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RE: PBEM 109 - 6/15/2009 3:06:42 AM   
Mus

 

Posts: 1759
Joined: 11/13/2005
Status: offline 		Hopefully Sweden sends soon, I would like to get another turn in.

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Post #: 121
RE: PBEM 109 - 6/15/2009 3:10:46 AM   
Mus

 

Posts: 1759
Joined: 11/13/2005
Status: offline 		Trade announcement:

Great Britain is looking for trading partners with surplus Iron, Wood, Horses, and Wool/Cotton.

Will trade 2 money per resource or 1 money 1 spice per resource.  Send me a pm if you are interested.  Once the details are worked out through PM you would enable your "export" box on your PBEM settings for that resource and I would send the deals from my end. After the deal goes through (takes a couple turns) you would then turn the export box off to prevent the idiot trade AI from trading away everything but the kitchen sink.

< Message edited by Mus -- 6/15/2009 3:57:58 AM >

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Post #: 122
RE: PBEM 109 - 6/15/2009 3:20:36 AM   
Anthropoid


Posts: 3107
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Secret Underground Lair
Status: offline 		Russia also has wool to export. Make your best offer if you are sincerely interested.

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The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
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Post #: 123
RE: PBEM 109 - 6/15/2009 7:02:38 AM   
aprezto


Posts: 824
Joined: 1/29/2009
Status: offline 		Umm, I have set some trade policies but note that earlier PBEMs (that I've only now looked into as they seemed to be mainly for those playing), that this could get me into all sorts of strife as the AI goes mad trading my resources. Should I redo my turn?

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Post #: 124
RE: PBEM 109 - 6/15/2009 11:32:09 AM   
terje439


Posts: 6813
Joined: 3/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronWarrior

Got yours Brian, haven't received aprezto's or Anthropoid's despite them saying they've sent the files.



Sorry to say IW, but it seems it is at your end then, I could not send to you when I first emailed the turns to everyone, had to send it to you as a mail of its own.

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Post #: 125
RE: PBEM 109 - 6/15/2009 11:41:26 AM   
terje439


Posts: 6813
Joined: 3/28/2004
Status: offline 		About the AARs, are any of you posting on other sites as well? I am posting it here and on civfanatics.com

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"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

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Post #: 126
RE: PBEM 109 - 6/15/2009 1:20:48 PM   
Anthropoid


Posts: 3107
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Secret Underground Lair
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aprezto

Umm, I have set some trade policies but note that earlier PBEMs (that I've only now looked into as they seemed to be mainly for those playing), that this could get me into all sorts of strife as the AI goes mad trading my resources. Should I redo my turn?


Not entirely sure how trade works in this system in MP.

_____________________________

The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIIlkyZ328&feature=autoplay&list=AL94UKMTqg-9CocLGbd6tpbuQRxyF4FGNr&playnext=3

(in reply to aprezto)
Post #: 127
RE: PBEM 109 - 6/15/2009 4:18:10 PM   
06 Maestro


Posts: 3989
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Nevada, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439

About the AARs, are any of you posting on other sites as well? I am posting it here and on civfanatics.com


I am still shopping around. I had 2 sites in mind, but have not noticed a non review aar. I'll find a place eventually.

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Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies.

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Post #: 128
RE: PBEM 109 - 6/15/2009 4:21:10 PM   
06 Maestro


Posts: 3989
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Nevada, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid


Not entirely sure how trade works in this system in MP.


You ain't the only one..

I did not read that far into the rules-thought it might have worked the same.

_____________________________

Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies.

Thomas Jefferson


(in reply to Anthropoid)
Post #: 129
RE: PBEM 109 - 6/15/2009 10:06:41 PM   
aprezto


Posts: 824
Joined: 1/29/2009
Status: offline 		I was just twigged to it by Mus asking to do trade, I had figured that would be done with the internal system. I then read the 1st PBEM game that highlighted some serious failings with the automated trade system - of course I did this all after sending in my turn!
It appears the trade AI has some strange ideas about what it rates as important, and that mainly revolves around stockpiles you have.
I had set trade policy such that I allowed imports and exports for the resources I felt I could trade. However, I don't know whether the trade AI instigates trade deals, or just 'allows' the ones players request???
Obviously, if it the second, then an unscrupulous player could request a very poor trade that the AI would OK because you have a large stockpile - of money say.
Mus, at least, seemed to completely lack trust in the trade AI and favoured player to player diplomacy and only opening the resources you were after in a trade, and only in a very small window.

