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Defencive Minefields - 6/15/2009 10:11:01 AM   
Cerix


Posts: 25
Joined: 5/30/2009
Status: offline 		How to get defensive Minefields in a Base Hex ?

< Message edited by Cerix -- 6/15/2009 12:51:03 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Defencive Minefields - 6/15/2009 10:48:47 AM   
n01487477


Posts: 4779
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline 		Defective ? I think you mean defensive ... but the process is sometimes defective

1. Have some ML's in a Mine Warfare TF.
2. Set them to Retire to another base, not the destination.
3. Make sure they have mines on board.
4. Set Destination.
5. Set Lay mines.

When they get to the destination they lay and then return to Home . I know there is a way to do this in the same hex, but I find it haphazard.





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RE: Defencive Minefields - 6/15/2009 12:55:28 PM   
Cerix


Posts: 25
Joined: 5/30/2009
Status: offline 		Ok,  what about the "defensive mines 200" that shows up when clicking on the base,  can it be effected in any way?

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RE: Defencive Minefields - 6/15/2009 1:05:20 PM   
Droop21


Posts: 115
Joined: 7/19/2002
Status: offline 		Well it can be affected in 2 ways: laying additional mines (need a port level 8 IIRC) to reload mines and having the enemy sweeping mines (will reduce it). Be aware that if you do nothing the number of mines will gradually decrease over time on its own (to simulate mines breaking their lines...)

Hope this answers your question

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RE: Defencive Minefields - 6/15/2009 1:27:49 PM   
String


Posts: 2661
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Estonia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Droop

Well it can be affected in 2 ways: laying additional mines (need a port level 8 IIRC) to reload mines and having the enemy sweeping mines (will reduce it). Be aware that if you do nothing the number of mines will gradually decrease over time on its own (to simulate mines breaking their lines...)

Hope this answers your question


You need portlevel 9 to load mines. You can lay mines in any hex though, and if you do it in a friendly port hex it becomes a defensive minefield

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RE: Defencive Minefields - 6/15/2009 1:33:05 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
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quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

Defective ? I think you mean defensive ... but the process is sometimes defective

1. Have some ML's in a Mine Warfare TF.
2. Set them to Retire to another base, not the destination.
3. Make sure they have mines on board.
4. Set Destination.
5. Set Lay mines.

When they get to the destination they lay and then return to Home . I know there is a way to do this in the same hex, but I find it haphazard.





You do NOT need to have a different port (i.e. - home port and the port you are laying mines at can be the same) under 1.806 (earlier versions did though).

You can have an MLE in a port under size 9 supply mines... you need "sufficient supplies" there, though.

Also, you need "sufficient supplies" even in a size 9 port... hard to gauge what this is, but it seems to be at least 2K supply... you can have supply in a lightly held size 9 port be "in the white" but when it total supplies are less than (at least) 2K, your MLs (or subs) will not reload mines.

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RE: Defencive Minefields - 6/15/2009 1:39:42 PM   
n01487477


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quote:

You do NOT need to have a different port (i.e. - home port and the port you are laying mines at can be the same) under 1.806 (earlier versions did though).


As I said
quote:

I know there is a way to do this in the same hex, but I find it haphazard.
... I'm patched and still find the same base - same destination mine laying to not be an exact science... I was not trying to mislead anyone, but was perhaps less than expressive.

Thanks rtrapasso for making me clean up my mess again

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Post #: 7
RE: Defencive Minefields - 6/15/2009 1:48:05 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477


quote:

You do NOT need to have a different port (i.e. - home port and the port you are laying mines at can be the same) under 1.806 (earlier versions did though).


As I said
quote:

I know there is a way to do this in the same hex, but I find it haphazard.
... I'm patched and still find the same base - same destination mine laying to not be an exact science... I was not trying to mislead anyone, but was perhaps less than expressive.

Thanks rtrapasso for making me clean up my mess again

Interesting... since the 1.806 patch, i've never had any problems EXCEPT for the business about "insufficient supply" - i spent many turns at the beginning of my current PBEM trying to figure out WHY mines could not be loaded at Trincomalee, and finally figured out it was the supply issue. Aside from this, i've never had any problems.

However, i always take the precaution of "undocking" any ships about to lay mines at a home port, so perhaps that makes a difference if you don't do it religiously... i had problems in earlier versions, so routinely (for all ships about sail) do it without thinking about it.

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RE: Defencive Minefields - 6/15/2009 2:10:13 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline 		I'm playing with 1.806 patch level, and I've not yet had a problem laying mines in the home port of a TF.  I load it, don't seem to need to undock it, and just select "Lay mines". 

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RE: Defencive Minefields - 6/15/2009 2:13:59 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline 		I havent seen docking or undocking as an issue. 2 things to check are that you are set to unload the mines. This is what I do:

1) Make sure you set the TF to unload the mines. I do this before setting the target.

2) Set your target. After you click it, you will see a brief message on the screen that says in effect "mines will be laid at Kwajalein. After you see this message you are golden. I (personally) ALWAYS do it in this order and have never had a problem.




