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RE: Weather - 4/13/2008 6:26:42 PM   
warspite1


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The German VI INF Corps for example near the Polish coridor is only in supply from Von Bock, as there are no German cities near enough to provide supply in northeast Germany. The VI INF Corps is 4 hexes from Stettin and Breslau.

quote:

Warspite1 - Patrice why doesn`t Kolberg count as a supply source for the VI Inf Corps?

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 241
RE: Weather - 4/13/2008 7:17:43 PM   
warspite1


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Status: offline 		Sorry everyone I think I`ve just answered my own question - a port is not necessarily a city right?

I have not played WIF since the new maps came out but no longer have my old style maps - so can anyone tell me, was this rule the same with the the old style maps or is this new?

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 242
RE: Weather - 4/13/2008 8:07:22 PM   
Froonp


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Sorry everyone I think I`ve just answered my own question - a port is not necessarily a city right?

I have not played WIF since the new maps came out but no longer have my old style maps - so can anyone tell me, was this rule the same with the the old style maps or is this new?

I don't remember how it was in WiF previous to WiF FE, so I can't help here.

Anyway in WiF FE, WiF cities are represented on the map by yellow dots. Ports are cetainly real world cities too, but not in the WiF FE sense. Kolberg for example don't have the city status, and thus is not a supply source. But it can be a point of entry for supply from the sea.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 243
RE: Weather - 4/13/2008 9:03:30 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
A couple more new pages.

Also, you say that the Panzerarmee in the flyout can only traverse 3 Blizzard hexes. I would specify 3 clear terrain Blizzard hexes.

Well now, if you want to get to that level of detail, the statement as written is correct. But only because the first two hexes will always be clear hexes so the extra cost for the 3rd hex doesn't prevent the movement, but does disorganize the moving units.

Really, I do not want to get down to this level of detail in the tutorials. Saying that the bad weather doubles the terrain cost of each hex entered is a precise statement of the rule. Other nuances of implementing the rule are beyond the scope of what I want this tutorial to do.

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 244
RE: Weather - 4/13/2008 9:11:20 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
A couple more new pages.




In this one you say "All the units are in supply because the cities in their home countries are primary supply sources."
This is true for all the Polish units, but not for all the Germans ones. The German VI INF Corps for example near the Polish coridor is only in supply from Von Bock, as there are no German cities near enough to provide supply in northeast Germany. The VI INF Corps is 4 hexes from Stettin and Breslau.

Also, the German stack in SW East Prussia, under the Bf 109E-3 next to Rundstedt, is only in supply from Rundstedt too, as the absence of German land units in the hex SE of Konigsberg (the Ju 87B here is alone) forbids them to trace through it, so they happen to be 4 hexes from Konigsberg.

This is said to stress the fact that units are not always in supply inside their home country, especially in bad weather, and this idea of easy supply at home should not be given to players. It is easier, but you should be carefull too.

I'll stay with the text as written.

I did not say that each unit could trace a basic path to a primary supply source (a city in its home country). Yes, that is an easy assumption to make, given what I have written. But it is an assumption by the reader, not by the author.

The German 7-3 could also trace supply through the nearby port, but then we would have to get into which optional rules are in effect and which units are in the Allied sea boxes in the Baltic. All of this is appropriate for a tutorial on tracing supply lines, and it is covered in exquisite detail there (tutorial #10).

Here I am thinking of the comment about supply be more or less a tease about the supply rules. I do this often in the tutorials, where reference is made to something that has not been discussed in detail yet - but will be in a following tutorial. This is intentional on my part. And it is pretty much unavoidable given how heavily the different rules interact with each other. To discuss A you have to understand B, which requires understanding C, which requires understanding A.

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(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 245
RE: Weather - 4/13/2008 9:13:40 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

just noticed the 'Storm' overlay at sea - Nice!

the hex fly-out looks good too, first one I've seen I think

Thanks. There are a lot more examples in the Interface thread (I believe).

