Prince of Eckmühl
Posts: 2459
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SamuraiProgrammer
Please take this post as it is intended... an open discussion of the benefits vs constraints of hex based wargames on personal computers.
Yup, that's why they call it a discussion forum. Who wants to preach to the choir, excepting someone who's finds validation in chanting the local dogma?
Let's take a look at these points of yours regarding hotseat play:
quote:
No Lighting Problems 
Actually "lighting" is a pretty serious issue with computer games, as excessive focus on a monitor can lead to neurological problems. A friend of mine who used to code for Warbirds was forced into disability retirement because of monitor-related seizures that he began to experience.
But, my real issue with wargame GUI is real estate, or lack thereof. I want to see the whole map, and I don't want to mouse around to do so. This can be partially remedied with a big-honking monitor, and half-dozen, or so, zoom levels, but this typically requires additional art. And you know how loathe developers are to suffer the additional cost.
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No Kids, Cats, Dogs, etc. jostling counters 
Honestly, now, have you never had the experience of a pet, usually a cat, strolling across your keyboard, incidentally depressing a key or keys while doing so, and nuking your progress in a game?
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No need for a special cabinet, closed room, or sacred area when ending a playing session
About three decades ago, I made my last territorial demand of my wife. That of course was my war-room. Today, the sacred area also houses my collection of computers. While they are equally sacred to my boardgames, they are no less vulnerable to the unintended vandalism of cats, dogs and other ostensibly rug-bound mammals.
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No more frantic 'HONEY, HAVE YOU SEEN MY GAMING TWEEZERS? THEY WERE RIGHT HERE LAST WEEK' 
The above suggests that you've never shared your gaming PC with a spouse. Lucky man. 
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No making sure the dining room table will be available for 12 hours on Saturday
Construction of the sort of facility that I make reference to, several points up your list, runs about $100 per square foot, complete with water closet. No wargamer should be without one, and your family can have the table back. This sort of arrangement has saved more than one marriage, and perhaps a life or two.
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No concerns about stack strength if your opponent adds faster than you can (or even faster than they can
No counting out loud slowly when figuring stack strength if your opponent counts slower than you do 
Ability to have multiple games with multiple opponents concurrently
Fewer disputes about rules ... the computer is the final arbiter
No accidentally using the same unit in multiple attacks.
No forgetting weather modifiers
No forgetting other modifiers
No wondering if randomly drawing good counters is coincidence or enemy action
No angst over concern that your lucky draws are being considered possible enemy action
No wondering if your opponent's 'lucky' die should have an 'accident' 
No 'accidentally' bumping the table and getting better attack opportunities as no one is really quite sure which hex that short range bomber was in
No more finding the 'Yamato' under the couch and realizing why you have not won a single naval engagement
I'm gonna lump the rest of the items above into an unbrella category, call it "stuff that can go wrong, accidentally, or otherwise."
While I readily acknowledge your concerns in each and every instance, I have to remind you that stuff can go wrong in a hotseat situation as well. A careless key stroke, a beverage spilled on a keyboard or down the front of a computer case, or something as commonplace as a power outage, all of which can spell finis for your night's gaming.
And who can deny that the PC is a constant headache for many, many wargamers. The loss of a hard-drive or other component, or software related issues, spyware for instance, can be as genuinely vexing to your average grog as anything that you cite above.
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Benefits of playing Net Play using some kind of voice over IP application (such as Team Speak)
- No travel time ... more play time
- Makes it more convenient to play for that 1 hour you can both overlap between other obligations
- You can still hear your opponent squeal, grumble, curse as you make the killing move.
- Still quite a bit of social contact
- You don't have to buy chips and drinks for everyone
- You can play against the opponent with no social graces (or hygiene) that your wife does not want in her house and whose house you do not want to go to
- You can play with anyone in the world.
I can't take issue with any of the points above. I'd just PREFER to do it in person, IF AT ALL POSSIBLE. Barring that possibility, folks who want to play this style of game are going to benefit from a computer and internet connection.
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Benefits of playing PBEM over and above NetPlay
- You can play your turn when it suits you
- More opportunities to ponder your next move during your daily work commute
- Better play as you have much less time pressure to finish your move 'so we can get this turn done before I have to go'
- In the case where you can only arrange to meet rarely, you *may* actually make more game progress in any given month
Once again, your thoughts in all these regards appear sound. I'd note that several posters in this thread have made it apparent that they don't have time for pre-scheduled, extended gaming sessions. Assuming that they don't know any WiF players locally, its about their only option for human vs human play.
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Benefits of playing AI (even if the AI is not going to win at WIFCON)
- Work on your counter strategies... seeing the AI react will either teach you what to do or what not to do
- Work on your strategies to pull off a large scale invasion (land or sea)
- Get more familiar with the timing needed to to accomplish long term preparations (This can be a multi year process)
- When someone accuses you of masturbation, you can say 'Yes, but only intellectually' (ITS A JOKE!)
- New players can, at least, play in the shallow end of the pool until they feel comfortable playing with the experienced players --- No one likes getting their A$$ kicked and not have any idea why after the fact.
An AI opponent can prove to be a worthwhile tutor of sorts in learning the game. However, assuming that the human player actually knows and understands "the rules" under which software operates, and that the software is itself sound in that regard, then there's no reason that one can't play with himself, hotseat, your reference to solitary vice, duly noted.
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There are clearly downsides to everything.
These, I feel, are some compelling reasons to want this product even if you have never enjoyed playing a hex based computer wargame.
This is why I am looking forward to this game.
Thoughts??
I'm thinking that the success or failure of WiF is dependent on the degree to which it's embraced by people who are familiar with the boardgame. If it's faithful to its antecedent, it'll likely do okay. If it fails in that regard, I'm afraid that it'll prove to be one monumental waste of time on some poor unfortunate's part, regardless of one's mode of play, or the relative quality of its AI.
Thanks for asking,
PoE (aka ivanmoe)
< Message edited by Prince of Eckmühl -- 6/9/2009 1:17:41 AM >
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