Attachment (1)

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RE: Defencive Minefields - 6/15/2009 2:34:36 PM   
n01487477


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Status: offline
Ahh, tricks of the trade night ... love it . I think I must set the destination first ... Thanks YH

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RE: Defencive Minefields - 6/16/2009 3:49:48 PM   
sventhebold


Posts: 360
Joined: 12/22/2006
From: From MN now AZ Prescott Valley
Status: offline 		To add to that. How many mines are enough for a defensive field?

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RE: Defencive Minefields - 6/16/2009 4:13:06 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline 		My "basic" field as the Japs is 5000. This will take an allied player about 2 weeks to clear. An outlaying area (like Midway) I will make stronger to give me more time to react to it.

The purpose of a minefield isnt to cause casualties. Its purpose is to slow down the allied player. Players that choose to ignore this and charge on in get what they deserve. These fields can be easily cleared, it just takes time. If you dont want to take the time to do it right, as I said, you get what you deserve.

< Message edited by Yamato hugger -- 6/16/2009 4:14:05 PM >

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RE: Defensive Minefields - 6/16/2009 4:28:26 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		And as a Allied player who seems to have a history of PBEM opponents with mine fetishes:

1.  You -should- pay minefields their due respect (esp if they're combined with a CD gun).
2.  Protect your MSWs.  They're a *close* second in importance behind your CVs (as an Allied player).
3.  You don't have to sweep "all" the mines.  Yes, it's nice to clear them all out, but you don't always have that luxury - it can take forever.  When your MSW TFs have a harder time detecting the fields, but the dot still shows up, you know the minefield is getting to size you can invade.  If you don't sweep all the mines, you're going to hit some.  Just accept that fact, and PLAN ACCORDINGLY, and your blood-pressure won't spike on invasion day.
4.  Be as ready as you can to triage the casualties from MSWs and CDs.  Know where the closest port you can disband in is, and have 4x ARs + AD + Fleet HQ ready to handle the casualties.

-F-

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RE: Defensive Minefields - 6/16/2009 8:17:45 PM   
engineer

 

Posts: 590
Joined: 9/8/2006
Status: offline 		Historically, the Japanese had minefields with 15000 to 25000 mines in the straights around the Home Islands and Tokyo Bay. 

One other point about your minefields is the need to maintain them.  Minefields at a friendly port will erode 1% per day so, for example, Yamato Hugger's basic minefield of 5000 mines will erode to 4660 mines after a week (5000 x 99%^7).  This plays into your calculations about the aerial balance at your position.  If the trend will be for the enemy to acquire an increasing edge in air power, you might want to really build up your minefield before you lose local air superiority and then send your minelayers further back to work on the next barrier of defenses.   For example, a minefield that starts at 30,000 mines will attrit down to about 5000 mines after six months. 

Also, if you start to go hog wild with mega minefields of tens of thousands of mines, you will begin to pick up "friendly fire" casualties where you own ships will run over and detonate one of your own mines.  It's a rare event, but I've seen it happen. 

Also, there is a whole nuisance campaign of submarine minelaying. Subs can load up a few mines and then lay them secretly at an enemy port. If you mine an enemy port, your lines will attrit at 10% per day, but you might get lucky and hit an AK or warship. This is why the OOB has all those little MSW's all over the rear of the theater so you can do periodic minesweeping runs against the devil dog opponent who doesn't mind inflicting a death of a thousand cuts on your side. If your port is mined by an opponent's subs, you won't know about it until either a ship blows up or a minesweeping capable ship (destroyer, DE, minesweeper) detects the minefield.

< Message edited by engineer -- 6/16/2009 8:21:25 PM >

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Post #: 15
RE: Defensive Minefields - 6/17/2009 12:58:08 AM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline
quote:

Minefields at a friendly port will erode 1% per day


Actually, this is probably a case where the manual is wrong again.

It's actually 1% per TURN. So a game playing 2-day turns, will erode 1% every two days at friendly port.

Yes, I just tested this. Whatever. Just thought I'd clarify.

-F-

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RE: Defensive Minefields - 6/17/2009 2:33:31 AM   
Mynok


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Status: offline
Set destination to the port with a left click. Set destination again to the port with a right click. You will see the hex location rather than the port name now. Then change to Lay Mines. Done.




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Post #: 17
RE: Defensive Minefields - 6/17/2009 4:57:44 PM   
engineer

 

Posts: 590
Joined: 9/8/2006
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quote:

Actually, this is probably a case where the manual is wrong again.

It's actually 1% per TURN. So a game playing 2-day turns, will erode 1% every two days at friendly port.

Yes, I just tested this. Whatever. Just thought I'd clarify.

-F-


Good catch.  I usually play 1 day turns unless I hit a slow patch.  The 2 day turns will stretch the life on minefields.

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Post #: 18
RE: Defensive Minefields - 7/13/2009 7:15:14 AM   
gladiatt


Posts: 2576
Joined: 4/10/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Set destination to the port with a left click. Set destination again to the port with a right click. You will see the hex location rather than the port name now. Then change to Lay Mines. Done.