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Steve

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(in reply to brian brian)
Post #: 246
RE: Weather - 4/13/2008 9:25:33 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stabilo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stabilo


"Rain reduces land attack odds by 1 (6:1 becomes 5:1); Snow by 2 and Blizzard by 3."

This is only true if you play with 1d10. Do you explain the difference with 2d10 in the options tutorial?

This is true for both 1D10 and 2D10 land combat results tables.

Or is your comment about my choice of 6:1 to 5:1 where there is no 6:1 on the 1D10 CRT Assault table?

Would saying 5:1 goes to 4:1 fix the problem?



Well the effect is true in both cases but the rules work different: on the 1d10 it's really the odd that changes but on the 2d10 these modifications are not tied together. This becomes important when you have the effects of winterized units.

Do you explain the 2d10 optional rule in detail elsewhere?

Optional rules are mentioned from time to time in the tutorials but there isn't an entire tutorial devoted to any one or group of them. When starting a new game all 81 optional rules are listed and by right clicking on an optional rule a detailed description of the rule is displayed. here is the one for 2D10.




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Steve

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(in reply to Stabilo)
Post #: 247
RE: Weather - 4/13/2008 9:28:42 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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Status: offline 		The other source of info on the 2D10 table is in RAC (Rules as Coded) at the very end of the document - similar to where it is shown in RAW. RAC devotes 2 pages to it. Here is page 1. The changes I amde in layout from RAW was quite controversial, but this is what is looks like after the dust had settled.




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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 248
RE: Weather - 4/13/2008 9:30:07 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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Status: offline 		3rd and final page in a series of 3.

This is the second page of the 2D10 from RAC.




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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 249
RE: Weather - 4/14/2008 7:52:45 AM   
Stabilo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets



Optional rules are mentioned from time to time in the tutorials but there isn't an entire tutorial devoted to any one or group of them. When starting a new game all 81 optional rules are listed and by right clicking on an optional rule a detailed description of the rule is displayed. here is the one for 2D10.





Great! With this fine explenation of the 2d10 optional rule the weather tutorial seems to have the right depth.

< Message edited by Stabilo -- 4/15/2008 7:51:36 AM >

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 250
RE: Weather - 4/14/2008 5:40:02 PM   
composer99


Posts: 2923
Joined: 6/6/2005
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Status: offline 		Keep in mind that the 2d10 chart and motorized movement rates (which affects the movement of ARM units through non-clear terrain) are both optional rules and, strictly speaking need not be mentioned in introductory tutorials.

Edit: I don't want to seem ogre-ish, or anything. As we all know, though, WiF is a big, complicated game, and we don't want to overwhelm new players with minutiae all in one go. We want to dip them in slowly, like the frog in the pot of water that is gradually brought to boil, so we can grind their bones to make our bread.

< Message edited by composer99 -- 4/14/2008 5:52:44 PM >

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Post #: 251
RE: Weather - 4/14/2008 11:53:36 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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Status: offline 		The last 2 pages of the Weather tutorial. Thanks to Patrice for the graphics.




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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 252
RE: Weather - 4/14/2008 11:59:07 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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At this point all 110+ pages of the introductory tutorials are done except for 1 or 2 for setting up NetPlay. Whew! It has been a long haul to gets these finished.

I thank you all for your help in straightening out errors, ambiguiities, confusion, and the like in these. And special thanks to Patrice for the graphics work he has done in capturing screen shots and creating innovative visual presentations of information - over 95% of the tutorial graphics were done by him.




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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 253
RE: Weather - 4/15/2008 1:47:24 AM   
Froonp


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Status: offline 		And thanks Steve for the texts, and for most of the arangement of ideas and concepts on the tutorials too.

And you wrote "Temerate" instead of "Temperate" in page 10 .

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 254
RE: Weather - 4/15/2008 1:54:21 AM   
Froonp


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From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline 		About the general duration of each turn, here is the result of the statistics I maintain about all the game I was in (15-20).

"Moy" and "Moyenne" is Average.

The longest J/A turn I saw was 15 impulses long, 8 Axis and 7 Allied.
The average number of impulse played in J/A were 4,7 by each side.