What's up with the next turn?

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Post #: 130
RE: PBEM 109 - 6/15/2009 11:03:37 PM   
06 Maestro


Posts: 3989
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Nevada, USA
Status: offline 		Can someone tell me where the "set policy" page is at for trading? I reloaded the initial turn sent to me. After choosing my country, it goes right into the game. The button might be right under my nose, but I can't find it.

I thought the only setting depended on using the trade adviser, but I noticed a different page in the instructions. Help would be appreciated-thanks.

_____________________________

Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies.

Thomas Jefferson


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Post #: 131
RE: PBEM 109 - 6/16/2009 12:00:59 AM   
aprezto


Posts: 824
Joined: 1/29/2009
Status: offline 		right mouse click anywhere in your territory and you'll get a menu option to 'set PBEM policy'

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Post #: 132
RE: PBEM 109 - 6/16/2009 12:24:00 AM   
06 Maestro


Posts: 3989
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Nevada, USA
Status: offline 		-thanks

_____________________________

Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies.

Thomas Jefferson


(in reply to aprezto)
Post #: 133
RE: PBEM 109 - 6/16/2009 1:29:26 AM   
Mus

 

Posts: 1759
Joined: 11/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aprezto

Mus, at least, seemed to completely lack trust in the trade AI and favoured player to player diplomacy and only opening the resources you were after in a trade, and only in a very small window.


Yep. I advise keeping very strict control over your exports and imports and only allowing exports when you KNOW a trading parter is going to be sending a trade proposal that you have worked out ahead of time.

Theoretically the trading partner could sucker your AI trade thingy into accepting a bad deal but that would be kinda like violating your word in a diplomatic arrangement. They other party would just cancel the deal and then not do business with you in the future. Basically shooting yourself in the foot.

Below are some examples of AI trade lunacy:

1. If you have a large stockpile of any resource (but mainly noticed it with money) the AI greatly devalues it... it doesnt consider the perceptions of other players, who may well be critically short of said resource, when placing value.

An example of this is Great Britain which is one of the few cash rich countries in the game. France is second, but usually spends its treasure on supplying wars of conquest and fighting off coalitions against it. Most other countries are fairly cash poor in comparison.

Because GB has a lot of cash the AI assigns a very low value to units of money and will trade money for resources at a very high ratio of money to resource. A rational human in charge of trade can realize that just because they have a lot of money doesnt mean that everyone else does (in fact most of the resource rich countries, the most desirable trading partners for Great Britain are cash poor) and will value their money accordingly.

This would be like a rich person buying a $30,000 car for $120,000 or even $300,000. People dont do that in the real world. Its not rational. The supply of the $30,000 commodity was limited such that the rich person had to compete to secure the purchase they would offer more, but no more than necessary to secure the purchase. They wouldnt devalue their money several times over as the AI does.

2. The AI trade engine thought in one game that 1 textile for 1 wool or cotton was a "good deal" when it takes 4 wool/cotton to make 1 textile. Most people can see that that kind of deal would be economic suicide, the AI trade engine thinks its fine and dandy. We never really figured out why the AI thought this was a good trade, but it led to the misconception that that was a "market price" (even though nobody would pay it by definition not market price) and killed a trade deal.

< Message edited by Mus -- 6/16/2009 3:17:40 AM >

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Post #: 134
RE: PBEM 109 - 6/16/2009 2:12:39 AM   
Mus

 

Posts: 1759
Joined: 11/13/2005
Status: offline 		Hey guys are we any closer to sorting out the email issues here?  I wanna play.



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Post #: 135
RE: PBEM 109 - 6/16/2009 3:54:28 AM   
06 Maestro


Posts: 3989
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Nevada, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mus

Hey guys are we any closer to sorting out the email issues here?  I wanna play.




Double ditto.



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Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies.

Thomas Jefferson


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Post #: 136
RE: PBEM 109 - 6/16/2009 3:59:53 AM   
06 Maestro


Posts: 3989
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Nevada, USA
Status: offline 		When you offer your trade proposal via mail, is it necessary to specify the amounts and provinces? In other words; can I simply make arrangements for the type of resource and the exchange rate prior to sending the turn?


_____________________________

Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies.

Thomas Jefferson


(in reply to 06 Maestro)
Post #: 137
RE: PBEM 109 - 6/16/2009 5:16:11 AM   
Mus

 

Posts: 1759
Joined: 11/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro

When you offer your trade proposal via mail, is it necessary to specify the amounts and provinces? In other words; can I simply make arrangements for the type of resource and the exchange rate prior to sending the turn?



