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War in China - 6/26/2009 2:30:58 AM   
lomyrin


Posts: 3741
Joined: 12/21/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		Here is an example of the war in China from the MWiF start in Sep/Oct 39

Japan is going to go all out for China and will ignore the Russians in the Far East. Maintaining sufficient garrison to minimize the appearance of Partisans is one of the Japanese problems. The extra Chinese cities, this option is turned on, will help the Chinese survive a lot better than in the CWif game.

Shown here are the starting positions.






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RE: War in China - 6/26/2009 2:39:22 AM   
lomyrin


Posts: 3741
Joined: 12/21/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		We are now after the 5th impulse, the Axis third one.

China has lost a few units but have been able to retreat slowly while remaining in supply. The weather has been fine so far.

The Chungking Militia unit that was in ChengChow and now has retreated inland is hindering the Japanese advance and might be lost but it is inexpensive and can be rebuilt quickly.

Chang Cha in the south has 2 Chinese Garrison units and a Division, this is a critical rail city junction and Japan needs to control it to advance much farther into China and their resources. Japan has been careful to avoid garrison value defeating contact with Chinese units and so far does not have many disorganized units. At this point the risk for Chinese partisans at the end of the turn is only 5%.






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RE: War in China - 6/26/2009 3:51:06 AM   
lomyrin


Posts: 3741
Joined: 12/21/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		After the Axis 4th impulse with the weather remaining fine the Japanse have penetrated a little further but they have suffered several units disrupted and are mindful about the garrison needs to avoid Partisans now that the turn could end at any time.

The Chinese Chungking Mil has been lost and the Chinese are planning to rebuild it quickly. There is some Japanse penetrations in the central mountains so China will have to make sure there are some Chinese units available to block the Japanese progress here.





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RE: War in China - 6/26/2009 8:12:05 AM   
Greywolf

 

Posts: 105
Joined: 11/15/2000
Status: offline 		In the South the Chinese are better to defend in mountain behind river on the two side of the Canton-Changyan Railroad... each unit here blocade one or two japanese unit for supply keeping or they had to be assaulted wich isn't exactly a pleasure for the smaller Japanese South Army.

Commies are deployed far too much to the back, they should take care of Chengtu defend or abandon it totally , freeing unit for a more stronger defence of middle China.

Too many strong units are deployed near Nanning, put one fast in the mountain in front of Hainan and you will add trouble to the japanese and make him far harder to attaque with only one HQ avaliable... China need not to be a punching ball but retort to supply cutting attack or mountain guerilla making the Japanese choice of assaulting weak chinese unit in mountain or keeping supply keeper out of garrison and frontline duty.

The true Japanese ennemy in China is supply.

Also the SU player should really enjoy the current japanse setup because Mandchouria is rip for the picking...

_____________________________

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RE: War in China - 6/26/2009 5:15:57 PM   
lomyrin


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Joined: 12/21/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greywolf

In the South the Chinese are better to defend in mountain behind river on the two side of the Canton-Changyan Railroad... each unit here blocade one or two japanese unit for supply keeping or they had to be assaulted wich isn't exactly a pleasure for the smaller Japanese South Army.

Commies are deployed far too much to the back, they should take care of Chengtu defend or abandon it totally , freeing unit for a more stronger defence of middle China.

Too many strong units are deployed near Nanning, put one fast in the mountain in front of Hainan and you will add trouble to the japanese and make him far harder to attaque with only one HQ avaliable... China need not to be a punching ball but retort to supply cutting attack or mountain guerilla making the Japanese choice of assaulting weak chinese unit in mountain or keeping supply keeper out of garrison and frontline duty.

The true Japanese ennemy in China is supply.

Also the SU player should really enjoy the current japanse setup because Mandchouria is rip for the picking...


For this game example the Russians kindly agreed to leave the Japanese untouched in Manchuria. On the other hand on this scale of map Manchuria is quite large and this gives ample time for Japan to counter and hold a Russian advance that Germany would love to see.

The Chinese in the south began closer to Canton but a daring Japanese attack that cost them an Engineer breached that position. Old CWiF experiences are part of the reasons for placing the Chinese in the south.