An important thing to remember when playing to is to remember that the side who plays first in a turn will quite often play 1 more impulse than the other side, which is a tremendous advantage.




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Post #: 255
RE: Weather - 4/15/2008 8:01:21 AM   
brian brian

 

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Status: offline 		are the numbers on that last tutorial page on each world map actually supposed to be 1-12 ?


I think there will now be a very easy answer to the question ... 'So how do I learn to play this game?'

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Post #: 256
RE: Weather - 4/15/2008 9:32:06 AM   
bredsjomagnus

 

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Status: offline 		Its difficult to see the stars under the impuls numbers. Another color would be nice.


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Post #: 257
RE: Weather - 4/15/2008 10:44:41 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bredsjomagnus

Its difficult to see the stars under the impuls numbers. Another color would be nice.



Perhaps white when it is against a dark background and black against a light background.

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 258
RE: Weather - 4/15/2008 11:24:24 AM   
bredsjomagnus

 

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Status: offline 		Exactly. That would probably do it.

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Post #: 259
RE: Weather - 4/15/2008 11:53:46 AM   
Froonp


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: bredsjomagnus

Its difficult to see the stars under the impuls numbers. Another color would be nice.



Perhaps white when it is against a dark background and black against a light background.

I had thought of red too.
And maybe larger.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 260
RE: Weather - 4/15/2008 12:42:55 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: bredsjomagnus

Its difficult to see the stars under the impuls numbers. Another color would be nice.



Perhaps white when it is against a dark background and black against a light background.

I had thought of red too.
And maybe larger.

Black and white are better because some players have trouble seeing red, especially against a greenish background. Larger would be better.

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 261
RE: Weather - 4/15/2008 10:55:41 PM   
Plainian

 

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Status: offline 		Put the advancement circles bottom right, make them a bit bigger and slap the stars in the circles as well. Shouldn't hide any important part of the map. Just a suggestion. Fiddling around with the colours of the stars where they are also good for me.

By the way shouldn't the stars have an explaination of what they are before we get to the example bit?

Ian the tetchy Scot.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 262
RE: Weather - 4/15/2008 11:35:34 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Plain Ian

Put the advancement circles bottom right, make them a bit bigger and slap the stars in the circles as well. Shouldn't hide any important part of the map. Just a suggestion. Fiddling around with the colours of the stars where they are also good for me.

By the way shouldn't the stars have an explaination of what they are before we get to the example bit?

Ian the tetchy Scot.

The stars (and other stuff) are described on page 1 of this tutorial. By the time we get to pages 9 and 10, it should be review.

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Post #: 263
RE: Weather - 4/16/2008 12:23:03 AM   
Plainian

 

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From: Dundee in Scotland
Status: offline 		Ooops sorry for sidetracking the issue. Ignore my havering. Go with Plan B changing the colours of the stars.

By the way Patrice I wasn't that annoyed about how Scotland is shown on WIFFE. Great work on the graphics.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 264
RE: Weather - 6/2/2009 12:34:45 PM   
Caquineur


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Into every life a little rain must fall...

Hi,

Coud someone help me about the impulse track and the weather chart ? I'd like to do a little study on the weather probabilities and I'm wondering if the chart I'm using is the right one

The rules say in chapter 8 : "Example: In the 1st impulse of a July/Aug turn, you roll an 8. The weather roll in the last impulse of the May/Jun turn was 1, which has 2 asterisks. Therefore, you add 2 to your die roll, for a modified result of 10. The weather in the northern monsoon zone is storm. The weather is fine in all the other zones. You have an asterisk as well, which will modify the next weather roll by +1."

In the chart I have, it's supposed to rain in the arctic, so I'm wondering if this chart is correct : I've taken it from the latest Vassal module for Wif (there is a link to it, with comments and explanations, on Patrice's WIF web site)

As for the impulse track, I suppose it's okay : the number to roll to end the turn is always the impulse number on the track minus six, and NA for the first four impulse numbers

Coud someone please verify this and/or send me a copy of the latest weather chart ? (provided it doesn't infringe on copyright, of course)

Alain

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 265
RE: Weather - 6/2/2009 1:50:56 PM   
Greywolf

 

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Status: offline 		On the page 7 of 10 of the tutorial :

There is 2 stukas on the picture, even if you specificate wich one you are talking about I think it could be confusing, perhaps better to remove one of the two ?