Making re-born this thread.
What does that mean if a Mine Warfare TF, with DM or ML don't have the "Lay Mine" in yellow, but in grey ? Is it a bug of some kind?
Checking the ships themselves, everyone has a load of mine;the port is Pearl (in Stock), so size enough. More than 20000 supply. I set a destination to a nearby hawain island....the DM come back to pearl with their load still aboard.....


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RE: Defensive Minefields - 7/13/2009 8:18:24 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		Eric, which patch version are you playing? 

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RE: Defensive Minefields - 7/13/2009 8:49:39 AM   
gladiatt


Posts: 2576
Joined: 4/10/2008
Status: offline 		Stock. 1.806.

i thought it was the good version.. ?

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Post #: 21
RE: Defensive Minefields - 7/13/2009 10:43:40 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gladiatt


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Set destination to the port with a left click. Set destination again to the port with a right click. You will see the hex location rather than the port name now. Then change to Lay Mines. Done.





Making re-born this thread.
What does that mean if a Mine Warfare TF, with DM or ML don't have the "Lay Mine" in yellow, but in grey ? Is it a bug of some kind?
Checking the ships themselves, everyone has a load of mine;the port is Pearl (in Stock), so size enough. More than 20000 supply. I set a destination to a nearby hawain island....the DM come back to pearl with their load still aboard.....



Never seen or heard of this problem. If you want to send me a save, I will take a look and tell you what is wrong but I have no idea from the little info supplied.

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RE: Defensive Minefields - 7/13/2009 12:19:03 PM   
gladiatt


Posts: 2576
Joined: 4/10/2008
Status: offline 		Thanks for the offer. I cannot send a file for the moment, not being at home with the game, but i will try tonight.


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RE: Defensive Minefields - 7/13/2009 3:02:49 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gladiatt

Thanks for the offer. I cannot send a file for the moment, not being at home with the game, but i will try tonight.


You might run into this (greyed out mine laying option) problem if you actually have not loaded mines... this can occur for a couple of reasons, including (but probably not limited to):

1. Insufficient port size.
2. Insufficient OP points.
3. Insufficient supply at the port (even if size 9).

Check the individual ships to make sure they actually have mines loaded.

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 7/13/2009 3:03:03 PM >

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Post #: 24
RE: Defensive Minefields - 7/13/2009 3:13:14 PM   
gladiatt


Posts: 2576
Joined: 4/10/2008
Status: offline 		Port is Pearl, size 10 in a stock game 1.806. More than 20 000 supplies in port.
Looking at the individual ship (the screen were is detailled it's weapons) i can see the mines loaded (40 or so on a DM).
I will try to send a file of my turn to Yamato Hugger tonight.

Also: this ANNOYING stuff (to say the least) is also happening for a ML in Trincomalee; size 9 port, more than 20 000 supplies, and same thing, the ship have the load of mine, but it get back to home port before unloading mines at the intended destination.......



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RE: Defensive Minefields - 7/13/2009 8:33:21 PM   
Barb


Posts: 2503
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline 		What about TF type? you need to be in a Minelayer TF ... If you are in Escort - it may not work...

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RE: Defensive Minefields - 7/13/2009 9:03:38 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gladiatt

Port is Pearl, size 10 in a stock game 1.806. More than 20 000 supplies in port.
Looking at the individual ship (the screen were is detailled it's weapons) i can see the mines loaded (40 or so on a DM).
I will try to send a file of my turn to Yamato Hugger tonight.

Also: this ANNOYING stuff (to say the least) is also happening for a ML in Trincomalee; size 9 port, more than 20 000 supplies, and same thing, the ship have the load of mine, but it get back to home port before unloading mines at the intended destination.......



Check your email, Eric...

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Post #: 27
RE: Defensive Minefields - 7/14/2009 10:11:58 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gladiatt

Port is Pearl, size 10 in a stock game 1.806. More than 20 000 supplies in port.
Looking at the individual ship (the screen were is detailled it's weapons) i can see the mines loaded (40 or so on a DM).
I will try to send a file of my turn to Yamato Hugger tonight.

Also: this ANNOYING stuff (to say the least) is also happening for a ML in Trincomalee; size 9 port, more than 20 000 supplies, and same thing, the ship have the load of mine, but it get back to home port before unloading mines at the intended destination.......



I dont know, I loaded the file you sent (39), typed in the password you sent, clicked on TF 1234 and saw the top pix. I clicked the do not lay mines, and got the bottom pix. Not sure what you are seeing, but thats what I see.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Yamato hugger -- 7/14/2009 10:12:19 AM >

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Post #: 28
RE: Defensive Minefields - 7/14/2009 2:07:24 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline 		Problem solved with deinstall - reinstall... apparently the installation was corrupt.

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Post #: 29
RE: Defensive Minefields - 7/14/2009 9:43:09 PM   
gladiatt


Posts: 2576
Joined: 4/10/2008
Status: offline 		Thanks to both of you guys for the time given.

After uninstall and reinstall, it work correctly now.

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