The Commies are a bit brittle and their main concern is to keep control of the mountain pass that leads to Si-An and the hinterland with its resources and factories. In time their numbers will increase and cause Japan problems.

Supply is indeed a large problem for Japan and in this map with the extra Chinese cities the usual Chinese supply problems have been mostly eliminated.

Other than that your comments of course illustrates the differing opinions of players and thus contributes to the great variety of game situations. :)]


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RE: War in China - 6/26/2009 5:59:07 PM   
lomyrin


Posts: 3741
Joined: 12/21/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		Axis impulse 9 of Sep/Oct 39 has been completed and the turn did not end.

Japan made a fairly daring attack on a Communist Mil at the approaches to the Si-An area and succeded in knocking out the Mil but at a cost of a Japanese Inf unit and another one disrupted. This increased the partisan risk to 18 % which is not to Japan's liking.

China will be looking at placing smoe units in the central mountains as sson as they can get them there.




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RE: War in China - 6/26/2009 6:22:32 PM   
lomyrin


Posts: 3741
Joined: 12/21/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		At impulse 10 with a good chance of ending the turn China moves adjacent to Japanese units in the south in order to increase the Partisan chances, now at 27 %

Unfortunately the turn did not end but the next impulse sees a weather change toi rain in most of China.




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RE: War in China - 6/26/2009 6:22:35 PM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		fascinating stuff, thanks for posting!

Looking forward to playing on this map; I haven't played cops-and-robbers / cowboys-and-indians since I was very young.

China can really suffer when the fall of 1939 is continually sunny and warm all across their land.

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RE: War in China - 6/26/2009 7:46:26 PM   
MajorDude


Posts: 199
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Status: offline 		Thanks for the neat pics and commentary!

It looks just great!

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RE: War in China - 6/27/2009 1:26:13 AM   
lomyrin


Posts: 3741
Joined: 12/21/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		It is now at impulse 13 with rain in North China and storm in the south.

The Communists withdrew into the mountain and left a City empty to the East of Si -An. Nationalists have begun moving a couple of units northeastwards into the central mountains and have occupied the central mountain city.

The first turn ended after this impulse and the partisans did not enter the China area this time. Chinese production is at 5 buildpoints so they will build a random 2 of the 3 Militia units in the Chinese force pool. The cost is 2 buildpoints each and they enter the game immediately in their home city. China will save 1 buildpoint for future use.




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RE: War in China - 6/27/2009 1:49:40 AM   
BallyJ

 

Posts: 142
Joined: 5/25/2008
Status: offline 		Thank you for this thread. Looks great, can't wait, Asia will certainly be different in this scale. Keep up the good work!

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RE: War in China - 6/27/2009 8:44:58 PM   
lomyrin


Posts: 3741
Joined: 12/21/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		After the end of turn 1 Japan built all infantry that will arrive in January/february 40. China built 2 Militia units.

The new Chinese Mils were Chungking and Lanchow and the units are now there.

The Axis have the initiative for the November/December 39 turn and the weather in China turned to snow.

Japan occupied Tungkwan and shipped some new units into Canton. In a combined action that was all they could do on land. Japan also groundstruck the hex east of Si-An with no effect. The Communists have 2 units there, a 7-3 Infantry and a Garrison unit.







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< Message edited by lomyrin -- 6/27/2009 8:46:43 PM >

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RE: War in China - 6/28/2009 12:37:03 AM   
lomyrin


Posts: 3741
Joined: 12/21/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		In November/December with inclement weather the impulses advance quicker than in clear weather and it went from impulse 1 directly to impulse 4 and the Chinese are hoping for a short turn with more bad weather to gain time and more troops. It is snow in north China and rain in the south.

Japan broke down an infantry unit west of Chengchow into 2 fast Divisions threatening a flanking move in the north.

The Chinese are moving troops into the snowy central mountains to draw supply from Ankang and in the south in rain they are also moving forward a little to try containing the Japanese forces that just were reinforced by landings in Canton.