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Post #: 266
RE: Weather - 6/2/2009 1:59:27 PM   
Greywolf

 

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Status: offline 		About the weather map, the different kind of weather are hard to tell appart : Storm / Snow and in some way Blizzard and Rain.

The stars are nearly invisible. And the weather legend should be near each month name or only once at top, in the middle with all the colors on the picture it is hard to saw.

Also thoses pages 9-10 tutorial should point right from the start that a D10 is rolled for weather, could be confusing to see 12 images otherwise...

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Post #: 267
RE: Weather - 6/2/2009 2:06:09 PM   
Froonp


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Caquineur
Coud someone help me about the impulse track and the weather chart ? I'd like to do a little study on the weather probabilities and I'm wondering if the chart I'm using is the right one

The rules say in chapter 8 : "Example: In the 1st impulse of a July/Aug turn, you roll an 8. The weather roll in the last impulse of the May/Jun turn was 1, which has 2 asterisks. Therefore, you add 2 to your die roll, for a modified result of 10. The weather in the northern monsoon zone is storm. The weather is fine in all the other zones. You have an asterisk as well, which will modify the next weather roll by +1."

In the chart I have, it's supposed to rain in the arctic, so I'm wondering if this chart is correct : I've taken it from the latest Vassal module for Wif (there is a link to it, with comments and explanations, on Patrice's WIF web site)

As for the impulse track, I suppose it's okay : the number to roll to end the turn is always the impulse number on the track minus six, and NA for the first four impulse numbers

Coud someone please verify this and/or send me a copy of the latest weather chart ? (provided it doesn't infringe on copyright, of course)

Alain

The latest charts are copyrighted 2000. You may have a 1997 or a 1996 one, which is not current.

Also, the latest WiF FE Vassal module (version 6.21) have the correct charts. Which version are you using ? It is probably outdated too.

Latest (2000) weather chart :




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< Message edited by Froonp -- 6/2/2009 2:07:19 PM >

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Post #: 268
RE: Weather - 6/2/2009 2:11:01 PM   
Froonp


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Caquineur
Coud someone help me about the impulse track and the weather chart ? I'd like to do a little study on the weather probabilities and I'm wondering if the chart I'm using is the right one

The rules say in chapter 8 : "Example: In the 1st impulse of a July/Aug turn, you roll an 8. The weather roll in the last impulse of the May/Jun turn was 1, which has 2 asterisks. Therefore, you add 2 to your die roll, for a modified result of 10. The weather in the northern monsoon zone is storm. The weather is fine in all the other zones. You have an asterisk as well, which will modify the next weather roll by +1."

In the chart I have, it's supposed to rain in the arctic, so I'm wondering if this chart is correct : I've taken it from the latest Vassal module for Wif (there is a link to it, with comments and explanations, on Patrice's WIF web site)

As for the impulse track, I suppose it's okay : the number to roll to end the turn is always the impulse number on the track minus six, and NA for the first four impulse numbers

Coud someone please verify this and/or send me a copy of the latest weather chart ? (provided it doesn't infringe on copyright, of course)

Alain

Here is the latest (2003) impulse track.

I'm interested in your study on the weather probabilities, and I hope you'll publish the results somewhere.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 269
RE: Weather - 6/2/2009 3:03:47 PM   
Caquineur


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
The latest charts are copyrighted 2000. You may have a 1997 or a 1996 one, which is not current.
Also, the latest WiF FE Vassal module (version 6.21) have the correct charts. Which version are you using ? It is probably outdated too...

Thank you very much !

I did download version 6.21 module, but (IIRC) there were two files in the module (that I upzipped without using Vassal) : one GIF and one JPG - I kept only the GIF one, so I guess the good one was the JPG. There is no version indicated on the file I have.

So now it's really fine weather in the Arctic

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 270
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