The way Ive been handling trade is I negotiate with the other party via PM on the forum. We hammer out which provinces and what quantities are going to be involved in the trade. Then they set what Im going to give them as "import" and what they are going to give me as "export" and leave it that way for a couple turns while the trade goes through. I send the deal from my end using the economy-trade window. After the trade goes through they put their settings back however they want them on their PBEM policy screen.

This makes it a very short window of "vulnerability" as that term applies, to reduce as much as possible the chance the AI will accept undesirable deals involving those commodities sent by a third party, be it human or AI controlled to me or the second party.

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Post #: 138
RE: PBEM 109 - 6/16/2009 6:28:04 AM   
IronWarrior


Posts: 801
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: Beaverton, OR
Status: offline 		Yeah so the email issues with apreazto and Anthropoid are all sorted, still waiting for Sweden. Maybe I misunderstood and Andrew doesn't want to play? I'll try pming him and see.

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Post #: 139
RE: PBEM 109 - 6/16/2009 11:32:22 AM   
MorningDew

 

Posts: 1170
Joined: 9/20/2006
From: Greenville, SC
Status: offline 		All. Embarrassed. Didn't realize I was playing:) I will get a move this AM and be MUCH faster/communicative in the future (I promise!).

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Post #: 140
RE: PBEM 109 - 6/16/2009 11:37:43 AM   
IronWarrior


Posts: 801
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: Beaverton, OR
Status: offline 		Hey Andew, no problem. Give me a heads up when you send the files so I know as there's been some issues with my email apparently.

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Post #: 141
RE: PBEM 109 - 6/16/2009 11:38:48 AM   
MorningDew

 

Posts: 1170
Joined: 9/20/2006
From: Greenville, SC
Status: offline 		I should have it done within the next 2 hours. I will post here when I e-mail it.

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Post #: 142
RE: PBEM 109 - 6/16/2009 4:49:14 PM   
MorningDew

 

Posts: 1170
Joined: 9/20/2006
From: Greenville, SC
Status: offline 		Sweden in. Again, sorry for the delay. Misunderstood and quit paying attention to the thread.

Let me know if you do not get it.

< Message edited by AndrewKurtz -- 6/16/2009 6:09:56 PM >

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Post #: 143
RE: PBEM 109 - 6/16/2009 5:11:21 PM   
IronWarrior


Posts: 801
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: Beaverton, OR
Status: offline 		Got it... thanks for the fast response. Going to go merge and do my turn, should send the new turn back out shortly.

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Post #: 144
RE: PBEM 109 - 6/16/2009 7:01:30 PM   
IronWarrior


Posts: 801
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: Beaverton, OR
Status: offline 		Turn 1 sent!

If anyone didn't get the file let me know.

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Post #: 145
RE: PBEM 109 - 6/16/2009 8:36:20 PM   
Russian Guard


Posts: 1251
Joined: 10/14/2005
Status: offline
Just curious, you guys playing with the All Generals mod?






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Post #: 146
RE: PBEM 109 - 6/16/2009 8:42:44 PM   
IronWarrior


Posts: 801
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: Beaverton, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Russian Guard


Just curious, you guys playing with the All Generals mod?



Yes- thanks for doing that btw!

That reminds me though, I hope everyone did install the mod :D.

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Post #: 147
RE: PBEM 109 - 6/16/2009 8:47:19 PM   
06 Maestro


Posts: 3989
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Nevada, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronWarrior


That reminds me though, I hope everyone did install the mod :D.

I have no idea-yet. OK-Edit-I thought that you mentioned "mod d"-some sort of smiley I guess. I have the Generals mod installed.

Turn 001 sent.

< Message edited by 06 Maestro -- 6/16/2009 8:53:22 PM >

_____________________________

Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies.

Thomas Jefferson


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Post #: 148
RE: PBEM 109 - 6/16/2009 9:05:22 PM   
Russian Guard


Posts: 1251
Joined: 10/14/2005
Status: offline
Cool! It will work fine.

I'll follow this one and see how it goes.









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Post #: 149
RE: PBEM 109 - 6/16/2009 9:25:37 PM   
aprezto


Posts: 824
Joined: 1/29/2009
Status: offline 		Umm no! Is it too late now?

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Post #: 150
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