The communists are trying to contain the Japanese east of Si-An and the snow helps the defense a lot.




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RE: War in China - 6/28/2009 1:16:43 AM   
lomyrin


Posts: 3741
Joined: 12/21/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		The Japanese 2nd impulse this turn, it is already impulse number 7 and the turn could end... The weather is still snow in the north but fine in the south.

Jap Divisions and other units advance towards Si-An and appear to be trying to envelop the area to force the Communists to withdraw from the mountains in front of Si-An in order to defend the city and its supply. There a re no attacks in the snow and the Japanese are careful to preserve a large garrison to minimize partisan problems.

In the south in fine weather Japan makes an attack and using HQ support to increase the odds kills a Chinese infanrty unit.




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RE: War in China - 6/28/2009 1:47:16 AM   
lomyrin


Posts: 3741
Joined: 12/21/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		Turn 2 ended on a roll of 1.  Japan produced more infantry and a Territorial and a Militia unit.
China produced another Mil - and only the Si-An Mil was left in the forcepool so it was produced and placed in Si-An as a sorely needed reinforcement. China also produced a Mountain infantry that will appear  in spring of 40.

Turn 3 began with another winter roll and a rapid advance of the impulse track will occur in January/February of 40.

  

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RE: War in China - 6/28/2009 3:38:03 AM   
lomyrin


Posts: 3741
Joined: 12/21/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		Turn 3, January/Februari 40 and still snow in the north and fine in the south of China.
Japan has the initiative and taking a combined action is shipping the new reinforcement troops to the China sea in order to land them in China. Japan lands one Infanrty unit in Canton and advances with one northeast of Si-An and another one in the south. They do not attack yet.




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RE: War in China - 6/28/2009 3:53:08 AM   
lomyrin


Posts: 3741
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From: San Diego
Status: offline 		Tunr 3, JAn/Feb 40 impulse 4 due to the weather acceleration of impulses. It is the first Chinese impulse.

China moves a few units to better protect its defensive lines and still hopes for an early end of the turn.

The weather effects option has been turned off this time but it is still snow in the north and fine in the south.






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RE: War in China - 6/29/2009 8:41:29 AM   
Lothrim

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 4/7/2006
Status: offline 		Hi lomyrin

It is great that you make the time to show us these photos. It makes it clear that while the war in china is very different it is not totally broken.
I think the greatest change from the boardgame is that you need to pay a lot of attention to the front at all times. Since attacks are made not by concentrating force against a single hex, but by concentrating a great amount of counters in an area and then oozing through the opponents lines, the amount of units will make a difference.

Overall I belive that china will profit from the change. Not because it has more counters, but because it can take a land action with impunity every impulse. By constantly shifting his mobile troops around he can force japan to take many land actions.

Personally I like the boardgame as it is, but I will buy the computer game anyway, just to play the Fascist Tide scenario.

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RE: War in China - 6/29/2009 1:48:54 PM   
micheljq


Posts: 791
Joined: 3/31/2008
From: Quebec
Status: offline 		Thanks for the great screenshots.

Against who or against what do you play?

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RE: War in China - 6/30/2009 12:34:00 AM   
lomyrin


Posts: 3741
Joined: 12/21/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		This time the play is between the Chinese marshall Lom and the Japanese high command Yrin.

No AI as yet so it is solitaire

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RE: War in China - 6/30/2009 1:07:48 AM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 3191
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Status: offline 		what all is hiding in that stack in Wuhan?

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RE: War in China - 6/30/2009 1:28:44 AM   
lomyrin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

what all is hiding in that stack in Wuhan?


A Militia, 1 Gun, 1Ftr and 1 bomber. The await the probable arrival of the 5 size HQ to proceed south and southwest eventually.

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RE: War in China - 6/30/2009 1:33:41 AM   
lomyrin


Posts: 3741
Joined: 12/21/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		The second Japanese impulse in J/F 40 gets a break in the weather, a 1 was rolled resulting in rain in the north and fine in the south of China.

