something more about that movie..the last panzer.

I have it too, the original video release before Troma purchased the rights. It was made in 1968, it was an Italian film about a German tank behind enemy lines in France 1944. The tank commander is in love with this French girl, but I believe she betrays him. It's not actually the last panzer at all, it's another M47 Patton I think. Very slow moving, with horrible acting and script. A Walmart $1.99 shelfer for sure!

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Post #: 78

- 11/4/2000 11:09:00 AM

troopie

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Mogami, you imagined 'Zero'. It does not exist. And there was a 'Dirty Dozen' type flick with German prisoners. They were in an SS penal detachment. Anyone remember the name of this stinker? troopie ------------------ Pamwe Chete

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Post #: 79

- 11/5/2000 9:13:00 PM

MECH ENGINEER

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So many so little room. I agree with the good ones Cross of Iron, Stalingrad, SPR. One that was not mentioned was The Beast, it was about the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. I thought it was pretty decent. What really frosted my butt about the Thin Red Line was that First Sergeant(Sean Penn), every time I saw him he was sitting on his butt. Being a former 1SG, I have worn out many pairs of boots, but never the bottoms off my BDU's. That, plus the continous pontification.

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Post #: 80

- 11/6/2000 4:16:00 PM

Weasel

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quote:

Originally posted by Nikademus: **U-571** complete with manditory Germans massacering defenceless civilians scene. one word review after being dragged to see it. "ACK"

Yep. It was full of BS. Explosions and other effects were quite OK, but all the historic events and facts were... well Hollywood took the credit about Enigma cryptograph (I don�t know what the machine was actually called) from the heroic brits. Shame, because the topic was well picked (there are just few good submarine warmovies). Another nominees are all the Chuck Norris Vietnam-films. Jeez, do viewers really think that special forces officers had beards and long hair? LOL.

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Post #: 81

- 11/6/2000 4:43:00 PM

Lars Remmen

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quote:

Originally posted by troopie: Mogami, you imagined 'Zero'. It does not exist. And there was a 'Dirty Dozen' type flick with German prisoners. They were in an SS penal detachment. Anyone remember the name of this stinker? troopie

I don't remember the English title but I guess you are referring to 'D�den p� larvef�dder' by Sven Hassel. His books are purely fiction. If I remember correctly, he was a Gestapo informant in Copenhagen during the war. Did some time i prison after the war I think and then wrote the books. The first book, I forgot the title, was VERY close to 'All quiet on the Western Front' by Remarque. ------------------ Lars Nec Temere - Nec Timide [This message has been edited by Lars Remmen (edited November 06, 2000).]

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Post #: 82

- 11/7/2000 7:28:00 AM

BruceAZ

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Worst has to be "The Battle of the Buldge." The thing about the cake sure makes me laugh...

quote:

Originally posted by Recon: Well, we've seen plenty of what we like but how about what we hate? I nominate The Thin Red Line. Never before have I seen such overbearing, pretencious drivel. If you like being hit over the head with obvious and tedious moralising and slow motion art house sequences then this is the film for you. On the other hand, the Japanese machine gun looked authentic.

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Post #: 83

- 11/7/2000 7:46:00 AM

mogami

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ok here it is guys www.stomptokyo.com movies zero there is a full review of this movie with pictures and everything made by the makers of Godzilla. You can even buy this movie here is you want but if you want to die laughing just read this full page review. And then you will know "Zero" is the all time Stink bomb rotten war movie. ------------------ I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction! [This message has been edited by Mogami (edited November 07, 2000).]

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Post #: 84

- 11/7/2000 3:43:00 PM

Gregi

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quote:

Originally posted by Weasel: (on U 571) Yep. It was full of BS. Explosions and other effects were quite OK, but all the historic events and facts were... well Hollywood took the credit about Enigma cryptograph (I don�t know what the machine was actually called) from the heroic brits. Shame, because the topic was well picked (there are just few good submarine warmovies).

Capturing of Naval Enigma model was AFAIR an all-american success (U-505 was the first) - but breaking the early Enigma codes and putting into British hands almost complete codebreaking technology was possible due to Polish cryptologists. Later the Bletchley Park institution proved what they were worth of, breaking all new German code modification. Naval Enigma, however, was too much different from the model Brits were familiar with. They were in desperate need to get one. And the did. The movie U571 is much too filled up with various war events, which rather shouldn't happened in so short period of time. That's why - despite it's visual quality -it seems extremely unrealistic. The other things are various logical errors like German one-engine (!) patrol plane, German surface ship alone in Atlantic (!! brave men these Germans!) - IIRC called 'destroyer' while it looked rather like port tug painted grey. There were many such strange details, making U571 excellent Hollywood movie, but a poor war one. Pozdrawiam Greg

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- 11/7/2000 9:20:00 PM

Kluckenbill

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I visited Mogami's link and it had a review of one of my favorite war movies, Zulu Dawn. This movie depicts colonial battles very realistically and it also is pretty historically accurate. And the good guys even won. ------------------ Target, Cease Fire !

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- 11/11/2000 4:44:00 AM

MikeM

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This is in regards to a comment from Holunder "By the way Americans shooting German prisoners with their hands up (beach scene) in SPR is a war crime. By the way the shooting of unarmed American prisoners at Malmedy in the Battle of the Bulge by "Battle Group Peiper", was a war crime also. So much for your heroic ancestors.

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Post #: 87

- 11/11/2000 11:38:00 AM

troopie

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quote:

Originally posted by Kluckenbill: I visited Mogami's link and it had a review of one of my favorite war movies, Zulu Dawn. This movie depicts colonial battles very realistically and it also is pretty historically accurate. And the good guys even won.

"Zulu" was on AMC the other night. It's a fairly realistic depiction of the battle of Rorke's Drift, except for the Boer Scout. I've seen a complete list of all civilian and military personnel at Rorke's Drift, and there were no Boers. Their scouts were Irish. troopie ------------------ Pamwe Chete

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- 11/11/2000 1:39:00 PM

Kangshen

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There is a weird Spanish movie called "Battle of the Last Panzer". Its supposed to be about a German Tank Crew in the Normandy Fighting. The Tank is an M-47 (what else) But the German Uniforms are only vaguely germanic, while the US troops even seem to be wearing modern Spanish kit, except the helmets - The US Helmets look like flattened out Fallschirmjager issue!!(maybe they ARE Spanish?). For a change, the French peasants are cheering the Germans, while at various points in the movie, the crew includes a buxom blonde French Girl. Yeah........well..

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Post #: 89

- 11/12/2000 12:07:00 AM

GrinningDwarf

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quote:

Originally posted by Mogami: Has no one who vists matrix boards never seen movie "Zero"? Was it my misfortune to be the only one subjected to the horror?

Sorry. You didn't imagine it. I was subjected to it myself. In fact, I subjected myself to it!! I thought the funniest scene was the American AVG pilot. This guy was a cross between Gomer Pyle and Gene Autry. Once I figured out I was looking at a Japanese stereotype of an American, I thought it was hilarious. (I'd always been taught that only Americans were guilty of stereotyping. At least, that's what my public school teachers tried to indoctrinate me with.)

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Post #: 90