Anthropoid
Posts: 3107
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Secret Underground Lair
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro
I copied these from another thread. I am not sure if these are required-I 'll go with what the veterans say. I'm more interested in just getting it going at this point.
Franck's house rule:
When a war ends between 2 major nations
(A)Unless the capital of a specific protectorate has been captured all of that protectorate's provinces that were originaly (pre-war) controlled by a player should be ceded back to the original (pre-war) onwner
(B) In the case where a major nations control the capital of a protectorate, the player who conquered the capital gets to keep all provinces that belonged to that protectorate. The player must still cede back any protectorate's provinces for which the protectorate's capital was not conquered!
exemple:
France and Austrian's Italian war:
France took control of the capital of Ventia, Naples and Papal States. By this rule he gets to keep all of the provinces he took there. If France had failed to take the capital of Naples before I surrendered he would have had to give me back all of the provinces he took from Naples. (ie: this is why I barricaded almost all of Naples armed force inside Naples. Hoping for a settlement before France could breach Naples.)
Sweden and the coalition's war:
Sweden took Copenhague. Since this is the capital of Danemark Sweden gets to keep that province after the war (If no one claims it with surrender points). If Sweden at taken control of any other Danish provinces he could also keep them.)
As far as I know this is how "conquering" of provinces works. I'll use my recent single player experience as Russia as an example. It was summer 1798, everybody was alarmed at Austria. I had early on declared war on Poland and absorbed about one-third her provinces, but then she (Poland) became an Austrian protectorate. About a year later, we all declared war on Austria. I start gobbling up Austria's Polish provinces, the ones that are on my border (Lodomeria, Courland, Kovno, etc.), in total about 6 of them. Finally she surrenders with about 9850 surrender points. I get the popup asking if I want to strategic move out of Austrian territory, and move everything back to Podolia so I don't get hit with a glory penalty or violating neutrality.
All of the Polish protectorate provinces automatically go back into Austrian hands. I then get my chance to draw up my terms of surrender. In there, I can (and did) choose to demand ceding of all the Polish provinces (which were protectorates of Austria at the start of hostilities) which I had conquered. It is noteworthy that, in the actual Treaty screen, only the ones I took control of during the war were viable demands, the others I could not select as demands to cede. This cost me about 8500 surrender points, and the rest I made up with economic demands.
So, as it works right now, I think that this rule would only be necessary at the time that a victor draws up his/her terms of surrender. There is no need to "cede back" things that were taken, because, even when you win, it appears that nothing gets automatically "taken;" all provinces controlled by each side at the start of hostilities rever to the original master, and the if the victor wants to take control of a particular province from the loser then he/she must draw up a treaty which officially transfers control of provinces upon surrender.
Now having said all that to clarify how it seems to work, I can agree with the "general" spirit of the rules, but I don't think I agree with how they will actually play out in game play. I may be wrong here, but I suspect that this house rule may have either been based on a pre-patch dynamic, else just a misunderstanding of how conquest or provinces works in the first place?
If I understand this house rule correctly, this is the situation I would have faced in the above example of Russia at war with Austria 1798. Over that 6 or 9 month war, Russia conquered some 6 or so Polish protectorate provinces of the Austiran Empire . . . BUT, we did not take Warsaw, the capital of Poland. As such, if I am interpreting this rule correctly, we would not have been able to demand ANY of those provinces we gobbled up as spoils of war.
I don't think I like that, I don't think it would reflect reality of how territory was gained and lost in real history, and I don't think I want to play with such a house rule; though I'm certainly open to hear advocates of it explain why it would in fact be preferable in terms of being a balancer or an improver of realism.
Without the bugs in the previous model, I tend to think (hope?) that house rules will not prove to be necessary.
< Message edited by Anthropoid -- 6/14/2009 2:25:47 PM >
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