Japan lands several reinforcing units in Canton and attacks and kills a Nationalist unit in the south and now are threatening the single Chinese city in the South mountains. If China loses control of that city they will have to retreat in a westerly direction and will have supply problems as well.

As it turns out the turn also ended on a 1 so next is productin again. Thee were no partisans in China.






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RE: War in China - 6/30/2009 6:24:33 PM   
lomyrin


Posts: 3741
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From: San Diego
Status: offline 		It is now March/April or 40 and the Allies won the initiative but the weather turned abysmal with Blizzards in the north and rain in the south. China did not do anything except place a unit in the south mountain city to stop the Japanese.

In the Japanese impulse, already impulse number 4 which will go to 7 in the next China impulse and have a small chance of the turn already ending, Japan merely moved a little and landed more troops in Canton. The Japanese in the south mountains in rain are temporarily out of supply.






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RE: War in China - 6/30/2009 7:27:36 PM   
MajorDude


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lomyrin

... The Japanese in the south mountains in rain are temporarily out of supply.



I just noticed, how does it show they are out of supply?

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RE: War in China - 6/30/2009 7:44:09 PM   
lomyrin


Posts: 3741
Joined: 12/21/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		Near the right upper corner of the units is a little dot. Thedot is green when in supply and yellow when out of supply. It can also be brown for isolated.
At the zoom leve 3 that I am using to be able to show the entire theater in China this does not show very clearly though.

In rain the supply chain is only 2 hexes and it takes the HQ in the south 2 hexes to get to a rail line from which it can get to supply in Japan, but the trip overseas requires one more hex worth of travel so it is too far.


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RE: War in China - 6/30/2009 8:06:41 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MajorDude


quote:

ORIGINAL: lomyrin

... The Japanese in the south mountains in rain are temporarily out of supply.



I just noticed, how does it show they are out of supply?






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_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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RE: War in China - 6/30/2009 8:16:59 PM   
lomyrin


Posts: 3741
Joined: 12/21/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		The weather suddenly changed to a nice spring, fine weather everywhere. The Chinese try to improve their positions now that they are awaiting a Japanese onslaught. The turn might have ended on a 1 but no such luck for china.

Japan now with fine weather goes to the attack: They succefully groundstruck the 7 factor Communist Inf East of Si-An and are atacking the hex with all the strength they could move into position. China uses defensive HQ support from Mao and Japan uses attacking HQ support to improve odds.

In the middle Japan is attacking a lone Chinese Mil unit with overwhelming odds.

In the south Japan tried to groundstrike Kweillin but their NAV bomber was shot down by the Chinese Ftr that intercepted. Japan still attack the City and uses offensive HQ support to improve odds.

This screen is at zoom level 4 in order to show the units and attacks clearer but the amount of map shown is decreased.






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RE: War in China - 6/30/2009 10:01:17 PM   
Petracelli69

 

Posts: 18
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Status: offline 		Interesting to see how it has changed. A question for the beta testers is when Japan goes all out for China is it with the new hex scale more likley than in the boardgame to conqueour China as imo this would affect the game balance.

Cheers

Phil

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Post #: 29
RE: War in China - 6/30/2009 10:28:55 PM   
lomyrin


Posts: 3741
Joined: 12/21/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		I have found with CWiF that was at this scale that China often got either conquered or  completely lamed. With MWiF I do not believe it is that likely to happen. In the game here Japan is going all out to hit China and it is not worried about Manchuria and the Russians. nice in solitaire..

China here has many extra cities and thus a much better supply situation. The farther in the Japanese get, the more diffcult will be their supply situation. While the Japanese are making headway right now, soon will be the monsoon season in the south and that area will stagnate until the fall. The north will be hit harder but there are also a number of Communist units in the prosess of being built and a lot of Japanese troops are in the south where they will not help in the north.  Time is also against the Japanese, they must begin to produce ships and aircraft and not just infantry fairly soon and they must also have their marines and other troops ready for the Pacific war by summer of 41. Those troops are no good when far into China. That leaves them only 6 more turns, and 2 are winter, to do what they can in China.

Note that so far they have not gained a single extra resource although 2 may become theirs the coming summer.

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